At What Point Do You Think You Are Truly Saved?

[Blade]

John 3:16 is clear. Rom 10:9-10 is clear.

 

[Mr. M]

Are you saved when you're
Called
Called and Chosen
Called, Chosen and Faithful

Some believe once saved always saved, with some scripture to suggest this. Some believe they can lose salvation, with some scripture to suggests this. I do not wish to argue, debate over this, just your thoughts on the above question, whichever side you're on.



Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him

We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.

Peace be with all those in the body of Christ

When you receive with meekness the engrafted word.
James 1:21

 

[Paladin67]

When you have a real relationship with Jesus and are trying to follow the example He led the best you can

 

[rockytopva]

Well that's what Paul said; but who listens to him?
How can we have church division with people like you around.
The important thing is my church interpretation of the scripture.

I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. - 2 Corinthians 11:3

 

[Dave L]

Which is why you don’t understand John 15:6 because someone failing to remain in Christ would destroy this idea.

“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” 1 John 5:4 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

Then you must be a universalist, since if God created humanity with no free choice to accept or reject him, then all must be saved. (John 3:16-17)

Christ died only for those God intended to save. Most perish.

 

[zoidar]

Christ died only for those God intended to save. Most perish.

Read these two parallelly:

God bless!

John 12:46-48
I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

John 3:16-18
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Dave L]

Read these two parallelly:

God bless!

John 12:46-48
I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

John 3:16-18
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You are misusing the term world. It means Jew and gentiles alike. Not every person. He told the Pharisees in Jn 10 the reason they did not believe was that he did not die for them. If Christ died for all, all would be saved. To say he died for all but did not save anyone is unscriptural (Isa. 53).

 

[zoidar]

You are misusing the term world. It means Jew and gentiles alike. Not every person. He told the Pharisees in Jn 10 the reason they did not believe was that he did not die for them. If Christ died for all, all would be saved. To say he died for all but did not save anyone is unscriptural (Isa. 53).

I see how one can use (wrongly I believe) Isa 53 as a proof for LA, but we should in that case have NT scriptures to verify this.

 

[Dave L]

I see how one can use (wrongly I believe) Isa 53 as a proof for LA, but we should in that case have NT scriptures to verify this.

Think about it for a minute. If Christ died for all and all are not saved, why not?

 

[zoidar]

You are misusing the term world. It means Jew and gentiles alike. Not every person. He told the Pharisees in Jn 10 the reason they did not believe was that he did not die for them. If Christ died for all, all would be saved. To say he died for all but did not save anyone is unscriptural (Isa. 53).

You have to look real hard to find anywhere in scripture that says that Jesus didn't die for a person, because there are non. But you can find things like he died for his people, the sheep etc.

I understand this like Jesus died for those that actually receives him, yet the atonement was universal, everybody's sin was borne on the cross.

Think about it for a minute. If Christ died for all and all are not saved, why not?

Because they are not united with the atonement offering, the crucified Christ through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Natto]

Some believe once saved always saved, with some scripture to suggest this. Some believe they can lose salvation,


I think I believe later. You can lose salvation, if one continue of not listening to what God Say and keep being oneself.

The reason I support this, I saw a testimony from you tube. It introduce a guy, a head of Gangster in Hong Kong, sale drug to world. It was initially ship from Thailand , then it would transferred to HK, then to the rest of world.
He said he was rich to the point to bribe soccer team, influenced its loss of game, to make great profit out of gambling in underworld . He even possessed super size disco in HK and casino in Tailand.

Dozen of priest and theologist visited him,and claimed that " There were only two famous head gangster, one is in shanghai , and the other one is him. " One priest asked him that how he wanted people commemorate of him after passing. Gangster head, just cried in agonized pain I am not worthy of people in memory of me
The more successful I become, the more guilty I am. I am scum of earth.
Priest kept persuading him to attend church service and wanted to give him a free gift, bible. He resisted to priest, I am not going to take your bible. His wife just took it for him and put it nearby his bed

That night before he rest, he pointed to bible that night, say to God " if you ever exist, please let me sleep, I have been embroiled with insomnia for long" Right after the prayer, he slept. When waking up, he feel utterly amazed and shocked , informing priests that he intended to attend church. But after he joined in church, his undertaking and underground business were doomed, casino started to lose money like hell,....He said it's literally impossible and probability is so low, since casino usually had involved some trick ,manipulation and scam ." How can a casino lose money on daily basis. He suspected that it must be influenced and done by Jesus..

Then he said after a years, lots of his business were closed by God. He almost went bankrupted and consulted a priest. Priest said, God wanted to save you from hell and close all your uncleaned underworld business. 7 years later, he confessed d to God, I could not defeat you,God., Maybe you want to save me, but you shall give my something to live.., But now I am no more fooled by your almighty. He just want to die.. All of sudden, he hear voice running through head.

you sat down in front of Big cross in your living room, with a big pot of water. While sitting there, he heard voice to close eyes. Then he arrived into gate of heaven with God. He saw a bunch of people wearing brown clothing face down. God told him, they are lining up for my judgment, and see who has my permission to go in.


Anyone who listen to my preaching and follow my command can walk in. Head Gangster asked God, "Isn't supposed that anyone who are Christian are saved the grace of God, and they could just walk into Heaven after passing. God replied to him and said , of course not," The dirt like you shall not get in" Gangster head asked God where he would proceed then . God said "look down" He watched down from cloud, seeing pitied soul are being trapped in chasm and abyss ,valley. Trapped soul would blast ,turn into flame and engulfed by fire later.
God just tell him to feel it for a second.

He kneel downed,grabbing his robe, and thanked God to show him extreme peace and joy of Heaven and scary torture of Hell. Head Gangster said heaven is beautiful beyond words. God told him to attend school of theology and command him to" build a church that exclusively collects gangsters.

when he went back , he really built a church exclusively collecting gangster only and try to turn them back to God.

 

[Dave L]

You have to look real hard to find anywhere in scripture that says that Jesus didn't die for a person, because there are non. But you can find thing like he died for his people, the sheep etc.

I understand this like Jesus died for those that actually receives him, yet the atonement was universal, everybody's sin was borne on the cross.



Because they are not united with the atonement offering, the crucified Christ through the Holy Spirit.

If he died for all, why aren't all saved?

 

[Psalm 27]

Matthew 4:17
Mark 1:15
Luke 13:3
John 3:1-21
John 6:68-69
John 20:28-29

 

[zoidar]

If he died for all, why aren't all saved?

I just told you :

Because they are not united with the atonement offering, the crucified Christ through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave L]

I just told you :

So they, not Jesus, are the savior of themselves?

 

[zoidar]

So they, not Jesus, are the savior of themselves?

Sometimes you are funny Dave! Your theology is giving you blinders. I don't know if it is that you don't want to see the truth, or if you actually can't see it.

God bless!

 

[Dave L]

Sometimes you are funny Dave! Your theology is giving you blinders. I don't know if it is that you don't want to see the truth, or if you actually can't see it.

God bless!

Did Jesus pay for our sins on the cross? Or merely make it possible for the self-righteous to save themselves?

 

[BNR32FAN]

oh I see all others are heretical, thanks for you "opinion"

Again your still avoiding my question. Why can’t you trust the interpretation of the Orthodox Church? It doesn’t contradict scripture it’s viewing scripture from another perspective. The same perspective that the men who declared the authenticity of the NT scriptures held. The very men whom you yourself said were disciples of the apostles. So why can’t you trust this interpretation if I’ve shown you evidence of what these men taught?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Christ died only for those God intended to save. Most perish.

How in the world can anyone believe this? The Bible is crystal clear.

John 1:29 Samaritans knew that the Messiah was the Savior of the world. And they weren't Calvinists who try to twist "world" into meaning only "world of the elect".

2 Cor 5:14,15 both verses SAY that Christ died for all. It doesn't say "all kinds of" or "all manner of". Just all. Not even "all men", which opens the door for Calvinists to insert their fantasy "all kinds of men" or "all manner of men". Nope. Just "all".

Christ didn't die for all manner of. Or all kinds of. That's for sure.

Heb 2:9 another verse that says Christ "tasted death for all". Again, "men" or "people" isn't in the Greek. Just "all". He died for all.

1 Tim 4:10 says That Christ is the Savior of all men, and especially of believers. If "all men" refers only to the "so-called elect", then Paul was just repeating himself by saying Christ is the Savior of all the elect, and especially of the elect, since that's what believers are, according to Calvinists.

1 John 4:14 says Christ was sent to be the Savior of the world. Again, NOT "world of the elect", as Calvinists fantasize.

The error propagated by Calvinists is that they believe that Christ's death on behalf of someone saves them. It doesn't. It frees the justice of God to give grace to everyone.

Rom 11:32 - For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Want to argue that "all" here only means "all manner/kinds of"?