Answer me this question.

[JohnDB]

Caleb is first mentioned in Nu 13:6, from the tribe of Judah.

I'm not familiar with what you are talking about. Would you bring me up to speed.

His father was adopted into the tribe of Judah...he wasn't exactly an Israeli except by his father's adoption. His family was Canaanites by birth. Possibly Midianites or Edomites.
Caleb's valley is still known to this day outside of Hebron.
Othoniel...first Judge in Israel in the book of Judges is his cousin/nephew...can't remember.
"Who has a heart like Caleb?" Is a very famous quote.

The dude is a hero of mine. Never really fit in with the others.

But also from the fall of Jericho you had Joshua marry a prostitute named Rahab... from which came the promised Messiah.

Moses also married a cushite woman. The cushites were considered "barbarians" amongst the whole of Egyptian society including the Israelites. Of course they flung a fit about it bet if Moses didn't marry her she wouldn't have gotten married at all. No one wanted her.

Inclusion of the gentiles was planned all along. Never wasn't part of the plan.

 

[Clare73]

His father was adopted into the tribe of Judah...he wasn't exactly an Israeli except by his father's adoption. His family was Canaanites by birth. Possibly Midianites or Edomites.
Caleb's valley is still known to this day outside of Hebron.
Othoniel...first Judge in Israel in the book of Judges is his cousin/nephew...can't remember.
"Who has a heart like Caleb?" Is a very famous quote.

Caleb means "bold, impetuous."

The dude is a hero of mine. Never really fit in with the others.

But also from the fall of Jericho you had Joshua marry a prostitute named Rahab... from which came the promised Messiah.

Moses also married a cushite woman. The cushites were considered "barbarians" amongst the whole of Egyptian society including the Israelites. Of course they flung a fit about it bet if Moses didn't marry her she wouldn't have gotten married at all. No one wanted her.

Inclusion of the gentiles was planned all along. Never wasn't part of the plan.

Thanks. . .yes inclusion of the Gentiles was planned all along.

I may have caused some confusion by referring to them as unclean.
They were unclean because they did not follow the Mosaic law.
Those are the ones the Jews did not mix it up with on a regular basis.

However, the proselytes--those mentioned above, including Caleb, etc.--were not unclean
because they followed the Mosaic law.

 

[atpollard]

Do you really believe you are supposed to be on a public forum, limiting God's Grace to your theological idea that The Cross and Jesus's blood are not offered as : John 3:16?

wake up.

You are speaking foolishness.

• I did not write “whosoever believes” in John 3:16, the Apostle did.
• I am not ignoring the rest of John 3 and John 6 and John 10 to build a theology on one verse that is contradicted by many other verses.
• I have no power to expand or limit the grace of God ... God is God and I am not.
• My thoughts on John 3:16 is that it means exactly what it says ... no less and no more. God has a love for all and a salvation for whosoever believes.

 

[JohnDB]

Caleb means "bold, impetuous."

Well....you can go there as a kindness.

But it's actually an animal. A "little yappy dog" is the literal translation of the word.

 

[Clare73]

Well....you can go there as a kindness.

But it's actually an animal. A "little yappy dog" is the literal translation of the word.

Who are bold and impetuous. . .

 

[Guojing]

But the gospel is about Jesus' atoning death for the remittance of sin.
Where does that death take place in your understanding of Zec 8?

Jesus said he came to earth to die as a ransom for the sins of many (Mt 20:28; 1Ti 2:6; Heb 9:15).
The NT reveals that it was never God's plan that the advent of Messiah was to live with them in the promised land:

Ac 4:28 - "They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen."
Ac 2:23 - "This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge."

In Scripture, God doesn't do "Plan B". . .in a millennium or otherwise. . .it's always and only Plan A, because Plan A is always accomplished (Ac 4:28, 2:23), as was this Plan A on the cross.

Therefore, Zec 8 (not being about a non-existent plan of Messiah's advent in 3 A.D. to live with them in the promised land, but being about another event)
which other event fulfilled Zec 8 some 400 years before the advent of Messiah; i.e.,
the return from exile and the restoration of the Temple, the walls, revival breaking out, confession of sins, pledge to follow the Law, worship, and obedience,
where a response to that event as described in Zec 8:23 could be expected in light of the joy, celebration and feasting emanating from Jerusalem at the tme.

You asked "Where does that death take place in your understanding of Zec 8?"

Its in my point 2, remember what Peter said to Israel in Acts 3:19-21?

Its not a plan B, God already knew Israel the nation would reject his Son, and hence opening the doors to Gentiles thru the fall of Israel (Ephesians 3:9).

Do you believe in a future 1000 year millennial reign of Christ sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem?

 

[Clare73]

You asked "Where does that death take place in your understanding of Zec 8?"

Its in my point 2, remember what Peter said to Israel in Acts 3:19-21?

1. Israel the nation accepts Christ as the Son of God (John 20:31)
2. Jesus returns to forgive the sins of Israel and live with them in the promised land in Jerusalem (Acts 3:19-21)
3. Every Jew becomes a priests to bring gentiles to worship in Jerusalem (Zechariah 8:23)

1. It's not a plan B, God already knew Israel the nation would reject his Son, and hence opening the doors to Gentiles thru the fall of Israel (Ephesians 3:9)

That is confusing to me. If the plan was for
1) Israel to accept Christ,
2) Christ to forgive their sins and live with them in the promised land, and
3) the Jews would bring the world to God,
and none of that happened, but a whole other plan was put into place,
why is that not Plan A and Plan B?

In Ac 3:19-21, Peter exhorts them to repent (v.19) and tells them what they can expect if they do:
1) pardon of their sins (v.19) and
2) the comfort of Christ's coming (vv. 20-21); i.e.,
God will send at the end of this age the same Jesus that was preached to them (v.20), and they crucified,
they are not to wait for another time and another Messiah to be sent to them, this is the time.
There is no sending Jesus a second time, to the Jews or anyone else.
Rather, Jesus must remain in heaven until the time to restore everything (v.21).

That will be at the resurrection (at the redemption of our bodies, Ro 8:23) at the end of time, when everything is restored in the new creation (2Co 5:17; Gal 6:15), for which the whole creation, as well as those who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, have been groaning (Ro 8:22-23) in longing.

Do you believe in a future 1000 year millennial reign of Christ sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem?

I don't see a time frame stated in Mt 19:28.
I see it as the renewal in the new creation (2Co 5:17; Gal 6:15) at the end of time, for which the whole creation and the redeemed have been groaning (Ro 8:22-23).

I do know that it will have its complete fulfillment at the second coming, when the saints in general, especially the 12 apostles, will judge the world as assistants with Christ in the judgment of the great day.

 

[Guojing]

In Ac 3:19-21, Peter exhorts them to repent (v.19) and tells them what they can expect if they do:
1) pardon of their sins (v.19) and
2) the comfort of Christ's coming (vv. 20-21); i.e.,
God will send at the end of this age the same Jesus that was preached to them (v.20), and they crucified,
they are not to wait for another time and another Messiah to be sent to them, this is the time.
When Jesus comes again, it will not be a sending of him to the Jews, but it will be at the end of time,
when God comes to restore everything (v.21) in the new creation (2Co 5:17; Gal 6:15) and eternity.

There is a reason why Jesus's feet will touch down on the Mount of Olives, during his return. (Zechariah 14:4)

If Jesus is not returning for the Jews, it does not make sense that it will be at that location.

 

[Clare73]

There is a reason why Jesus's feet will touch down on the Mount of Olives, during his return. (Zechariah 14:4)

If Jesus is not returning for the Jews, it does not make sense that it will be at that location.

Jesus will return at the end of time for all the saints, Jews and Gentiles alike.

That is the teaching of Peter (Ac 3:19-21) as well as of Paul (2Th 1:6-10, 2:1-8),
who received his revelation from Jesus Christ personally (v.1) in the third heaven (2Co 12:1-5).

 

[JacksBratt]

Question, if God promised Abraham (let's just forget that God had to bring Abraham out of unbelief to begin with) descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky how did he acckmplish his election based on forseen belief?

Why didn't he choose Israel this way? Because God said "You are my chosen people not due to any characteristics or qualifications of your own. You are mine" in fact most of Israel doesn't believe in or follow God. So how can God save a people as vast as the stars in the sky if it is based on forseen belief? Do we honestly think billions of people believe on their own after hearing the gospel? Do we honestly think that there isn't some kind of unconditional election going on here? Since God chose Israel unconditonally? Why did God's method of Election change for the gentiles? Please explain.

God didn't choose Israel because they were perfect. He chose them because they would get the job done. Look what they can do to a desert...

 

[disciple Clint]

They associate with gentiles after the latter became Jews? (Acts 11:1)

Maybe this will help answer your question if not let me know. Non-Israelite Followers of YHWH in the Old Testament

 

[Guojing]

Jesus will return at the end of time for all the saints, Jews and Gentiles alike.
That is the teaching of Paul, who received his revelation in the third heaven (2Co 12:1-5).

The time for gentiles to be saved is now, not during the Tribulation.

Paul teach us to look forward to the Rapture, not to the Anti Christ

 

[disciple Clint]

Agreed. . .there were proselytes to Judaism, but that's not the same thing as regularly mixing it up with the unclean Gentiles to tell them about God.

The Jewish disposition toward Gentiles is seen in the NT, where Peter and the Jews considered them unclean and a source of defilement, requiring that the remedy of cleansing ordinances be applied whenever they came in contact with them.

Israel was not asked by God to have anything to do with Gentiles. It was just the opposite. Exposure to them was not only defiling, but a temptation to adopt Gentile ways, which was always a problem with Israel until their return from exile.

What would you consider the ministry of Paul?

 

[Guojing]

Maybe this will help answer your question if not let me know. Non-Israelite Followers of YHWH in the Old Testament

Jews were not allow to inter marry with gentiles in time past.

So yes, there was physical separation then

 

[disciple Clint]

Jews were not allow to inter marry with gentiles in time past.

So yes, there was physical separation then

But it did happen, remember Ruth was a Moabite, there are other examples

 

[Guojing]

But it did happen, remember Ruth was a Moabite, there are other examples

yes so is Rahab. As a gentile, you had to become a Jew in order to be included in the covenant, in time past (Ephesians 2:11-12)

 

[Eilat]

You are speaking foolishness.

• I did not write “whosoever believes” in John 3:16, the Apostle did.
• 
  
• My thoughts on John 3:16 is that it means exactly what it says ... no less and no more. God has a love for all and a salvation for whosoever believes.

You need to understand that the bible is written down by writers who are led of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.
So, God's Spirit is on the page........
Think of it like this...... The bible is Spiritual Dictation.......God giving it, and men writing it down.

So, in John 3:16, it says that God gave Jesus to "whosoever"....that is a universal offer, to the WORLD.
"for God so loved the WORLD"..

= ALL

" ALL who call on the Name of Jesus , shall be saved".

All means All.

 

[Guojing]

You need to understand that the bible is written down by writers who are led of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.
So, God's Spirit is on the page........
Think of it like this...... The bible is Spiritual Dictation.......God giving it, and men writing it down.

So, in John 3:16, it says that God gave Jesus to "whosoever"....that is a universal offer, to the WORLD.
"for God so loved the WORLD"..

= ALL

" ALL who call on the Name of Jesus , shall be saved".

All means All.

So what do you think Jesus meant in Matthew 15:24?

 

[JohnDB]

But it did happen, remember Ruth was a Moabite, there are other examples

Ruth also had that great line that they wrote into a song...

But there's the other side of the subject...
Where all the Jewish men were told to send their gentile wives and children packing. (Ezra)

 

[Clare73]

The time for gentiles to be saved is now, not during the Tribulation.

Paul teach us to look forward to the Rapture, not to the Anti Christ

Actually, Paul is telling them that the rapture (2Th 2:1) in the day of the Lord has not yet come, and
it will not come until the apostasy and the man of lawlessness is revealed (v.3).