Family/Friends who know the Gospel but don't believe it?

nolidad

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 2, 2006
6,762
1,269
69
onj this planet
✟221,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What do you do about those family and friends. They have an academic understanding of what the Gospel is but what the bible says is simply not enough for them. Personal testimonies are not enough for them.
My sister understands the gospel, she just doesn't believe it. She's looking for some life changing personal experience that would actually make her believe. She's not opposed to Christianity or the gospel, but she just doesn't know what she actually believes.
I pray for her, because it's pretty apparent that God actually has to give her faith, because simply teaching her doesn't do it. She's been taught by many people for decades, including myself and her mother in law, but it just doesn't catch her.
My mother... well she's not HOSTILE to Christianity in that she knows I believe it and is fine with that. But she thinks it's just a guidelines for moral living, and "I don't need Jesus to be a good person" I have tried to explain that's not how it works that there ARE no "good persons" and that she needs a savior...
but between catholic teaching from a lot of my family in older generations (no offense to those who are Catholic but actually put their faith in Jesus Christ) for works based salvation and her disliking many prominent false teachers in the world like your Kenneth Copelands and Benny Hinns of the world.. it's like a wall gets put between what she takes in from teaching and her mind. She's blocked it off. She also doesn't like when pastors get passionate in their preaching and say things about being "blood bought" and "covered in the blood of Jesus" or talking about the power of the holy spirit, etc. She agrees with the moral teaching, she believes Jesus was a real person and a good teacher about how to live life morally.. but the most essential parts of the gospel she just refuses. She's stuck on it being her works and she's been led into new age and eastern mysticism and pantheism and universalism by my father when she was younger.. she combines that with the works based salvation of Catholicism to form her core beliefs. It's scary because I believe that is ultimately what the one world religion of the end times will be like, works salvation, combining eastern mysticism and catholicism, seeing Jesus as some sort of Enlightened Zen Buddhist teacher, with an abstract creator rather than a personal creator.
A very vivid dream I had weeks ago, basically set my sister's fate as uncertain and my mother as utterly rejecting Jesus.
So I don't really know what to do. my sister is looking for something that no human can give her, and my mother just rejects it and I'm afraid is on the path to believing the strong delusion (the age of aquarius).
all I can do is pray.
but so far that prayer has been unanswered.


Just keep loving on them and praying for them. And when God tells you, remind them of His deep abiding love.

YOu have shared the gospel, so don't keep repeating it every time. Live it now and when the door is wide open tell them hos much He loves them. don't beat them over the head with the gospel.

this is the whole sum of what we can do. and remember if you care this much about their immortal souls, how much more does god!
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
10,736
4,737
59
Mississippi
✟251,747.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
What do you do about those family and friends. They have an academic understanding of what the Gospel is but what the bible says is simply not enough for them. Personal testimonies are not enough for them.
My sister understands the gospel, she just doesn't believe it. She's looking for some life changing personal experience that would actually make her believe. She's not opposed to Christianity or the gospel, but she just doesn't know what she actually believes.
I pray for her, because it's pretty apparent that God actually has to give her faith, because simply teaching her doesn't do it. She's been taught by many people for decades, including myself and her mother in law, but it just doesn't catch her.
My mother... well she's not HOSTILE to Christianity in that she knows I believe it and is fine with that. But she thinks it's just a guidelines for moral living, and "I don't need Jesus to be a good person" I have tried to explain that's not how it works that there ARE no "good persons" and that she needs a savior...
but between catholic teaching from a lot of my family in older generations (no offense to those who are Catholic but actually put their faith in Jesus Christ) for works based salvation and her disliking many prominent false teachers in the world like your Kenneth Copelands and Benny Hinns of the world.. it's like a wall gets put between what she takes in from teaching and her mind. She's blocked it off. She also doesn't like when pastors get passionate in their preaching and say things about being "blood bought" and "covered in the blood of Jesus" or talking about the power of the holy spirit, etc. She agrees with the moral teaching, she believes Jesus was a real person and a good teacher about how to live life morally.. but the most essential parts of the gospel she just refuses. She's stuck on it being her works and she's been led into new age and eastern mysticism and pantheism and universalism by my father when she was younger.. she combines that with the works based salvation of Catholicism to form her core beliefs. It's scary because I believe that is ultimately what the one world religion of the end times will be like, works salvation, combining eastern mysticism and catholicism, seeing Jesus as some sort of Enlightened Zen Buddhist teacher, with an abstract creator rather than a personal creator.
A very vivid dream I had weeks ago, basically set my sister's fate as uncertain and my mother as utterly rejecting Jesus.
So I don't really know what to do. my sister is looking for something that no human can give her, and my mother just rejects it and I'm afraid is on the path to believing the strong delusion (the age of aquarius).
all I can do is pray.
but so far that prayer has been unanswered.

Explain to your sister clear and easy how to receive Gods free gift of Eternal Life.

And that is to tell her to believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah from the prophecies of the Tanakh and trust in The Messiah for the free gift of Gods Eternal Life.

Use the Gospel of John to show by the 8 signs (miracles) recorded in John that Jesus did. That He proves He is the only begotten Son of God.
 
Upvote 0

DiscipleHeLovesToo

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Nov 13, 2010
2,724
529
✟77,537.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Jesus couln't care less for money though. The same as the apostles, i don't see anyone of them trying to get rich, less with the offerings of other christians, 'having a roof and food and clothes stay contempt' says the bible, so those people who take money from the church to live in mansions, i don't know what giong on there, if you get rich working thats perfectly fine, you can even help others with your wealth and i think God could even bless you to be rich, abraham/job etc were rich.
Also i don't know for certain, but even unbelievers say keneth copeland rubs them the wrong way/looks like he has a demon or something... sorry but he gives me the creeps.

debate between 'advisors' is not allowed in the Requests for Christian Advice Forum, but i will answer you once - KCM is one of the largest non-denominational ministries, and is regularly audited - what proof do you have that Kenneth Copeland took money from 'the offerings of other Christians'? or are you just making assumptions based on rumors you've heard and accusing him of this without cause?
 
Upvote 0

SANTOSO

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2020
2,227
1,183
47
Jakarta
✟236,770.00
Country
Indonesia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You got it a little bit mixed up. It's my mother that has dabbled in new age and pantheism.
My sister.. doesn't have any real beliefs. She's agnostic.
If you want to see it as the parable of the sower...
my mother is the wayside where the seed is instantly eaten by the birds.
my sister is the soil choked with weeds. she concerns herself mostly with this life, and doesn't really deal with matters of eternity.
I am more hopeful for my sister than my mother.
My sister just needs a personal experience with God, and she'll believe.
My mother... I don't see her believing until we have literal prophecy fulfillment. I mean Damascus being completely and utterly destroyed in a day (Isaiah 17). Russia, Turkey, and Iran invading Israel and Israel winning the war despite having no allied help. (Ezekiel 38 and 39). I need to be able to point to things like that being true so she'll believe the rest of the bible. Anything she does not see happening exactly as it is in scripture, will just make her say "well you can apply those prophecies to whatever you want since they're so vague"
Dear Jamdoc,
Sorry for the mix up. I understand the challenge you have both your sister and mother. I understand your frustration that you face. I used to be despondent on both of my parents’ unbelief despite what I say with good intents. They have been stubborn and held unbelief for a decade, too. My sister never stop praying for them. Two years ago, both of them accept Christ. My father have read the whole bible and start reading the second round. My mother continuously sing daily and pray daily. Now they both have a community of believers as their friends. Nothing is impossible with God.

Don’t lose heart and take courage in God.
Seek more understanding what hinder prayer and abide in His will.

He knows what is in your heart. Have faith in Christ Jesus, the great High Priest.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,503
2,336
43
Helena
✟207,423.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Explain to your sister clear and easy how to receive Gods free gift of Eternal Life.

And that is to tell her to believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah from the prophecies of the Tanakh and trust in The Messiah for the free gift of Gods Eternal Life.

Use the Gospel of John to show by the 8 signs (miracles) recorded in John that Jesus did. That He proves He is the only begotten Son of God.

That doesn't work with her, because she doesn't believe the bible to be real. Nothing has convinced her that any of it is real.
My mom smiles and nods when I tried to use Isaiah 53 to show that Jesus was predicted 700 years before He was born. She thinks things in it had to have been written after the fact is the problem.
That's why she'd need to see literal prophecy fulfillment in our time, in a way that it couldn't have been written after the fact.
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: AJL
Upvote 0

HappyHope

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2019
643
523
New Mexico
✟54,344.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What do you do about those family and friends. They have an academic understanding of what the Gospel is but what the bible says is simply not enough for them. Personal testimonies are not enough for them.
My sister understands the gospel, she just doesn't believe it. She's looking for some life changing personal experience that would actually make her believe. She's not opposed to Christianity or the gospel, but she just doesn't know what she actually believes.
I pray for her, because it's pretty apparent that God actually has to give her faith, because simply teaching her doesn't do it. She's been taught by many people for decades, including myself and her mother in law, but it just doesn't catch her.
My mother... well she's not HOSTILE to Christianity in that she knows I believe it and is fine with that. But she thinks it's just a guidelines for moral living, and "I don't need Jesus to be a good person" I have tried to explain that's not how it works that there ARE no "good persons" and that she needs a savior...
but between catholic teaching from a lot of my family in older generations (no offense to those who are Catholic but actually put their faith in Jesus Christ) for works based salvation and her disliking many prominent false teachers in the world like your Kenneth Copelands and Benny Hinns of the world.. it's like a wall gets put between what she takes in from teaching and her mind. She's blocked it off. She also doesn't like when pastors get passionate in their preaching and say things about being "blood bought" and "covered in the blood of Jesus" or talking about the power of the holy spirit, etc. She agrees with the moral teaching, she believes Jesus was a real person and a good teacher about how to live life morally.. but the most essential parts of the gospel she just refuses. She's stuck on it being her works and she's been led into new age and eastern mysticism and pantheism and universalism by my father when she was younger.. she combines that with the works based salvation of Catholicism to form her core beliefs. It's scary because I believe that is ultimately what the one world religion of the end times will be like, works salvation, combining eastern mysticism and catholicism, seeing Jesus as some sort of Enlightened Zen Buddhist teacher, with an abstract creator rather than a personal creator.
A very vivid dream I had weeks ago, basically set my sister's fate as uncertain and my mother as utterly rejecting Jesus.
So I don't really know what to do. my sister is looking for something that no human can give her, and my mother just rejects it and I'm afraid is on the path to believing the strong delusion (the age of aquarius).
all I can do is pray.
but so far that prayer has been unanswered.
Sorry to hear this. You have a heart to reach your family which is excellent. They sound comfortable in their respective situations/belief systems. Shame about our sins drives many to authentic faith. Perhaps your family is generally moral comparatively speaking and do not feel the weight of their sins. How a belief system deals with sin is key. As we know being "good" is not good enough. It's Jesus or nothing. "Good" will never be good enough. The standard is absolute perfection (through our Savior) for God's Kingdom.

I'm no apologist and I scored the lowest in my graduate evangelism class in college. The only thing I can think of to give you a better opening with your loved ones is to ask them about how they deal with their personal sins problems. Authentic Christianity trumps every other belief system in how it handles the sin problem. (Plus, it is real. :amen:) People tend to recognize they sin even if they pretend not to know. They still know. Deep down we all know. Only when recognizing our sins does Jesus' offer of complete forgiveness through his grace and our faith really resonate. They gotta feel their hopeless sin situation before accepting the solution.

I have family in a similar boat. They know Gospel. They go to church. The get feel-goods about themselves and are fans of Team Church on Sundays but it does not go much further. They have a sense of social belonging and a sense of personal warm fuzzy about their lives but would never consider changing their lives. Why should they? They have everything already, right?

I wonder if all the positive encouraging churchy feel-goods are blinding people to how utterly sinful we truly are. We a mess. A big mess. We need Jesus. Daily. Hourly. Until we can see our pitiful state, we can't walk in authentic faith leaning on our only hope with deep tenacity. Saying a prayer the blinders come off of your family and mine!

((Background music for reading this post: The Church Clap)) :clap:
 
  • Like
Reactions: SANTOSO
Upvote 0

Roy Taylor

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.
Apr 15, 2020
70
40
Harrisburg
Visit site
✟24,066.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
1. They have an academic understanding of what the Gospel is but what the bible says is simply not enough for them.

2. My sister understands the gospel, she just doesn't believe it.

3. She's been taught by many people for decades, including myself and her mother in law, but it just doesn't catch her.
4. My mother... well she's not HOSTILE to Christianity in that she knows I believe it and is fine with that. But she thinks it's just a guidelines for moral living, and "I don't need Jesus to be a good person" I have tried to explain that's not how it works that there ARE no "good persons" and that she needs a savior...
5. So I don't really know what to do. all I can do is pray.but so far that prayer has been unanswered.
Yes it is important to pray. But if you want your family to be saved, I truly think we as believers need to repent. Seeking God with all of our heart. Not half a heart and the other half seeking things in this life ( pleasures, entertainment, building a business, building a ministry with your own hands, idols, movies, television watching, greed, making a name for yourself, trying to look cool, all is lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life). For those who practice these things will not see the kingdom of God themselves. We need to have a fear of God. We are to be one with Christ. As He did in the world, we need to do. That is what being one. We need to be the branch in the vine. If we are not in the vine, we will not produce much fruit. If any at all.

Remember...James 5:16...The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. That means when you are walking one with Jesus, God will hear your prayer and your prayer has more weight with him.
John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Also remember this scripture...John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
You see this a lot in John. You, nor your friends and family,didn't choose God. God chose you. He might not have chosen your family or friends. But reading scripture there are examples of people like Moses who were able to persuade God. These are people who were righteous in God's eyes. And their prayers were able to save people or themselves.

LIKE I ALWAYS SAY, IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO READ YOUR WHOLE ENTIRE BIBLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN ALL THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. One chapter a day as the least. Study to show yourself approved. We are sanctified by the truth and the truth is the Word. And we also have to walk as he walked. Walk in righteousness. Putting yourself to death (meaning your fleshly ways) Walk in the Spirit and you won't fulfill the deeds of the flesh. Take all ungodly thought captive in the obedience of Jesus. Put on the full armor of God. Amen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lg2000
Upvote 0

marc b

Active Member
Nov 2, 2020
139
145
60
Ottawa, Ontario
✟18,046.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Do not give up and keep praying for your family, putting always your trust in God and the process He has for your family. He did promise that when we believe in the Lord, you and "your household will be saved". Our salvation was never for us alone. All it takes is just one in a household for Him to have a toehold to start bringing others into his fold. It's quite similar to how a believing wife will eventually sanctify an unbelieving husband.

You belong to God now and you are the majority, because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. It only takes one of us, to stomp the rest of them. It might not be immediate, it might even take until their death bed when they begin to sense the darkness creeping, that the light you shone will become desirable and seeds you planted will cause them to call on the name of the Lord. But never give up, always hold that promise of God that "you and your household will be saved".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jamdoc
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,503
2,336
43
Helena
✟207,423.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Yes it is important to pray. But if you want your family to be saved, I truly think we as believers need to repent. Seeking God with all of our heart. Not half a heart and the other half seeking things in this life ( pleasures, entertainment, building a business, building a ministry with your own hands, idols, movies, television watching, greed, making a name for yourself, trying to look cool, all is lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life). For those who practice these things will not see the kingdom of God themselves. We need to have a fear of God. We are to be one with Christ. As He did in the world, we need to do. That is what being one. We need to be the branch in the vine. If we are not in the vine, we will not produce much fruit. If any at all.

Remember...James 5:16...The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. That means when you are walking one with Jesus, God will hear your prayer and your prayer has more weight with him.
John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Also remember this scripture...John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
You see this a lot in John. You, nor your friends and family,didn't choose God. God chose you. He might not have chosen your family or friends. But reading scripture there are examples of people like Moses who were able to persuade God. These are people who were righteous in God's eyes. And their prayers were able to save people or themselves.

LIKE I ALWAYS SAY, IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO READ YOUR WHOLE ENTIRE BIBLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN ALL THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. One chapter a day as the least. Study to show yourself approved. We are sanctified by the truth and the truth is the Word. And we also have to walk as he walked. Walk in righteousness. Putting yourself to death (meaning your fleshly ways) Walk in the Spirit and you won't fulfill the deeds of the flesh. Take all ungodly thought captive in the obedience of Jesus. Put on the full armor of God. Amen.

On effectual prayer, Jesus actually gave the example of even the publican pounding his chest and saying "God be merciful to me a sinner" (Luke 18:9-14). So.. sometimes it's not about having a perfect walk, sometimes it's about being humble and recognizing the failings in your walk. 1 John 1:8-9
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
10,736
4,737
59
Mississippi
✟251,747.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
That doesn't work with her, because she doesn't believe the bible to be real. Nothing has convinced her that any of it is real.
My mom smiles and nods when I tried to use Isaiah 53 to show that Jesus was predicted 700 years before He was born. She thinks things in it had to have been written after the fact is the problem.
That's why she'd need to see literal prophecy fulfillment in our time, in a way that it couldn't have been written after the fact.

So what has caused your sister to believe the Bible to not be real.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Cis.jd

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2015
3,613
1,484
New York, NY
✟140,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
She isn't a Christian at all. She knows OF Him but she does know know Him. She outright thinks she doesn't need Him.
and I don't want to get into a Catholic vs Christianity theology debate. So don't go there.

She does. This line right here "Catholic vs Christianity theology debate" already spells how much knowledge you lack about christianity, and how you do need to learn good theology.

It's really you who does not "know know" him.. not the other way around.
 
Upvote 0

SANTOSO

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2020
2,227
1,183
47
Jakarta
✟236,770.00
Country
Indonesia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That doesn't work with her, because she doesn't believe the bible to be real. Nothing has convinced her that any of it is real.
My mom smiles and nods when I tried to use Isaiah 53 to show that Jesus was predicted 700 years before He was born. She thinks things in it had to have been written after the fact is the problem.
That's why she'd need to see literal prophecy fulfillment in our time, in a way that it couldn't have been written after the fact.
Have you considered this prophecy:

Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by. -Isaiah 26:20
For behold, the LORD is coming out from his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, and the earth will disclose the blood shed on it, and will no more cover its slain. -Isaiah 26:21

What do you think ?
 
Upvote 0

Eilat

Active Member
Dec 17, 2020
210
70
46
Netanya
✟4,286.00
Country
Israel
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What do you do about those family and friends. They have an academic understanding of what the Gospel is but what the bible says is simply not enough for them. Personal testimonies are not enough for them.
My sister understands the gospel, she just doesn't believe it. She's looking for some life changing personal experience that would actually make her believe. She's not opposed to Christianity or the gospel, but she just doesn't know what she actually believes.
I pray for her, because it's pretty apparent that God actually has to give her faith, because simply teaching her doesn't do it. She's been taught by many people for decades, including myself and her mother in law, but it just doesn't catch her.
My mother... well she's not HOSTILE to Christianity in that she knows I believe it and is fine with that. But she thinks it's just a guidelines for moral living, and "I don't need Jesus to be a good person" I have tried to explain that's not how it works that there ARE no "good persons" and that she needs a savior...
but between catholic teaching from a lot of my family in older generations (no offense to those who are Catholic but actually put their faith in Jesus Christ) for works based salvation and her disliking many prominent false teachers in the world like your Kenneth Copelands and Benny Hinns of the world.. it's like a wall gets put between what she takes in from teaching and her mind. She's blocked it off. She also doesn't like when pastors get passionate in their preaching and say things about being "blood bought" and "covered in the blood of Jesus" or talking about the power of the holy spirit, etc. She agrees with the moral teaching, she believes Jesus was a real person and a good teacher about how to live life morally.. but the most essential parts of the gospel she just refuses. She's stuck on it being her works and she's been led into new age and eastern mysticism and pantheism and universalism by my father when she was younger.. she combines that with the works based salvation of Catholicism to form her core beliefs. It's scary because I believe that is ultimately what the one world religion of the end times will be like, works salvation, combining eastern mysticism and catholicism, seeing Jesus as some sort of Enlightened Zen Buddhist teacher, with an abstract creator rather than a personal creator.
A very vivid dream I had weeks ago, basically set my sister's fate as uncertain and my mother as utterly rejecting Jesus.
So I don't really know what to do. my sister is looking for something that no human can give her, and my mother just rejects it and I'm afraid is on the path to believing the strong delusion (the age of aquarius).
all I can do is pray.
but so far that prayer has been unanswered.


Pray.
Be a consistent witness.
Be kind, and never beat anyone with a bible.
And remember that Jesus told you that your conversion and witness, will be very difficult for your family to accept.
But given time, if you maintain a strong faith and a dedication to serving God, they will come to see your faith as something real.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lg2000
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,503
2,336
43
Helena
✟207,423.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
So what has caused your sister to believe the Bible to not be real.
Growing up in a household where our mom didn't teach us the bible. Going through a school system that didn't teach the bible. It took years of people working on me to convince me
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,503
2,336
43
Helena
✟207,423.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Have you considered this prophecy:

Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by. -Isaiah 26:20
For behold, the LORD is coming out from his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, and the earth will disclose the blood shed on it, and will no more cover its slain. -Isaiah 26:21

What do you think ?

Yeah she might believe when the rapture happens and I'm suddenly gone.. but at that time.. the great deception will be in swing and she might not be able to believe anymore.
Isaiah 26:19-21 are actually rapture verses... in the old testament, it's pretty incredible but there it is, a resurrection and an invitation to hide from the wrath of God.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,503
2,336
43
Helena
✟207,423.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
She does. This line right here "Catholic vs Christianity theology debate" already spells how much knowledge you lack about christianity, and how you do need to learn good theology.

It's really you who does not "know know" him.. not the other way around.

Really.
when she says
and I quote
"I don't need Jesus"
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
10,736
4,737
59
Mississippi
✟251,747.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Growing up in a household where our mom didn't teach us the bible. Going through a school system that didn't teach the bible. It took years of people working on me to convince me

You are 40 correct, is your sister older or younger.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,503
2,336
43
Helena
✟207,423.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
You are 40 correct, is your sister older or younger.
Younger, still 36.. either way.. there's a few differences.
So.. here's kinda what happened. My grandparents on my mother's side .. Grandpa was from a protestant family, Grandma from an Irish Catholic family. When they got together, Grandpa had to officially convert to Catholicism, but he disagreed with Catholicism, so they both ended up throwing out the baby with the bathwater to be together. They raised their family without religion and even didn't allow religious talk in the household, even though there were still devout Catholic family members on my Grandmother's side, they just saw religion as divisive and a source of conflict and would split families apart (it's not like Jesus even disagreed with that..). So my mom grew up.. no religion. She married a guy who had just come home from Vietnam, who had gotten into drug counterculture, and eastern mysticism. My dad.. I have no doubts is regretting his beliefs right now, he died in 2005 before the age of 60, but he influenced my mom into eastern mysticism, and new age. One of my only memories I still have of my earthly father, is him teaching me yin and yang. Because both of them were opposed to ORGANIZED religion, seeing it as a source of conflict, they came up with kind of their own belief system, mishmashing Judeo-Christian morality, with eastern mysticism philosophy, and naturalist origins, and new age spirituality.
With my mother it was always mother nature, never God. That's what me and my sister grew up with. As I grew up, I was outspoken with my naturalist beliefs, this painted a target on me for every Christian neighbor and friend we encountered that I had to be saved. Because my sister saw how much I was targeted by religious people, and not all of it was loving, some of it was bullying, and a daycare used to do things like lock me in the basement, she kept her beliefs close to her chest to avoid the same treatment I got. The distrust of organized religion was reinforced by that. Not all of it was bad though, of course I didn't get saved by people who tried to use punishment or bullying to conform me to their beliefs. What ultimately saved me was moving and my neighbors were a good Christian family with children the same age as myself and my sister and of course we became very good friends (really they're like family to me still). It led to vacation bible school, getting saved, going to church, doing community service and key club and campus life and youth for Christ and bible study on wednesday nights with one of my other friend's dads, etc. But my sister was still kind of hedged on her beliefs. They didn't go after her as much as they went after me, she got invited to bible school, and church occasionally, but she just didn't take to it.
For me what was transformative in my belief happened at vacation bible school. When people had tried to teach me Jesus before, they focused on my own works, they taught mostly a works based salvation. To which Jesus made no sense.. if it's about my works, why do I need Jesus? I was almost quoting my mother "I don't need Jesus to be a good person". The eye opener was, you can't be a good enough person to deserve heaven, so you absolutely needed Jesus. I was also taught more about Jesus as a person, and that was something that had been missing from prior attempts to save me. I'd been told Jesus was the Son of God, and our Savior, but then they flip it around and focus on my own works which makes me not understand why I need a savior if it's about how I live my life personally. Just saying He was the Son of God and was glorious also held no appeal to me, I simply don't care about power, glory, or titles, those by themselves don't make me want to spend forever with that person. You can be an all powerful, glorious God who's a colossal cosmic jerk after all.. many pagan gods are seen as such.
What appealed to me was how Jesus was actually as a person. He was compassionate, healing diseases and being merciful to people even to sinners that other people wanted to stone to death. He saw religious hypocrisy for what it was (and this really appealed to me because of bad experiences I had with some "religious" people). He was reaching out to people that "religious" people shunned like publicans and winebibbers. He appreciated humility, picking fishermen and a tax collector as His chosen followers, rather than 'great theologians". To Him the greatest in Heaven was like a little child, innocent, with faith, but not mighty or powerful, and simplicity was preferred over ceremony. The publican's prayer of "God be merciful to me a sinner" being preferred over the Pharisee's self righteous practiced prayer.
So 2 things for me had to click. I had to know why I needed Jesus and why I'd want to spend forever with Him.
Those things haven't clicked for my family yet.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: SANTOSO
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SANTOSO

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2020
2,227
1,183
47
Jakarta
✟236,770.00
Country
Indonesia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What do you do about those family and friends. They have an academic understanding of what the Gospel is but what the bible says is simply not enough for them. Personal testimonies are not enough for them.
My sister understands the gospel, she just doesn't believe it. She's looking for some life changing personal experience that would actually make her believe. She's not opposed to Christianity or the gospel, but she just doesn't know what she actually believes.
I pray for her, because it's pretty apparent that God actually has to give her faith, because simply teaching her doesn't do it. She's been taught by many people for decades, including myself and her mother in law, but it just doesn't catch her.
My mother... well she's not HOSTILE to Christianity in that she knows I believe it and is fine with that. But she thinks it's just a guidelines for moral living, and "I don't need Jesus to be a good person" I have tried to explain that's not how it works that there ARE no "good persons" and that she needs a savior...
but between catholic teaching from a lot of my family in older generations (no offense to those who are Catholic but actually put their faith in Jesus Christ) for works based salvation and her disliking many prominent false teachers in the world like your Kenneth Copelands and Benny Hinns of the world.. it's like a wall gets put between what she takes in from teaching and her mind. She's blocked it off. She also doesn't like when pastors get passionate in their preaching and say things about being "blood bought" and "covered in the blood of Jesus" or talking about the power of the holy spirit, etc. She agrees with the moral teaching, she believes Jesus was a real person and a good teacher about how to live life morally.. but the most essential parts of the gospel she just refuses. She's stuck on it being her works and she's been led into new age and eastern mysticism and pantheism and universalism by my father when she was younger.. she combines that with the works based salvation of Catholicism to form her core beliefs. It's scary because I believe that is ultimately what the one world religion of the end times will be like, works salvation, combining eastern mysticism and catholicism, seeing Jesus as some sort of Enlightened Zen Buddhist teacher, with an abstract creator rather than a personal creator.
A very vivid dream I had weeks ago, basically set my sister's fate as uncertain and my mother as utterly rejecting Jesus.
So I don't really know what to do. my sister is looking for something that no human can give her, and my mother just rejects it and I'm afraid is on the path to believing the strong delusion (the age of aquarius).
all I can do is pray.
but so far that prayer has been unanswered.

Dear Jamdoc,
I am concerned about your prayer go unanswered because you have not released forgiveness to those who offend you like Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn.

Many know what they had done wrong. Don’t we wish that they make amends for their pasts and repent and find God’s grace again?
We know they have offended many people but don’t harbor hate.

This is what we have heard:
But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. -1 John 2:11

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, -Matthew 6:14
but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. -Matthew 6:15

May you release forgiveness to those who offend you and find your answered prayer.
 
Upvote 0