With all your heart?

[98cwitr]

I’m not seeing how those passages are evidence that we always love God with all our hearts.

Well, lets ask the question: Is it really your heart if God was the one that replaced your old heart of stone with one of flesh?

"I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws"

That stands to reason that this "new" heart is not our own, but if this new heart enables us to follow God's Law, then how could it not do so out of love; and love in a whole and complete sense?

 

[Mark Quayle]

No.

Why not --because the Bible is not authoritative? "If you love me you will keep my commandments." We do not keep all his commandments, therefore we do not love him with our whole heart.

Can you show me the error in that reasoning?

 

[Swag365]

Why not --because the Bible is not authoritative? "If you love me you will keep my commandments." We do not keep all his commandments, therefore we do not love him with our whole heart.

Can you show me the error in that reasoning?

The error in your reasoning is that it fails to account for differences that occur over time. The state of a particular man at time A does not necessitate that he be in that same state at time B. John Doe may not be keeping all of our Lord's commandments today, but tomorrow it is possible for him, by the grace of God.

 

[Hammster]

Well, lets ask the question: Is it really your heart if God was the one that replaced your old heart of stone with one of flesh?

"I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws"

That stands to reason that this "new" heart is not our own, but if this new heart enables us to follow God's Law, then how could it not do so out of love; and love in a whole and complete sense?

The new heart enables us to follow God’s law in the manner it should be followed. But we still sin. So the new heart doesn’t make us perfect.

 

[mlepfitjw]

The new heart enables us to follow God’s law in the manner it should be followed. But we still sin. So the new heart doesn’t make us perfect.

Our faith in Christ Jesus makes us perfect.
Hebrews 10:14

11 Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. 13 Since that time, He waits for His enemies to be made a footstool for His feet, 14 because by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified.

15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says:

16“This is the covenant I will make with them

after those days, declares the Lord.

I will put My laws in their hearts

and inscribe them on their minds.”

17Then He adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts

I will remember no more.”

 

[Hammster]

Our faith in Christ Jesus makes us perfect.
Hebrews 10:14

11 Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. 13 Since that time, He waits for His enemies to be made a footstool for His feet, 14 because by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified.

15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says:

16“This is the covenant I will make with them

after those days, declares the Lord.

I will put My laws in their hearts

and inscribe them on their minds.”

17Then He adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts

I will remember no more.”

So you are perfect? No sin? Everything you do is by faith and for His glory?

 

[mlepfitjw]

I still sin, but my sins have been paid for.

My life has been more faith based than it has ever been anytime before. It's not really for me to prove it to anyone aside from my own actions and how I response to God by my own faith and own relationship.

No authority over me, or council other than God Himself, in my life.

 

[Swag365]

So you are perfect? No sin? Everything you do is by faith and for His glory?

I often hear Reformed and some other Protestants suggest that everything not done for God's Glory is sin. Are there any specific parts of the Bible that are used to support that view?

Are there morally neutral acts in your theology? If I go to the supermarket and buy a bottle of orange juice because I enjoy the taste of oranges, I am not sure why this should be considered a sin, unless I think "Lord, I seek to glorify Thee by buying this orange juice" before heading out to the store.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The error in your reasoning is that it fails to account for differences that occur over time. The state of a particular man at time A does not necessitate that he be in that same state at time B. John Doe may not be keeping all of our Lord's commandments today, but tomorrow it is possible for him, by the grace of God.

The way has been made, agreed, but according to John 14:15 (if not by several other passages) it does not and will not happen). Can you show how "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" only applies at first and not to the subsequent "states" of a person's person, when evidence shows it does never happen? Or maybe more to the point, can you show how 1 John 1 "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." likewise does not always apply during this temporal existence? We must be killing the 'old man' --not "have killed" him.

(Your stance concerning me puts me into the same category of 'logician' that I put many others in, who say that (according to Calvinism) whatever happens will happen, so (they say) Calvinism teaches "why bother". The conclusion is wrong. (i.e. the following: God can save any, true. But he has only chosen some, and all he has chosen will indeed come to him. Calvinism doesn't then teach that one need not testify since all who are chosen will be saved with or without us doing what God commands. Nor does it teach that one need not come to God, since it will happen automatically according to God's timetable.)

I am not saying the person is the same through all stages. In fact, I say we are not even complete beings, individuals, until we see him as he is, "when the sons of God are revealed.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The new heart enables us to follow God’s law in the manner it should be followed. But we still sin. So the new heart doesn’t make us perfect.

Exactly. The old man remains, and will have to be put to death until the day this carcass is vacated.

 

[mlepfitjw]

My apologizes

 

[Swag365]

The way has been made, agreed, but according to John 14:15 (if not by several other passages) it does not and will not happen). Can you show how "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" only applies at first and not to the subsequent "states" of a person's person, when evidence shows it does never happen? Or maybe more to the point, can you show how 1 John 1 "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." likewise does not always apply during this temporal existence? We must be killing the 'old man' --not "have killed" him.

(Your stance concerning me puts me into the same category of 'logician' that I put many others in, who say that (according to Calvinism) whatever happens will happen, so (they say) Calvinism teaches "why bother". The conclusion is wrong. (i.e. the following: God can save any, true. But he has only chosen some, and all he has chosen will indeed come to him. Calvinism doesn't then teach that one need not testify since all who are chosen will be saved with or without us doing what God commands. Nor does it teach that one need not come to God, since it will happen automatically according to God's timetable.)

I am not saying the person is the same through all stages. In fact, I say we are not even complete beings, individuals, until we see him as he is, "when the sons of God are revealed.

I'm not sure why you think that it is impossible or "does never happen" that a person follows all of God's commandments, at least for a time. We see an example of that in Sacred Scripture itself:

5 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord. 7 But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and both were advanced in years.​

 

[Albion]

I often hear Reformed and some other Protestants suggest that everything not done for God's Glory is sin. Are there any specific parts of the Bible that are used to support that view?

I Corinthians 2:14
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

 

[zoidar]

I don't see how those three show we can live in sinless perfection --particularly when I see the same Scriptures saying, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.",

When Jesus tells us to love God with all our heart, is he talking about sinless perfection? Very few would say we can live in sinless perfection. Do you think Jesus demands that of us?

 

[lsume]

Can we, in our fallen-but-redeemed state here on Earth, love God with all of our heart? Or does our flesh prevent us from doing so?

Yes we can. However, first you must experience His Perfect Love. I believe that you must be born again to know this Love. It has seemed to me of late that anyone who is gifted to taste of God’s Love would Love Him back.

 

[Swag365]

I Corinthians 2:14
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Thanks. Can you explain why you quoted this particular verse?

 

[zoidar]

The new heart enables us to follow God’s law in the manner it should be followed. But we still sin. So the new heart doesn’t make us perfect.

"The new heart enables us to follow God’s law in the manner it should be followed."

Well, that's exactly what Jesus means when he says we are to love God with all our heart. At least that's my undestanding.

 

[Albion]

Can you explain why you quoted this particular verse?

I thought it went more definitely to the point you raised. A half-dozen others that might have been cited seemed to me to be less clear or forceful.

This says that the man who isn't converted cannot know what is right and wrong, not in the sense that God sees it. That means, necessarily, that such a person is in sin.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Are there morally neutral acts in your theology? If I go to the supermarket and buy a bottle of orange juice because I enjoy the taste of oranges, I am not sure why this should be considered a sin, unless I think "Lord, I seek to glorify Thee by buying this orange juice" before heading out to the store.

Often people say that if they did not mean to do something it is not sin. More confidently, they say that if they did not mean to do something consciously rebelliously, it is not sin. While I agree that God "looks on the heart to judge the deeds" it is not Biblical to say that unconscious deeds are not sinful, nor that neutral deeds even exist. While getting the orange juice is not in itself a sin, the heart at enmity with God colors every deed, thought, intent and emotion in a person. Even for the saved, rebellion insidiously makes its way into everything it can.

Meanwhile: No, in my opinion, there are no neutral deeds. In fact, everything that is not of faith is sin. But with God all things are YES. It's a little like the 60's sound of "It's all good, man!" I don't think even a rock is neutral --it is good. God made it. It is here for God's sake.

I have to say though, the notion that our consciously attributing or dedicating all attempts at good deeds (or mundane deeds, for that matter,) to the glory of God sounds a bit more self-important that how God sees us (not to mention it can be maddening, in the end). We have nothing to commend ourselves to God. No ability native to us to even begin to know what glorifies God or just how a thing glorifies God. When God can create those he has consigned to eternal torment, and this glorifies him (Romans 9), how can we sound those depths and know what we are talking about, to be able to decide (and God have to respect our frail, silly, fitful willingness) what glorifies him? It is better to live in him, than to decide what is and what is not presentable to him. It is rebellion to think we can or even that we must do something in and of ourselves to qualify us for his respect.

I wish I could remember who it was, so I could get the exact quote, something along the lines of: "It is impossible to improve worship by saying something about God that he has not said about himself."

 

[Swag365]

Very few would say we can live in sinless perfection. Do you think Jesus demands that of us?

Why not? Our Lord instructs us to be perfect, does he not?