Is NOSAS compatible with Amil?

Timtofly

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Oh, so your OPINION equates to God's written Word? Can you show me the verses which teach that?

Look, we expect people to back up their opinions with scripture here. Show me why you think premil is true. Don't just list some passages without commenting on them and think that's enough. Show clearly why you interpret those passages the way you do and then we can discuss it.

For example, I noticed you mentioned Zechariah 14. That can't possibly be referring to a future earthly millennial kingdom and I can show you why. Are you interested in discussing that?
Are you saying sin and punishment belong in the NHNE? If a nation rebels, it will be punished. That is sin and punishment in the NHNE. You are placing this scenario where it does not belong even more so than Premil do in the Millennium (Lord's Day). If you can place it in the NHNE, why not the Lord's Day? If you sanitize it for eternity, why not sanitize it for the Lord's Day?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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No, what God's Word says as written IS... what gives me my 'opinion'. It's a pretty darn good one too, and an easy one, because what God's Word says is Truth. So one who stays with what God's Word says as written will be speaking Truth. It's as simple and easy as that.
When are you planning to back up your OPINIONS with scripture? Anyone can claim anything they want. Show me the scripture.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Are you saying sin and punishment belong in the NHNE?
No, that isn't what I'm saying. You misinterpret what people say almost as often as you misinterpret scripture.

If a nation rebels, it will be punished. That is sin and punishment in the NHNE. You are placing this scenario where it does not belong even more so than Premil do in the Millennium (Lord's Day). If you can place it in the NHNE, why not the Lord's Day? If you sanitize it for eternity, why not sanitize it for the Lord's Day?
I didn't place it in the NHNE, so you just wasted your time arguing with a straw man.
 
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Davy

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Oh, so your OPINION equates to God's written Word? Can you show me the verses which teach that?

Look, we expect people to back up their opinions with scripture here. Show me why you think premil is true. Don't just list some passages without commenting on them and think that's enough. Show clearly why you interpret those passages the way you do and then we can discuss it.

For example, I noticed you mentioned Zechariah 14. That can't possibly be referring to a future earthly millennial kingdom and I can show you why. Are you interested in discussing that?

I reference the Scriptures. Apparently you missed reading them as I posted them. My guess is that you actually have no intention of reading them anyway. Your attitude isn't conducive to learning anything new, but is more set like old bottles.
 
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Davy

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When are you planning to back up your OPINIONS with scripture? Anyone can claim anything they want. Show me the scripture.

Well, this is the 2nd time you've asked that. How many times do you need to ask to make sure OTHERS see your belligerent question? because I gave Scripture references to support Christ's reign at His future return, and you were SILENT on all that.
 
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Timtofly

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No, that isn't what I'm saying. You misinterpret what people say almost as often as you misinterpret scripture.

I didn't place it in the NHNE, so you just wasted your time arguing with a straw man.
Well since you never give an explanation but complain others are vague, I have to deduct one thought at a time of what you reject. If it is not in the Lord's day and not in the NHNE, and has not been in the last 1990 years, then when is it? It happens at the second coming, and you are out of options on why you deny the Lord's Day.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I reference the Scriptures. Apparently you missed reading them as I posted them. My guess is that you actually have no intention of reading them anyway. Your attitude isn't conducive to learning anything new, but is more set like old bottles.
Anyone can reference scriptures. Are you unable to show how those scriptures support your view? If so, why are you here?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Well, this is the 2nd time you've asked that. How many times do you need to ask to make sure OTHERS see your belligerent question? because I gave Scripture references to support Christ's reign at His future return, and you were SILENT on all that.
Is this how you debate? You list some scripture references with no commentary. Anyone can do that. What is the point of that? Can you tell me why those scripture references support your view?
 
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Davy

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Anyone can reference scriptures. Are you unable to show how those scriptures support your view? If so, why are you here?

See my post #290 here in this thread. If that isn't enough Scripture, then for you there's no Scripture in God's Word you wouldn't reject.
 
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Davy

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Is this how you debate? You list some scripture references with no commentary. Anyone can do that. What is the point of that? Can you tell me why those scripture references support your view?

Yawn! You've become a bore, since you refuse to address the Bible Scripture on the matter.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Well since you never give an explanation but complain others are vague, I have to deduct one thought at a time of what you reject. If it is not in the Lord's day and not in the NHNE, and has not been in the last 1990 years, then when is it? It happens at the second coming, and you are out of options on why you deny the Lord's Day.
I asked Davy if he would like to discuss it. If he said yes then I was planning to go into it in more detail. Do you understand what I'm saying?

If it happens at the second coming as you claim, then explain to me how the following can happen at that time:

Zechariah 14:10 The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. 11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

If this is meant to be taken literally as saying earthly Jerusalem will be inhabited after Christ's second coming and never destroyed again then explain how that can be the case in light of what Peter taught here:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

How do you interpret 2 Peter 3:10-13? When do you believe it will be fulfilled? I believe it will be fulfilled at Christ's second coming which would mean that an earthly millennial kingdom would be impossible to occur after the earth is burned up. If the passage was fulfilled after the thousand years then how could Zech 14:11 be true since earthly Jerusalem would obviously would be destroyed when the earth is burned up?


Now, let's look at another part of Zechariah 14 that can't possibly be fulfilled after the second coming of Christ:

Zechariah 14:16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. 18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 20 On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. 21 Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord Almighty.

If this is meant to be taken literally and was fulfilled during a time period right after the second coming Christ then that would mean animal sacrifices would be reinstituted because it mentions celebrating the festival (feast) of tabernacles and talks about people coming to make sacrifices in Jerusalem.

That cannot be. Animal sacrifices were performed in Old Testament times for the purpose of foreshadowing (pointing forward to) Christ's once for all sacrifice.

Hebrews 10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; 6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. 7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—I have come to do your will, my God.’” 8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This passage clearly teaches that the old covenant animal sacrifices were only a shadow of something better to come which was the Lord Jesus Christ's "once for all" sacrifice. They have already served their purpose and there will never be any need or desire for them ever again. Notice that it says "when Christ came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased".

Why would God ever want to have animal sacrifices again when He clearly was not pleased with them and did not desire them any longer? That's why He sent His Son Jesus Christ to make His "once for all" sacrifice so that animal sacrifices would never be needed again.

I believe Zechariah 14 contains a lot of figurative language just like the rest of the book. Premils think that Zechariah 12 and 13 will also be fulfilled at the second coming despite the fact that Zechariah 12:10 is quoted in John 19:37 as having a first coming fulfillment and Zechariah 13:7 is quoted in Matthew 26:31 (Mark 14:27) with a first coming fulfillment as well.

Zechariah 14:8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter. 9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.

These verses had a first coming fulfillment. Verse 8 is figurative language, but the explanation for its fulfillment can be seen in this passage here which related to the last day of the festival (feast) of tabernacles:

John 7:37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

What about where it says the Lord will be king over the whole earth? Here is the fulfillment of that:

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:16 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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See my post #290 here in this thread. If that isn't enough Scripture, then for you there's no Scripture in God's Word you wouldn't reject.
In that post you said "I can give you a line upon line break down of Rev.20, and other relevant Scripture that reveals that 1,000 year period is for after Christ's return, which is not difficult at all." And then you did not proceed to do that. All you did was list some scriptures without breaking them down to show why you think they support your view. That isn't going to convince anyone of anything. Anyone can list a bunch of scripture references. Can you please break down the scripture references the way I did in post #311?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Yawn! You've become a bore, since you refuse to address the Bible Scripture on the matter.
How does just listing scripture references address the scriptures? You said you could break Revelation 20 and other related scriptures down line by line. So, let's see it. I'm getting the sense so far that you were just giving lip service, so to speak. If you don't actually break down any of the passages you're referencing then you're just as boring as you are saying I am. At least I am more than willing to actually break the passages down. Are you?
 
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Davy

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In that post you said "I can give you a line upon line break down of Rev.20, and other relevant Scripture that reveals that 1,000 year period is for after Christ's return, which is not difficult at all." And then you did not proceed to do that.

I don't have to break them down. I stated the meaning of their intent in my previous paragraph of description. All one need do is READ those simple Scriptures. If you don't care to do that reading in simplicity, but instead want to argue grammar or some other silliness, then I don't have time for that.
 
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Davy

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How does just listing scripture references address the scriptures? You said you could break Revelation 20 and other related scriptures down line by line. So, let's see it.

I already answered that.
 
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Davy

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Spiritual Jew

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I don't have to break them down. I stated the meaning of their intent in my previous paragraph of description. All one need do is READ those simple Scriptures. If you don't care to do that reading in simplicity, but instead want to argue grammar or some other silliness, then I don't have time for that.
You claimed that you could break down the scriptures line by line and now you're not following through on that. Maybe you shouldn't make those kind of claims if you're not going to follow through on them.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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For those interested about my declaration of the Scriptures about Jesus' return on the "day of the Lord" as written, see my thread about The Day of The LORD.
Day of The Lord - Day of Jesus' Future Return
Finally, you actually try to show why you believe what you do instead of just declaring that your view is right and amil is wrong without doing anything to show why you believe that. Thank you for finally doing that. Now, we can actually have a discussion of the scriptures instead of just saying "I'm right. You're wrong. The end."

But, how exactly do you see anyone surviving what is described in 2 Peter 3:3-13? It clearly teaches that the whole earth will be destroyed in the same sense that it was with the flood long ago except this time it will be by fire instead of water.
 
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Davy

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Finally, you actually try to show why you believe what you do instead of just declaring that your view is right and amil is wrong without doing anything to show why you believe that. Thank you for finally doing that.

Well, I declared it in my post #290 also, and referenced Scripture, but you have been SILENT on those Scripture references. So why don't you quit playing ignorant and address what those Scriptures declare as written?
 
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Well, I declared it in my post #290 also, and referenced Scripture, but you have been SILENT on those Scripture references. So why don't you quit playing ignorant and address what those Scriptures declare as written?
You didn't break them down. You just listed them. Break down at least one of them and then we can talk. Don't make me do all the work.
 
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