This is an article I wrote about just three of them in Isaiah. It's short. Just points out the obvious.What 100 chapters do you speak of?
I really hate labels. I consider myself a simple follower of Christ and God's word, though not perfect in this endeavor by any means. I came to a believe that Matthew 24 couldn't be talking about the second coming for a few reasons, not the least of which was his statement that everything he had just said was going to happen within the lifetime of those listening. While his language seemed to contradict his claim.Partial Preterism, the older of the two views, holds that prophecies such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ were fulfilled circa 70 AD when the Roman general (and future Emperor) Titus sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Jewish Temple, putting a permanent stop to the daily animal sacrifices. It identifies "Babylon the great" (Revelation 17-18) with the ancient pagan City of Rome or Jerusalem.
Jesus told Caiaphas the High Priest that he personally would see Jesus coming in the clouds so Jesus must have come before Caiaphas died (Math 26:64). And Luke 21:32 says all the things Jesus spoke about would come about before the end of that generation which ties in with Caiaphas still being alive. And Jesus told John not to seal the Revelation (Rev 22:10) because it was the time of the end (whereas He had told Daniel to seal that prophecy because it was not the time of the end.) And Jesus told His apostles they wouldn't have gone through all the cities of Israel before he returned (Math 10:23.) So Jesus returned sometime during the end of that generation in the clouds and took His disciples to his Father's House as he had promised them he would (John 14:2-3.)Members who chose to participate in this safe house should be partial preterists. This thread is for discussing end time events and prophecy (Biblical) from a partial preterists point of view. Fellowship posts from all members are welcome.
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What's your take on this parable? How did Jesus link this parable with Israel, who were the five virgins that fell asleep without enough oil (preparation), and what's the meaning of the marriage celebration?Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. -- Matt. 25:1-13
Stryper - Not That Kind Of Guy. - YouTube
I too would like to discuss the resurrection. My position on this has changed over the years, and changed again recently.I would like to discuss The resurrection though....a topic i am back and forth about. I am pretty confident that without The Resurrection happening already, Heaven would still be essentially Empty (the Father, the Son and the Spirit not being excluded of course) 1John 5:7. But if we are to say 1Thes 4 was fulfilled at the Judgement by 70AD, than we must also conclude that those who slept in Jesus whom He brought with Him had to already be resurrected and then those who were alive and remained were resurrected right after that.
Therefore the resurrection had to have happened then.
Is my interpretation wrong here ?
I believe the marriage celebration referred to the consummation of the new covenant when the old was destroyed in 70 AD. In other words, we are now married to Christ through the new covenant.What's your take on this parable? How did Jesus link this parable with Israel, who were the five virgins that fell asleep without enough oil (preparation), and what's the meaning of the marriage celebration?
I did not read your entire post because without paragraph breaks it's hard to read and easy to lose interest, but I do want to ask you about this statement you made here. You said "Jesus directly used the term 'the resurrection' to describe the fact that the patriarchs were alive, not dead and the multitude was astonished by this statement".But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, 32. I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living 33. And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine. Jesus directly used the term “the resurrection” to describe the fact that the patriarchs were alive, not dead and the multitude was astonished by this statement.
I too would like to discuss the resurrection. My position on this has changed over the years, and changed again recently.
First I believed that we go to heaven or hell immediately upon death, and that it's always been this way. I believed this because that's what I was taught.
Then as I studied the Bible and found verses like "For dust you are and to dust you will return" and "The dead know nothing" and "I will resurrect all who belong to me on the last day" I came to believe that we actually just sleep in the earth until the very last day of time, at which point we are resurrected into spiritual bodies and can enter into heaven.
Now I'm leaning towards a hybrid of these two and I'd love to know what other thinks of this. It can't be denied that the old testament is full of proof that we sleep in the dust of the earth when we die, however the new testament is much less clear on this and in fact somewhat ambiguous with statements like "to be absent from the body is to be with the lord", and so I'm wondering if this arrangement of death was modified when the old covenant was removed.
Primarily I'm taking my cues from Daniel 12.
In Daniel chapter 12 we see that the angel tells Daniel that he must rest until the end of days when many will come out of their graves; some to everlasting righteousness and some to everlasting contempt. I had always seen this as a description of the final resurrection on the very last day of time, but I'm realizing now that many references to "the last days" were actually references to the last days of the old covenant, and given that Daniel's visions all pertained to the time leading up to the end of the last covenant, and that the destruction of the temple ushered in the thousand years during which the saints reign with Christ, but most importantly that the angel's description of the resurrection started with "at that time", I wonder if there was a physical resurrection of all who had died up until that point in 70 AD, and if that was the first resurrection, with a second to come at the end of time.
Thoughts?
Dude, I've been off an on at ChristianForums.com and other similar sites for many years, and I can count on one hand the number of times I read a post that literally opened my eyes, and this post is one of those.Resurrection of the dead is a very sensible, scriptural doctrine from the preterist view.
#1) The dead are all those who finished their lives on planet earth. They are a category of people -- the dead.
#2) In Paul's time, and going all the way back to Adam, the dead went to Hades/Sheol at their physical deaths. This place was NOT Heaven and it was NOT the lake of fire (commonly known as "hell" in today's parlance). Those places weren't prepared yet.
#3) The bible then teaches WHEN Hades/Sheol was to be destroyed (Rev 20:12-15; 1 Cor 15:55-55), giving up the dead.
Preterists maintain that 1 Cor 15:55-56 clearly lists that Hades/Sheol was destoyed when the Age of the Law of Moses came to its end:
1 Corinthians 15:54-56
then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O HADES is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW
That is the victory slogan when the resurrection of the dead happens. All agree on that.
We are not still waiting for Hades to be destroyed. We are not still waiting for the Law of Moses to reach its end. We are not still waiting for the dead to be raised out of Hades and taken into their eternal inheritance in Heaven or eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire ("hell" in common parlance). All the dead are now either in Heaven's eternal bliss or in hell. There is no Hadean realm anymore. Hades was destroyed when the dead were raised out of it (1 Cor 15:55-56; Rev 20:12-15).
The Law Age was forever ended at the destruction of the Temple. That age had run its appointed course of time (Gal 3:19,24-25; Gal 4:4-5). We know that the Old Covenant was still hanging on to God's people as of Heb 8:13 (see also 2 Cor 3:6-12; Gal 4:24-25; Gal 4:8-12; Col 2:16-22, Acts 21:20-26, etc), but that Old Covenant was about to vanish (Heb 8:13; Heb 10:9) -- it did fully vanish at AD 70 when Christ's prophecies about the Temple came to pass.
Look very closely at the saying that "death is swallowed up in victory." Look how Paul ties it to the end of the Age of the Mosaic Law and NOT the end of the New Covenant Age (which had barely even begun yet). Paul writes:
'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O Hades is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW -- 1 Cor 15:55-56
It was The Law of Moses that was preventing the saints from entering Heaven due to it's condemnation of the saints. Paul sees the victory over death to be tied to the removal of the Law Age, which was centered in the Temple system instituted by God and not destroyed until AD 70. Christ had very much to say about the destruction of the Temple.
Paul was living in the last days of the Old Testament Age when Resurrection was about to happen (Romans 13:11; Acts 24:15), -- it was even to occur in their lifetimes as Paul fully expected and taught (1 Thess 4:15 -- "WE who are alive and remain..."). Acts 24:15 says:
Acts 24:15
having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that THERE IS ABOUT TO BE a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous (Young's LITERAL translation)
Indeed, Jesus was resurrected out of Hades at AD 30 and Paul was expecting the rest of the O.T. saints to exit Hades and join Christ in Heaven's bliss very, very, soon. They hadn't yet, but Paul promised that the Hebrews 11 O.T. saints were destined to receive their promise in Paul's generation (Hebrews 11:39-40).
Does Paul tie Resurrection (which he taught was ABOUT TO happen in their lifetimes -- Acts 24:15; Romans 13:11, 1 Thess 4:15) to the end of the New Covenant Age? Absolutely not. Does Paul tie the institution of Resurrection to the end of the Old Testament Age? The answer is ABSOLUTELY YES. Paul ties the institution of Resurrection to the removal of THE OLD COVENANT LAW OF MOSES. Paul teaches that the sting and victory of death (which futurists teach have not yet been eradicated) exists due to SIN POWERED BY THE LAW OF MOSES! (1 Cor 15:56). Look at it carefully one last time:
1 Corinthians 15:54-56
and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O Hades is thy victory?'[56] And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW.
When the Temple was destroyed at the last trump at AD 70 the dead O.T. saints were instantly taken to Heaven to be with Christ in their eternal inheritance. They are there now and we, the living, are caught up to be with them instantly and exactly as 2 Cor 5:1-2 states:
2 Corinthians 5:1-2
For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. For most assuredly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven
Just a thought when reading this post.Resurrection of the dead is a very sensible, scriptural doctrine from the preterist view.
#1) The dead are all those who finished their lives on planet earth. They are a category of people -- the dead.
#2) In Paul's time, and going all the way back to Adam, the dead went to Hades/Sheol at their physical deaths. This place was NOT Heaven and it was NOT the lake of fire (commonly known as "hell" in today's parlance). Those places weren't prepared yet.
#3) The bible then teaches WHEN Hades/Sheol was to be destroyed (Rev 20:12-15; 1 Cor 15:55-55), giving up the dead.
Preterists maintain that 1 Cor 15:55-56 clearly lists that Hades/Sheol was destoyed when the Age of the Law of Moses came to its end:
1 Corinthians 15:54-56
then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O HADES is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW
That is the victory slogan when the resurrection of the dead happens. All agree on that.
We are not still waiting for Hades to be destroyed. We are not still waiting for the Law of Moses to reach its end. We are not still waiting for the dead to be raised out of Hades and taken into their eternal inheritance in Heaven or eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire ("hell" in common parlance). All the dead are now either in Heaven's eternal bliss or in hell. There is no Hadean realm anymore. Hades was destroyed when the dead were raised out of it (1 Cor 15:55-56; Rev 20:12-15).
The Law Age was forever ended at the destruction of the Temple. That age had run its appointed course of time (Gal 3:19,24-25; Gal 4:4-5). We know that the Old Covenant was still hanging on to God's people as of Heb 8:13 (see also 2 Cor 3:6-12; Gal 4:24-25; Gal 4:8-12; Col 2:16-22, Acts 21:20-26, etc), but that Old Covenant was about to vanish (Heb 8:13; Heb 10:9) -- it did fully vanish at AD 70 when Christ's prophecies about the Temple came to pass.
Look very closely at the saying that "death is swallowed up in victory." Look how Paul ties it to the end of the Age of the Mosaic Law and NOT the end of the New Covenant Age (which had barely even begun yet). Paul writes:
'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O Hades is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW -- 1 Cor 15:55-56
It was The Law of Moses that was preventing the saints from entering Heaven due to it's condemnation of the saints. Paul sees the victory over death to be tied to the removal of the Law Age, which was centered in the Temple system instituted by God and not destroyed until AD 70. Christ had very much to say about the destruction of the Temple.
Paul was living in the last days of the Old Testament Age when Resurrection was about to happen (Romans 13:11; Acts 24:15), -- it was even to occur in their lifetimes as Paul fully expected and taught (1 Thess 4:15 -- "WE who are alive and remain..."). Acts 24:15 says:
Acts 24:15
having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that THERE IS ABOUT TO BE a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous (Young's LITERAL translation)
Indeed, Jesus was resurrected out of Hades at AD 30 and Paul was expecting the rest of the O.T. saints to exit Hades and join Christ in Heaven's bliss very, very, soon. They hadn't yet, but Paul promised that the Hebrews 11 O.T. saints were destined to receive their promise in Paul's generation (Hebrews 11:39-40).
Does Paul tie Resurrection (which he taught was ABOUT TO happen in their lifetimes -- Acts 24:15; Romans 13:11, 1 Thess 4:15) to the end of the New Covenant Age? Absolutely not. Does Paul tie the institution of Resurrection to the end of the Old Testament Age? The answer is ABSOLUTELY YES. Paul ties the institution of Resurrection to the removal of THE OLD COVENANT LAW OF MOSES. Paul teaches that the sting and victory of death (which futurists teach have not yet been eradicated) exists due to SIN POWERED BY THE LAW OF MOSES! (1 Cor 15:56). Look at it carefully one last time:
1 Corinthians 15:54-56
and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O Hades is thy victory?'[56] And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW.
When the Temple was destroyed at the last trump at AD 70 the dead O.T. saints were instantly taken to Heaven to be with Christ in their eternal inheritance. They are there now and we, the living, are caught up to be with them instantly and exactly as 2 Cor 5:1-2 states:
2 Corinthians 5:1-2
For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. For most assuredly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven
Just a thought when reading this post.
Mt 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
It does not say that they had heavenly bodies. But they were dead and raised up from the grave. We don't even know enough to say they died again. Elijah was taken up without a resurrected body. Enoch was no more because he was taken. We just cannot say beyond what the text witness tells us.That's an interesting point. Yes, I too see that those people were resurrected physically, but did not gain immortality, whereas the resurrection in 70 AD would've resurrected people in immortal spirit form.
It does not say that they had heavenly bodies. But they were dead and raised up from the grave. We don't even know enough to say they died again. Elijah was taken up without a resurrected body. Enoch was no more because he was taken. We just cannot say beyond what the text witness tells us.
No, I didn't mean those resurrected at Jesus death had heavenly bodies. I meant those resurrected at 70 AD had heavenly (spiritual) bodies.It does not say that they had heavenly bodies. But they were dead and raised up from the grave. We don't even know enough to say they died again. Elijah was taken up without a resurrected body. Enoch was no more because he was taken. We just cannot say beyond what the text witness tells us.