Salvation and Calvinists

[All Glory To God]

Lemme just ask this final question. What must I do to be saved? And can I do it at this moment? Jesus said the time of salvation is now, today. I don't know how much time I have. Can I be saved and if so what must I do and am I able to do it?

OK this is what I understand about getting saved.

I believe to be saved you need to be born again, the details of this can be found in John chapter 3.

If this born again experience happens you will know when when you call out to the Lord, verbally or in prayer. This is like a marker. You should also trust and love God over time, accepting Christ.

 

[STommy]

OK this is what I understand about getting saved.

I believe to be saved you need to be born again, the details of this can be found in John chapter 3.

If this born again experience happens you will know when when you call out to the Lord, verbally or in prayer. This is like a marker. You should also trust and love God over time, accepting Christ.

And what happens if God doesn't birth me again even if I ask him to? What if he just says no? Either because I'm not sincere enough or because he hasn't chosen me.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Lemme just ask this final question. What must I do to be saved?

You're asking a Calvinist, who believes that God makes that decision. If that were true, then just sit on your butt and hope He chose you. But that is total nonsense, because the apostle Paul's answer to the jailer who asked that very question was this:

Believe (trust) in the Lord (Deity) Jesus (full humanity) Christ (Savior of mankind) and you WILL BE SAVED.

Now, either you believe what the Bible says, or you don't have any trust in what the Bible says.

And can I do it at this moment?

You or anyone else can trust what the Bible says about salvation any time they want. But everyone knows that trust cannot be forced. Only you know how you put your trust in anything, whether a person or thing.

Jesus said the time of salvation is now, today. I don't know how much time I have.

No one does. So you'd better figure out what's keeping you from putting your trust in what God says and what Jesus says.

Can I be saved and if so what must I do and am I able to do it?

Everyone can be saved. But ONLY those who place their trust in what Christ did for them on the cross will be saved.

This is not difficult. Calvinists sure have made it seem very difficult, with their unbiblical notions of what "election" even is.

Ignore them. Listen to the Bible. I gave you a very long list of verses that tell how to be saved and have eternal life.

But you just have to believe the verses.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And that is what I was asking you. If you believe salvation comes by decision to accept or reject Christ as saviour, why can't you show this man who wants to be saved the way to make the decision to be saved?

I have shown him. And I showed him what the apostle Paul told the jailer who asked the very same question. It's up to him to accept the free gift or not. This isn't difficult, but Calvinists have sure tried to make it very difficult.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is a question I have for my own personal salvation honestly. I have been trying to figure out how I can be saved but a big wrench in my searching is the whole "Calvinistic doctrine" as people call it. These Calvinists argue that I can't save myself, which I believe is true. But they say that I am predestined to either hell or heaven. Predestined to continue in sin or to repent and believe in Christ for my salvation. They basically teach that I have no free will but I am still responsible for if I go to hell or not. I am hopelessly confused by these teachings (predestination, free will, salvation.) I thought salvation was supposed to be simple but honestly it seems like most people who call themselves Christians can't even agree on how salvation works. I've seen constant arguing between Calvinists and others and now it has confused me, an unbeliever, to the point where I don't know what to do for salvation.

Do I repent and believe? Do I just hope that I have been predestined to be saved? Do I just ask God to save me?

And I'm afraid that no matter what I do I will be seeking salvation the wrong way. I've heard people even say that trying to seek faith in Christ or trying to believe is a work. Or that I am placing my faith in my faith instead of Christ (if that makes sense even.)

Some have said that repenting and believing is a work. And some have even said that salvation comes before repentance and belief. That only the elect will believe.

Do I just hope and beg God to save me? If I am not elect then he won't do it anyway. If I am not predestined he won't save me. That is what I've heard from Calvinists at least.

What if I am not one of the elect or predestined to be saved? As an unbeliever I am hopelessly confused as to how to be saved.

Try looking into the Orthodox teachings of the apostolic Church. Calvinism is less than 500 years old and has been rejected by every single church ever established by the apostles.

 

[FreeGrace2]

OK this is what I understand about getting saved.

I believe to be saved you need to be born again, the details of this can be found in John chapter 3.

Well, here is just more confusion and unbiblcal notions from the Calvinists.

Being "born again", or regeneration is what occurs WHEN a person puts their trust in Christ. It does NOT precede trusting in Christ, as Calvinists erroneously claim.

If this born again experience happens you will know when when you call out to the Lord, verbally or in prayer. This is like a marker. You should also trust and love God over time, accepting Christ.

No. You are just muddying the waters. Stop it, please.

Eph 2:5 makes it very clear that "being made alive" and "being saved" occur at the same time. They are equated. You cannot have either one with the other one.

Or, prove me wrong by showing from Scripture an unsaved regenerated person, or a saved unregenerated person. This is a direct challenge to your theology.

After Eph 2:5, v.8 is also very clear. We are saved THOUGH FAITH. That proves that faith MUST BE PRESENT before salvation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

We need to know what the Lord Jesus said, not what various schools of thought think that He meant. Don't worry about predestination. Jesus saves, not the "right" theology. Lord Jesus said that the one who said, "God be merciful to me a sinner" was made right with God.

If you are not one of the elect then you will have no interest in salvation. The fact that you care at all gives you 1,000 points in God's eyes. No one knows who is predestined and who is not. May I suggest that you read this:

The Way - Christian Life Frankston

This is not true since Calvinists resort teachings like evanescent grace when confronted with scriptures like John 15:6 and Galatians 5:4 that prove that people can lose their salvation. If eternal security is not true then predestination cannot be true.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And what happens if God doesn't birth me again even if I ask him to?

Good grief!! Please stop asking Calvinists anything! You don't get born again by asking for it.

God does the birthing of those who trust in Christ. You, along with the Calvinists, have the cart before the horse.

What if he just says no?

Please read every verse I have already shared with you regarding salvation and eternal life. They give you the answer.

Either because I'm not sincere enough or because he hasn't chosen me.

Calvinist nonsense. Totally. Please quit listening to them.

If they were right, there's NOTHING you can do to be saved. God has already chosen, according to them. That is nonsense.

Titus 2:11 says "For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to everyone."

This verse alone sinks the Calvinist boat. Salvation is offered to everyone. But only those who trust the promise of salvation through faith in Christ will be saved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is not true since Calvinists resort teachings like evanescent grace when confronted with scriptures like John 15:6 and Galatians 5:4 that prove that people can lose their salvation. If eternal security is not true then predestination cannot be true.

Well, STommy, here's what I warned you about. Arminians who will tell you that you can lose salvation. And the 2 verses he cited don't teach that salvation can be lost. So please ignore the Arminians just as much as the Calvinists. Neither theology understands the Bible.

Predestination isn't even about salvation, as 32 opines. Rom 8:29 says, "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters."

That's clearly NOT about salvation. Believers are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Totally different than salvation.

 

[All Glory To God]

Well, here is just more confusion and unbiblcal notions from the Calvinists.

Being "born again", or regeneration is what occurs WHEN a person puts their trust in Christ. It does NOT precede trusting in Christ, as Calvinists erroneously claim.

I never even mentioned the order of regeneration, I just answered the question of the OP, what I think he needs to do to be saved.

No. You are just muddying the waters. Stop it, please.

Eph 2:5 makes it very clear that "being made alive" and "being saved" occur at the same time. They are equated. You cannot have either one with the other one.

Or, prove me wrong by showing from Scripture an unsaved regenerated person, or a saved unregenerated person. This is a direct challenge to your theology.

After Eph 2:5, v.8 is also very clear. We are saved THOUGH FAITH. That proves that faith MUST BE PRESENT before salvation.

Not really understanding your point about ''"being made alive" and "being saved" occur at the same time'' but if it's related to supporting a free agency potion you need to take the whole book of Ephesians in Context. The following verses exclude self willed salvation or ''works'' and also confirms we are created for the ministry beforehand, not in real-time.

Epesians 2:9-10
not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[All Glory To God]

I have shown him. And I showed him what the apostle Paul told the jailer who asked the very same question. It's up to him to accept the free gift or not. This isn't difficult, but Calvinists have sure tried to make it very difficult.

Why doesn't this man, Tommy the OP take the free gift if it's as easy as you say? It sounds like he wants to, he is enthusiastically inquiring about salvation?

 

[All Glory To God]

Try looking into the Orthodox teachings of the apostolic Church. Calvinism is less than 500 years old and has been rejected by every single church ever established by the apostles.

How old is the eastern orthodox church? 800 years old?

And credible people held Reformed doctrines a lot longer then 500 years ago.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes. Umm I can explain it this way. Are you married? If you're not think of something else special in your life like a graduation or something. The day you met your wife (or graduat3d) was it at just the right the right time or was it a random chance?

It was at just the right moment right? You meet you fall in love and you talk to her. That is a gift from God. The same goes with salvation. God has a day planned for your salvation just like he has a day planned for you to die or graduate, or really everything.

This is a lie from the pit of hell. You are encouraging him to just sit back and wait and see if he gets saved or not and there's nothing he can do but wait. Calvinism removes the urgency of it, which is shameful!

If he just waits around to see if God saves him or not he can end up turning away from God. Calvinism makes warnings like the following mean nothing and just turns them into idle threats.

Hebrews 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said: Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.

Calvinism says wait for tomorrow to see if God saves you or not. Scripture says to examine yourself TODAY and for us to encourage each other TODAY to make sure we don't develop an "unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God".

Tommy, God wants you to humble yourself, confess that you are a sinner in need of mercy and forgiveness and give your life to Jesus Christ today to make Him your Lord and Savior. Do not wait or else you may run out of time and you could develop an "unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God".

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Well how do I believe in Christ? How do I know if I am actually elect and chosen by God or if I am just decieving myself?

Hi Tommy. Can you please tell me what you currently believe about Jesus Christ?

Do you believe He is God (John 1)?

Do you believe He died for your sins and rose again from the dead on the 3rd day and still lives today?

Do you love Jesus more than anything or anyone including any of your family members? And are you willing to die for Him if you had to?

Matthew 10:37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I don't believe in the sense that I have faith in Christ as my savior. I do believe the Bible is true. I have not repented. I desire sin and wickedness, but I don't want to desire it. But honestly it seems like God just is gonna leave me to die because I'm too far gone.

Tommy, no one is too far gone. Did you know Paul considered himself the chief of sinners (worst of sinners) and yet he was obviously saved.

1 Timothy 1:15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

Please don't believe the lie that you're too far gone. We're all sinners in need of God's forgiveness and it's not based on how much sin we've done as we can see from Paul's example. Christ's blood will cover all of your sins if you ask Him to forgive you.

 

[STommy]

Hi Tommy. Can you please tell me what you currently believe about Jesus Christ?

Do you believe He is God (John 1)?

Do you believe He died for your sins and rose again from the dead on the 3rd day and still lives today?

Do you love Jesus more than anything or anyone including any of your family members? And are you willing to die for Him if you had to?

Matthew 10:37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

I believe Jesus is God. I know what his sacrifice on the cross was for. And I know it forgives the sins of who will come to him. But I am honestly being torn apart by all the debate in the christian community. The whole predestination thing. I don't love the Lord. I want to. I don't have faith. I want to have it. I want to love the Lord but apparently I am not able to because God won't let me according to some people.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

OK this is what I understand about getting saved.

I believe to be saved you need to be born again, the details of this can be found in John chapter 3.

If this born again experience happens you will know when when you call out to the Lord, verbally or in prayer. This is like a marker. You should also trust and love God over time, accepting Christ.

Scripture never teaches that you need to be born again before being saved. Instead, it teaches that to be saved is to be born again. They mean the same thing. The moment we receive the Holy Spirit into our hearts is the moment we are saved and born again.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I believe Jesus is God. I know what his sacrifice on the cross was for. And I know it forgives the sins of who will come to him. But I am honestly being torn apart by all the debate in the christian community.

It's unfortunate that Calvinism has confused you. Please believe me that the truth is not confusing.

The whole predestination thing. I don't love the Lord. I want to. I don't have faith. I want to have it.

The fact that you want to have faith is a great sign. Please hold on to that while you work out what you should do about this.

What do you think it is that prevents you from having faith? I believe that we must humble ourselves before Christ and give our lives over to Him so that He can be our Lord as well as our Savior. Have you ever done that? Do you love Christ more than anyone or anything as He expects of us? What do you think of this passage:

Matthew 10:37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

I want to love the Lord but apparently I am not able to because God won't let me according to some people.

That is a lie. Scripture does not teach that anywhere. Instead, it teaches that God wants all people to repent and to be saved (Acts 17:30-31, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Tim 2:3-6) and He loved the whole world enough to send His Son to die for the sins of the whole world so that anyone in the world who puts their faith in Him will be saved and have eternal life (John 3:16, 1 John 2:1-2). So, that includes you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I never even mentioned the order of regeneration, I just answered the question of the OP, what I think he needs to do to be saved.

Actually, you did "mention" the order of regeneration, by the inference in what you did post. And no one is saved by regeneration, or election. If you have verses that actually say what you think, please share.

I explained how Eph 2:5 and 8 show that regeneration and being saved occur together, and are the RESULT of faith.

Not really understanding your point about ''"being made alive" and "being saved" occur at the same time'' but if it's related to supporting a free agency potion you need to take the whole book of Ephesians in Context.

Are you suggesting or claiming that the "whole book" teaches something opposite to Eph 2:5 and 8? Please explain.

The following verses exclude self willed salvation or ''works'' and also confirms we are created for the ministry beforehand, not in real-time.

It is only a Calvinist error to claim "self willed salvation" is a work. Besides, there is no such thing as "self willed salvation". That is bogus.

Salvation is given to those who believe, as I proved from 1 Cor 1:21, which says that God is pleased to save those who believe. Are you cognizant of the clearly implied order here. God saves those who believe. So, what comes first here? Obviously, believing comes first. Then God saves.

Epesians 2:9-10
not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Faith precludes works.

Rom 9:32 - Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

Do you see the contrast here? Faith and works. So believing CANNOT be considered a work.

And, just to be clear, your words "self willed" are quite deceiving. There is no such thing.

No one "wills" themself into believing something. Believing is simply a choice of whether to believe or disbelieve what is presented.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why doesn't this man, Tommy the OP take the free gift if it's as easy as you say?

Because he has said he doesn't have faith in Christ. That means he doesn't believe what Jesus said. Not real difficult.

It sounds like he wants to, he is enthusiastically inquiring about salvation?

Not really sure about that. For all I know, he could be some kind of "plant", with the goal of sowing ill will seed among believers.

His various statements do not agree, and I have pointed that out to him.

I would guess at this point he is merely trying to get believers to fight over their theologies.