Who Doesn't Go To Hell?

[WebersHome]

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It is a terrible, awful tragedy that so many people end up in Hell simply because they didn't believe Christ's crucifixion is an adequate retribution for their sins; and also that God is fully agreeable to shredding the indictment He was compiling against them listing all the bad things they ever did, and/or they will ever do, in thought, word, and deed.

• 2Cor 5:19 . . God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ; not counting men's sins against them.

The Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee) which means to take an inventory. Bear with me while I flesh this out a bit.

Rev 20:11-15 depicts an enormous courtroom scene-- sometimes referred to as the great white throne event --wherein books will be opened. The word is plural because there's a book being kept for each individual. Were a redeemed sinner's book to be opened, there would be no entries in so it would appear as if they have never been anything but 100% innocent. For example:

Let's say, hypothetically, that a redeemed Charles Manson is summoned to appear and a bailiff delivers his book to the Judge. Upon examining Charles' book, the Judge would have to acquit Mr. Manson because there would be no entries in his book for the Judge to charge him with.

Now of course many of us from back in the twentieth century know what a degenerate scum bag Charles was in life; but no matter. Were he redeemed, none of Charles' scuminess would be recorded in his book, viz: he would not be required to answer for the gruesome murder of Sharon Tate and her unborn child.

As outrageous, and as an intolerable miscarriage of justice as that may seem; it serves to give a pretty good idea of just how effective Christ's crucifixion is as an adequate retribution for people's sins.
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[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I would say there are only few people who think that Jesus' crucifixion was not enough to pay for their sins.

By far the most people who end up in hell are going there because they don't believe that a God exists in the first place - or think that Jesus is a myth.

 

[mlepfitjw]

Oh thank you Lord Jesus Christ, for being enough. It was so nice to meet him on the life's road nearly 4 years ago or so now. Webster reading your post, it is very good for what you have to say.

I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ crucifixion was most certainly enough to pay for all people sins in the world. The only thing people may lack out here as unbelievers is just belief in God, or the fact that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Only God knows the heart, and we are to love all people, to the best of our ability and try to live at peace with everyone, from what the bible states.

 

[Albion]

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It is a terrible, awful tragedy that so many people end up in Hell simply because they didn't believe Christ's crucifixion is an adequate retribution for their sins; and also that God is fully agreeable to shredding the indictment He was compiling against them listing all the bad things they ever did, and/or they will ever do, in thought, word, and deed.

• 2Cor 5:19 . . God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ; not counting men's sins against them.

The Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee) which means to take an inventory. Bear with me while I flesh this out a bit.

Rev 20:11-15 depicts an enormous courtroom scene-- sometimes referred to as the great white throne event --wherein books will be opened. The word is plural because there's a book being kept for each individual. Were a redeemed sinner's book to be opened, there would be no entries in so it would appear as if they have never been anything but 100% innocent. For example:

Let's say, hypothetically, that a redeemed Charles Manson is summoned to appear and a bailiff delivers his book to the Judge. Upon examining Charles' book, the Judge would have to acquit Mr. Manson because there would be no entries in his book for the Judge to charge him with.

Now of course many of us from back in the twentieth century know what a degenerate scum bag Charles was in life; but no matter. Were he redeemed, none of Charles' scuminess would be recorded in his book, viz: he would not be required to answer for the gruesome murder of Sharon Tate and her unborn child.

As outrageous, and as an intolerable miscarriage of justice as that may seem; it serves to give a pretty good idea of just how effective Christ's crucifixion is as an adequate retribution for people's sins.
_

One thing that ought to be kept in mind is this...

Theological/doctrinal conclusions that are based upon the Book of Revelation need to be approached with care. The contents of that book are the record of a vision. Even John makes that point at the start of it all.

Being that it's a vision, we can profit from its contents, but it's a mistake to take all that imagery as though it were accurate in a literal sense. Yet many people do just that--if it's part of the Bible, they think it's no different from what they read in the Gospels.

 

[Petros2015]

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Now of course many of us from back in the twentieth century know what a degenerate scum bag Charles was in life; but no matter. Were he redeemed, none of Charles' scuminess would be recorded in his book, viz: he would not be required to answer for the gruesome murder of Sharon Tate and her unborn child.
As outrageous, and as an intolerable miscarriage of justice as that may seem
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Only one thing I would point out (and I do agree it seems on the surface like an intolerable miscarriage of justice)...

The justice doesn't necessarily end with the acquittal of "Charles"

(if that even *is* "Charles" anymore - isn't the Christian baptism symbolic of the death of the old man and the beginning of the new? Isn't the Christian walk transformative for those that follow Christ? Doesn't a man receive the Holy Spirit in place of his old dead one?

Luke 11:13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

So... is this still the same "Charles" pre-Christ standing before the books or is this something different? Something that Christ planted and brought to life within "Charles" at the point that they met, that has been growing in the soil of his soul since that time into the Charles that now stands and is acquitted)

...The Judge may also have some things, (good things) for Sharon as well.
"Charles" owes the debt to Sharon (one he can never pay - and is this really "Charles" anyway at this point?)

This Judge is capable of both acquitting AND settling

Don't be mistaken - "Charles" did receive a Death sentence the moment Charles accepted Christ. But what was a death sentence for one was a life sentence for the other.

4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

 

[1213]

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It is a terrible, awful tragedy that so many people end up in Hell simply because they didn't believe Christ's crucifixion is an adequate retribution for their sins; ...
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Sorry, I don’t think that is the case. People go to hell, because of sin/unrighteousness. Unrighteous person could avoid it, by accepting the forgiveness and by becoming righteous. But, if person is not righteous, he will not have the eternal life, but the death.

I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."
John 8:24

I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way.
Luke 13:3

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God."
John 3:19-21

 

[WebersHome]

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Were I the Devil, I would do my utmost best to disprove the resurrection of Jesus Christ's crucified dead body because his crucifixion is only half enough to protect people from the wrath of God. Though his physical body's demise is adequate retribution for people's sins, its death doesn't gain anybody exoneration.

• Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered over to death for our sins, and was restored to life for our justification.

The Greek word translated "justification" is dikaiosis (dik-ah'-yo-sis) which means acquittal; defined as an adjudication of innocence.

People merely forgiven still carry a load of guilt; viz: they have a criminal record. The resurrection of Christ's crucified dead body deletes their record so that on the books, it's as though they've never been anything but 100% innocent.

This clearing of one's guilt that I'm talking about is obtained via the kindness and generosity of God through belief in the resurrection of Christ's crucified dead body. If the Devil can succeed in convincing people that Jesus' crucified body is still dead or, even better yet, make them question whether the man even existed at all; then they will fail to obtain an acquittal, and consequently end up put to death in brimstone when they stand to face justice at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15.
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[Dkh587]

Hell is Sheol, which is the grave.

Everybody goes to Hell/Sheol, the grave, unless you happen to be alive when Christ returns

you are confusing Sheol with Gehenna

People(throughout all time) who trust in God & Messiah & obey them are the ones who will NOT go into Gehenna

 

[Saint Steven]

It is a terrible, awful tragedy that so many people end up in Hell simply because they didn't believe Christ's crucifixion is an adequate retribution for their sins; and also that God is fully agreeable to shredding the indictment He was compiling against them listing all the bad things they ever did, and/or they will ever do, in thought, word, and deed.

Countless billions have gone into the afterlife with no knowledge of Jesus Christ whatsoever. Where do these folks end up in your view?

In essence everyone goes to "hell" according to Jesus.

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

 

[Saint Steven]

Now of course many of us from back in the twentieth century know what a degenerate scum bag Charles was in life; but no matter. Were he redeemed, none of Charles' scuminess would be recorded in his book, viz: he would not be required to answer for the gruesome murder of Sharon Tate and her unborn child.

Interesting that any human could refer to another human as "a degenerate scum bag". Aren't we all in Charles' shoes?

Anyway, I think the atonement was to pay for the consequence of sin (death) for all of humankind rather than for our individual sins.

Brad Jersak's 2015 version of the Gospel in Chairs, originally composed by Fr. Anthony Carbo and borrowed by others like Steve Robinson and Brian Zahnd (who retitled it 'The Beautiful Gospel').

 

[UnpopularOpinion]

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It is a terrible, awful tragedy that so many people end up in Hell simply because they didn't believe Christ's crucifixion is an adequate retribution for their sins; and also that God is fully agreeable to shredding the indictment He was compiling against them listing all the bad things they ever did, and/or they will ever do, in thought, word, and deed.

• 2Cor 5:19 . . God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ; not counting men's sins against them.

The Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee) which means to take an inventory. Bear with me while I flesh this out a bit.

Rev 20:11-15 depicts an enormous courtroom scene-- sometimes referred to as the great white throne event --wherein books will be opened. The word is plural because there's a book being kept for each individual. Were a redeemed sinner's book to be opened, there would be no entries in so it would appear as if they have never been anything but 100% innocent. For example:

Let's say, hypothetically, that a redeemed Charles Manson is summoned to appear and a bailiff delivers his book to the Judge. Upon examining Charles' book, the Judge would have to acquit Mr. Manson because there would be no entries in his book for the Judge to charge him with.

Now of course many of us from back in the twentieth century know what a degenerate scum bag Charles was in life; but no matter. Were he redeemed, none of Charles' scuminess would be recorded in his book, viz: he would not be required to answer for the gruesome murder of Sharon Tate and her unborn child.

As outrageous, and as an intolerable miscarriage of justice as that may seem; it serves to give a pretty good idea of just how effective Christ's crucifixion is as an adequate retribution for people's sins.
_

Your misunderstanding comes from thinking saved people are judged at this Judgement

Christians go to Judgement seat of Christ
at 2nd resurrection of the damned is great White Throne of Judgement

 

[Saint Steven]

• 2Cor 5:19 . . God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ; not counting men's sins against them.

Interesting to note what we see through the bias of our own lens.

You read this verse and then write the post in your OP.

I read this verse and notice that it clearly says that God reconciled THE WORLD to himself in Christ; NOT COUNTING MEN'S SINS AGAINST THEM. --- Is that not what this clearly says.

 

[Petros2015]

This clearing of one's guilt that I'm talking about is obtained via the kindness and generosity of God through belief in the resurrection of Christ's crucified dead body. If the Devil can succeed in convincing people that Jesus' crucified body is still dead or, even better yet, make them question whether the man even existed at all; then they will fail to obtain an acquittal, and consequently end up put to death in brimstone when they stand to face justice at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15.

21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Is "obtaining an acquittal" the goal here?

If a man says "follow me, let me teach and guide you"
Speaks nothing but truth and honesty
Does no evil
Loves with compassion and humility
Shows how to live by the living Spirit and not the written Law
Becomes a threat to the existing authorities simply by speaking Truth
And demonstrating his authority by miracles
Over both diseases
And Sins

9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. "

Which they won't accept even though they know it to be True
Doesn't defend himself against them
"Prophesy! Who hit you?"
And dies crucified with nails through his hands
That's a pretty clear demonstration of the difference between Good and Evil
And the horrendous state of the human condition
and the need for Christ

If He stays dead, that a victory for Evil
But if He doesn't, then He was who He said He was
The Son of God
And that's the victory for Good

This is what it means to say "I believe in the resurrection of Christ."
He doesn't defend himself because the power of Life and Death is in his hands
As well as the throne of judgement
He has NO Fear; None. If he had any fear, it would be for us on our behalf
"Father forgive them, they know not what they do"

But after the Cross
And the Resurrection
We knew what we did
And we knew what He did
And who He was. And IS.
We called His bluff
He wasn't bluffing.
And His offer STILL remained!
And remains
On the table.

So when the next words out of someone's mouth are
"oh good I can obtain an acquittal from judgement by saying I believe in such and such"
... I kinda cringe at that

We say it because we believe it
We don't believe it because we say it
Those are two totally different things.
A person who believes it does more than just say it
They live it.
Through the power of the Holy Spirit
They even CONFESS IT
Through the power of the Holy Spirit

1 Cor 12:13 Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed, and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord:", except by the Holy Spirit.

They die to themselves and come alive to and in Christ.

Don't get me wrong, an acquittal is a necessary part of the process
But He also came so it's clear that we know WHICH SIDE IS WHICH
(God's side and Humanity's side)
And we move over
From one to the other

 

[bling]

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Were I the Devil, I would do my utmost best to disprove the resurrection of Jesus Christ's crucified dead body because his crucifixion is only half enough to protect people from the wrath of God. Though his physical body's demise is adequate retribution for people's sins, its death doesn't gain anybody exoneration.

• Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered over to death for our sins, and was restored to life for our justification.

The Greek word translated "justification" is dikaiosis (dik-ah'-yo-sis) which means acquittal; defined as an adjudication of innocence.

Luke 18: 9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

This verse gives me problems in trying to define “justified before God”. From other scripture we know God really does not like the sin of pride and being proud of one’s own accomplishments, while humility is joyous to God. I do think some men in the Old Testament and this type of man in the parable, would not consider themselves justified before God, yet were. Paul talks a lot about us being justified and how the Jews under the Law could not stand justified (at least by the Law).

What would it take for us to comfortably stand before God feeling justified?

What would it take for a rebellious disobedient child to stand comfortably with his/her father?

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People merely forgiven still carry a load of guilt; viz: they have a criminal record. The resurrection of Christ's crucified dead body deletes their record so that on the books, it's as though they've never been anything but 100% innocent.

This clearing of one's guilt that I'm talking about is obtained via the kindness and generosity of God through belief in the resurrection of Christ's crucified dead body. If the Devil can succeed in convincing people that Jesus' crucified body is still dead or, even better yet, make them question whether the man even existed at all; then they will fail to obtain an acquittal, and consequently end up put to death in brimstone when they stand to face justice at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15.
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This is really a question about the huge topic of atonement.

Do you understand the difference between being “punished” and being “disciplined” since both are “just”?

Dr. Dobson would say: “You discipline your children and never punish your children”.

Think about this:

There is a, one of a kind, Tiffany vase on your parent’s mantel that has been handed down by your great grandmother. You, as a young person, get angry with your parents and smash the vase. You are later sorry about it and repent and your loving parent can easily forgive you. Since this was not your first rebellious action your father, in an act of Love, collects every little piece of the vase and you willingly work together with your father hours each night for a month painstakingly gluing the vase back together. The vase is returned to the mantel to be kept as a show piece, but according to Antique Road Show, it is worthless. Working with your father helped you develop a much stronger relationship, comfort in being around him and appreciation for his Love.

Was your father fair/just and would others see this as being fair treatment? Did this “punishment” help resolve the issue?

Was restitution made or was reconciliation made and would you feel comfortable/ justified standing by your father in the future?

Suppose after smashing the vase, repenting and forgiveness, your older brother says he will work with your father putting the vase together, so you can keep up with your social life. Would this scenario allow you to stand comfortable and justified by your father?

Suppose Jesus the magician waved his hands over the smashed vase and restored it perfectly to the previous condition, so there is really very little for you to be forgiven of or for you to do. Would this scenario allow you to stand comfortable and justified by your father?

What are the benefits of being lovingly disciplined?

Suppose it is not you that breaks the vase but your neighbor breaks into your house because he does not like your family being so nice and smashes the Tiffany vase, but he is caught on a security camera. Your father goes to your neighbor with the box of pieces and offers to do the same thing with him as he offered to do with you, but the neighbor refuses. Your father explains: everything is caught on camera and he will be fined and go to jail, but the neighbor, although sorry about being caught, still refuses. The neighbor loses all he has and spends 10 years in jail. So was the neighbor fairly disciplined or fairly punished?

How does the neighbor’s punishment equal your discipline and how is it not equal?

Was the neighbor forgiven and if not why not?

 

[Petros2015]

Countless billions have gone into the afterlife with no knowledge of Jesus Christ whatsoever. Where do these folks end up in your view?

One time I was talking with a man who served as a Sniper in the middle east decades ago.
"I sent those people to hell," he said
"No," I said. "You sent them to Christ. Christ will decide if he likes the look of them or not. It might be the first time they have ever met."

John 5:22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

Reading some verses again this morning, I wonder if "Father forgive them, they know not what they do" might have applied to more than the soldiers who were engaged in crucifying him at the time. I feel it at least gives us some hint as to Christ's attitude as it pertains to the question above.

 

[WebersHome]

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I read this verse and notice that it clearly says that God reconciled THE WORLD to himself in Christ; NOT COUNTING MEN'S SINS AGAINST THEM. --- Is that not what this clearly says.

According to Romans 4:1-25, the blessing spoken of in 1Cor 5:19 is limited to men of faith rather than extending to all men.
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[WebersHome]

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According to Romans 4:1-25, the blessing spoken of in 1Cor 5:19 is limited to men of faith rather than extending to all men.

That's talking about a very large number of people currently in grave danger of the sum of all fears. Bear with me while I flesh this out.

According to my sources, as of mid 2020 there were approximately:

50,000 . . . . . . . . Scientologists
16,500,000 . . . . .Mormons
8,200,000 . . . . . .Practicing Jehovah's Witnesses
8,531,000 . . . . . .Baha'i
545,584,000 . . . .Buddhists
468,411,000 . . . .Chinese Folk Religionists
8,606,000 . . . . . .Confucianists
269,498,000 . . . .Ethnic Religionists
1,062,595,000 . . .Hindus
6,135,000 . . . . . .Jains
14,779,000 . . . . .Jews
1,893,345,000 . . Muslims
64,549,000 . . . . .New Religionists
2,788,000 . . . . . .Shintoists
28,000,000 . . . . .Sikhs
14,851,000 . . . . .Spiritists
9,078,000 . . . . . .Taoists
1,757,433,000 . . .Non Religious/Atheists/Agnostics

The grand total of just those categories is 5,710,522,000

If those figures are in the ball park, and if classical Christianity is the truth; then at least 74% of the earth's current population of 7.707 billion people are on a road to Hell; and no doubt some of those are people we know: our friends, our loved ones, and our associates.

NOTE: Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are Christians in accordance with Webster's definition; but not in the classical sense.

Joseph Smith's movement is a variation; in other words: there's some classical Christianity in Mormonism, but classical Christianity comprises only a portion of Mormonism. The rest of it is extreme, to say the least.

Neither do Jehovah's Witnesses qualify as Christians in the classical sense. Charles Taze Russell's movement is a variation too. There's some classical Christianity in the Watchtower Society's doctrines, but classical Christianity comprises only a portion of Russell's doctrines; and his slant on it is very peculiar.
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[Saint Steven]

Reading some verses again this morning, I wonder if "Father forgive them, they know not what they do" might have applied to more than the soldiers who were engaged in crucifying him at the time. I feel it at least gives us some hint as to Christ's attitude as it pertains to the question above.

That's a great insight.
Who was the "them" in the verse that put Jesus on a cross? Was it the Romans? Was it the Jewish religious leaders? Was it the Jews who cried out, "Crucify him, crucify him!" Or was it all of us? For whom was Christ put on the cross?

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Saint Steven]

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According to Romans 4:1-25, the blessing spoken of in 1Cor 5:19 is limited to men of faith rather than extending to all men.
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So are you saying that God predestined everyone outside of the special chosen group to suffer eternal conscious torment? If so, what a horrible thing to infer on our loving heavenly Father.

What did Jesus teach us is godly behavior toward OUR enemies? Would he then do the opposite? What you seem to be claiming makes God worse than a pagan, or a tax collector. (traitor)

Matthew 5:43-48
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Saint Steven]

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According to Romans 4:1-25, the blessing spoken of in 1Cor 5:19 is limited to men of faith rather than extending to all men.
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What does the verse in your OP clearly say? (reconciling the world to himself)

• 2Cor 5:19 . . God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ; not counting men's sins against them.

Saint Steven said: ↑
I read this verse and notice that it clearly says that God reconciled THE WORLD to himself in Christ; NOT COUNTING MEN'S SINS AGAINST THEM. --- Is that not what this clearly says.