Is the thousand years of Revelation chapter 20 symbolic?

[Timtofly]

Notice that it says they were bound with everlasting chains while being reserved for judgment. That means, regardless of when they were first bound, they would be bound until judgment day. And, yet, they still were able to be active after that. This shows that fallen angels being bound has nothing to do with them not being able to do anything at all.

Yet you have no proof they have been active. Bound is bound. Anything else is opinion.

 

[Zao is life]

It was fun to agree even for a very short time. Oh well. Where does scripture itself say what you're saying here? I don't believe it does. Instead, scripture says there's an order to the resurrection of the dead unto bodily immortality.

1 Cor 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This is very clear. Christ was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality. That's the first resurrection and all believers have part in it spiritually. A first implies a second. The next resurrection (the second) in order will be those who belong to Christ (the dead in Christ - 1 Thess 4:13-17) and they will be resurrected at His second coming.

I will have to answer your assertions in different posts because of length of the posts:

Let's look at the two aspects of this that your brought up in the above part of your post - and it's extremely important for all saints to understand this correctly, because Amil theology has got this all totally muddled up (as can be seen by what you say above):

(A) 1 Cor 15
20 But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept.
21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

When Adam died, death came to mankind. SO therefore, how many times did death occur? Was Seth's death the "second death"? Was Lamech born alive and his death the millionth death? Or the billionth?

There has always been only one death - and it was Adam's death:

21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

Christ is the last Adam, and He IS the resurrection:

John 11
23 Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again.
24 Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?

It would not be incorrect to speak about Adam's death as the first-fruit of all death, because there is only ONE death - it's in Adam; and there is only ONE resurrection - and it's in Christ, who is the last Adam, who is also the Son of Man, meaning He represents all mankind, just as the first Adam did.

1 Cor 15
45 And so it is written, "The first man, Adam, was made a living soul," the last Adam was a life-giving Spirit.

There is only one resurrection from the dead in God's creation - and it's in Christ, who is the Son of God, and the Son of Man, the last Adam. He meant what He said when He said,

"I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live."

The death of every son of Adam that has taken place after Adam, is part of the first death. The resurrection of any Son of God that takes place after Christ's resurrection is part of the first resurrection.

A "second death" can therefore only come after a resurrection from death. THIS IS WHY Revelation chapter 20 speaks of those who are seen living and reigning with Christ after having been beheaded for their witness to Him and gaining victory over the mark of the beast, as having been part of the first resurrection. The first resurrection is Christ's, is it not? The resurrection from the dead is in Christ, the last Adam, is it not? The second death can only come after the resurrection from the dead.

This fact is confirmed elsewhere in scripture when we are told - again by Paul who spoke in such great detail about this - that the resurrection of those who die in Christ, takes place (Greek) synegeiro - WITH Christ's resurrection. Death has always taken place WITH Adam's death, the resurrection takes place WITH the last Adam's resurrection:

Colossians 3:1
"If ye then be risen with [συνεγείρω synegeírō] Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."

Compare this with Romans 6:5:
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

Those of us who are baptized into Him are baptized into His death, and into His resurrection. He is the last Adam. This is also why Jesus' resurrection is called the first resurrection:

First (Greek) πρῶτον prōton:-

Acts 26:23
"That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first (πρῶτον prōton) that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Revelation 20:6
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first (πρῶτον prōton) resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

(B) 1 Thess 4
13 But I would not have you ignorant, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, that you be not grieved, even as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him all those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
15 For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The dead in Christ will rise first - that includes the two witnesses - unless you choose to add into the scriptures second and third and fourth resurrections, something like "Platoon 1, RISE!; "Platoon 2, wait until Platoon 1 has risen". "OK, Platoon 2, your turn - RISE!" etc etc

Nope, that's not what scripture says - it simply tells us that those who died in Christ shall rise first - and this would of course include the two witnesses - and then those who are still alive and remain shall be caught up together with them, to meet the Lord in the air. Their time to take part in the first resurrection will have come, and the second death will have no power over them.

I will answer the rest of the many issues in your posts that IMHO Amill has caused the saints (including yourself) to have all muddled up, as I get the time.

 

[Timtofly]

I believe premil underestimates the impact Christ's death, resurrection and ascension to heaven had on Satan. It bound him from keeping people from knowing God and making people to be "without hope and without God in the world" and it bound him from making people slaves to their fear of death like he was able to do before Christ came.

I believe that is slander, saying people believe one way, to make a strong theological point.

Satan's deception is both physical and spiritual. Only the second coming will change that. The church has always had more power than Satan. Even Cain had more power than Satan.

God has never ever given Satan power to do as he pleases. So your point in deceiving the nations "less than" is mute. You are giving Satan more power, just to take it away. No thank you.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Many Amill's I have spoken to do in fact claim all the dead rise at the same time. Glad that you don't subscribe to that.

They believe the same as I do. It's basically the same time since they are all resurrected when Christ comes, but it's not at the same exact moment, which we don't normally clarify. But we should. And I'm trying to get in the practice of doing that.

But, what I can't see John 5:28-29 saying at all is that the one hour or time that is coming can be stretched out to 1000+ years. Also, passages like Matt 25:31-46 clearly show the saved and lost being judged at the same time and I see no basis for thinking that it doesn't include the dead who will be resurrected at Christ's second coming.

Except Christ inserted a thousand years inbetween. The whole "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" proves there is a thousand years inbetween.

Amils agree that there is a long time between the first resurrection and second resurrection, but we don't see it as being a literal thousand years and we don't see the first resurrection as occurring at Christ's second coming. Paul said Christ's resurrection is the first resurrection, so the resurrection that occurs at His coming cannot be the first (1 Cor 15:22-23).

If you think the thousand years has to be a literal thousand years and you think that the 42 months and 1260 days mentioned in Revelation are also literal then do you believe the following is describing a literal one hour (60 minutes) of time?

Rev 17:8 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

Is this really saying that these ten kings will receive authority for only 60 minutes? That would be ridiculous, right? What could they even do in that amount of time? It's clearly being figurative. So, why can't the thousand years be figurative as well?

Is the following referring to a literal thousand generations?

Deut 7:9 Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.

Is this a figurative thousand generations or is this saying that those of the 1001st generation would be out of luck because God's covenant will have expired at that point? You know the answer.

Psalm 50:9 I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens, 10 for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.

Is this referring to a figurative thousand hills or do the cattle on the 1001st hill not belong to God?

Not a "single" time but just a time when the dead would rise. Two separate resurrections with a thousand years inbetween satisfies this.

I disagree. You are turning one time into two times. What you're saying would mean Jesus would have said "For two times are coming when all of the dead are raised".

Again, most Amill's I have spoken to during the last couple decades did not admit to a second resurrection.

We don't believe in a first mass bodily resurrection and a second one. Some amils like myself see Christ's resurrection specifically as being the first bodily resurrection unto immortality. But all amils believe that the way to have part in the first resurrection is spiritually by way of being raised spiritually from being dead in sins to raised up to be alive with Christ (Eph 2:1-6, John 5:24-25).

Only believers have part in the first resurrection and the rest of the dead (unbelievers) do not have part in any resurrection until they are resurrected for the judgment. Believers will be bodily resurrected for the judgment as well (2 Cor 5:10, Romans 14:10-12, Matt 25:31-46) but we, of course, will be rewarded rather than condemned.

That isn't what is found in the context of Revelation 20 where the first resurrection is the first of two mass bodily resurrections.

That is your interpretation, but it contradicts a great deal of scripture, in my opinion.

I'm not just talking about the scriptures which talk about the resurrection of all the dead happening at the same time (Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29, Acts 24:15) and the saved and lost being judged at the same time (Matt 13:40-43, Matt 13:47-50, Matt 25:31-46), but also those which indicate that all believers will have immortal bodies when Christ comes (1 Cor 15:50-54) while all unbelievers are killed (Matt 24:36-39, 1 Thess 5:1-6, 2 Peter 3:3-13, 2 Thess 1:7-10, Rev 19:18, Rev 20:9). That doesn't allow for any mortal human beings to survive into an earthly millennial kingdom.

The resurrection at the second coming is the first of two that will happen. One at his coming and one more after the thousand years is over. "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" proves this.

I have shown an alternative way of understanding the first and second resurrections, so you haven't proven anything except that you have a different interpretation than mine.

 

[Timtofly]

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

Yes, as keeper of sheol, Satan has the power of death, but that was broken, when Abraham's bosom was emptied. Paradise was sealed from Adam and all mankind. They were placed in sheol under his watch, but after the Cross, no more. Paradise is now opened and death is over. Absent from the body, present with the Lord. Taking that point and equating it to the deception of the Nations is way out of context.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I believe that is slander, saying people believe one way, to make a strong theological point.

Satan's deception is both physical and spiritual. Only the second coming will change that. The church has always had more power than Satan. Even Cain had more power than Satan.

God has never ever given Satan power to do as he pleases. So your point in deceiving the nations "less than" is mute. You are giving Satan more power, just to take it away. No thank you.

How is it slander? What you're saying here proves my point. What you're saying here shows that you believe Christ's death had little, if any, impact on Satan just as I've seen other premils indicate before.

What do you think it means in Hebrews 2:14-15 when it says that Jesus broke "the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil"?

How do you interpret the following verse:

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I will have to answer your assertions in different posts because of length of the posts:

Let's look at the two aspects of this that your brought up in the above part of your post - and it's extremely important for all saints to understand this correctly, because Amil theology has got this all totally muddled up (as can be seen by what you say above):

(A) 1 Cor 15
20 But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept.
21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

When Adam died, death came to mankind. SO therefore, how many times did death occur? Was Seth's death the "second death"? Was Lamech born alive and his death the millionth death? Or the billionth?

There has always been only one death - and it was Adam's death:

21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

Christ is the last Adam, and He IS the resurrection:

John 11
23 Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again.
24 Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?

It would not be incorrect to speak about Adam's death as the first-fruit of all death, because there is only ONE death - it's in Adam; and there is only ONE resurrection - and it's in Christ, who is the last Adam, who is also the Son of Man, meaning He represents all mankind, just as the first Adam did.

1 Cor 15
45 And so it is written, "The first man, Adam, was made a living soul," the last Adam was a life-giving Spirit.

There is only one resurrection from the dead in God's creation - and it's in Christ, who is the Son of God, and the Son of Man, the last Adam. He meant what He said when He said,

"I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live."

The death of every son of Adam that has taken place after Adam, is part of the first death. The resurrection of any Son of God that takes place after Christ's resurrection is part of the first resurrection.

A "second death" can therefore only come after a resurrection from death. THIS IS WHY Revelation chapter 20 speaks of those who are seen living and reigning with Christ after having been beheaded for their witness to Him and gaining victory over the mark of the beast, as having been part of the first resurrection. The first resurrection is Christ's, is it not? The resurrection from the dead is in Christ, the last Adam, is it not? The second death can only come after the resurrection from the dead.

This fact is confirmed elsewhere in scripture when we are told - again by Paul who spoke in such great detail about this - that the resurrection of those who die in Christ, takes place (Greek) synegeiro - WITH Christ's resurrection. Death has always taken place WITH Adam's death, the resurrection takes place WITH the last Adam's resurrection:

Colossians 3:1
"If ye then be risen with [συνεγείρω synegeírō] Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."

Compare this with Romans 6:5:
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

These verses are speaking of us being spiritually risen with Christ as we all have been already. They are not speaking of our bodily resurrection. Notice that they are speaking in present tense so they are speaking of a present reality for believers, not a future one. So, what you're saying here actually lines up with how amils understand the first resurrection. Those passages should be understood in the same context as passages like this:

Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.

Would you agree that this is speaking of being made spiritually alive with Christ and raised up with Christ after previously being spiritually dead in transgressions and sins? If so, then you should see that the reference here to be raised up with Christ should be understood in the same context as the Colossians 3:1 reference to being "risen with Christ".

Those of us who are baptized into Him are baptized into His death, and into His resurrection. He is the last Adam. This is also why Jesus' resurrection is called the first resurrection:

First (Greek) πρῶτον prōton:-

Acts 26:23
"That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first (πρῶτον prōton) that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Revelation 20:6
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first (πρῶτον prōton) resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Passages like Ephesians 2:1-6, Colossians 3:1 and Romans 6:4-6 talks about how we spiritually have part in Christ's resurrection when we're saved. That's what I believe Rev 20:6 is about. John sees the souls of dead believers and they had part in Christ's resurrection which is why they are in heaven instead of hell.

(B) 1 Thess 4
13 But I would not have you ignorant, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, that you be not grieved, even as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him all those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
15 For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The dead in Christ will rise first - that includes the two witnesses - unless you choose to add into the scriptures second and third and fourth resurrections, something like "Platoon 1, RISE!; "Platoon 2, wait until Platoon 1 has risen". "OK, Platoon 2, your turn - RISE!" etc etc

You are missing the context here. This is not saying the dead in Christ rise first as if they are the first to rise from the dead. No, Paul made it clear in 1 Cor 15:22-23 that there is an order to the resurrection of the dead because He said the resurrections occur "each in turn" with Christ's being the first long ago and next being those who are His at His second coming.

The only context in which the dead rise first in this passage is that they rise first before those who are alive and remain are caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. Paul made it clear that those who are alive and remain "will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep" (1 Thess 4:15). The order of resurrections is not what the dead in Christ rising first means in this passage. Instead, it is the order of those who would be caught up to meet the Lord in the air that Paul talked about.

 

[Zao is life]

I will have to answer your assertions in different posts because of length of the posts:

Let's look at the two aspects of this that your brought up in the above part of your post - and it's extremely important for all saints to understand this correctly, because Amil theology has got this all totally muddled up (as can be seen by what you say above):

(A) 1 Cor 15
20 But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept.
21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

When Adam died, death came to mankind. SO therefore, how many times did death occur? Was Seth's death the "second death"? Was Lamech born alive and his death the millionth death? Or the billionth?

There has always been only one death - and it was Adam's death:

21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

Christ is the last Adam, and He IS the resurrection:

John 11
23 Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again.
24 Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?

It would not be incorrect to speak about Adam's death as the first-fruit of all death, because there is only ONE death - it's in Adam; and there is only ONE resurrection - and it's in Christ, who is the last Adam, who is also the Son of Man, meaning He represents all mankind, just as the first Adam did.

1 Cor 15
45 And so it is written, "The first man, Adam, was made a living soul," the last Adam was a life-giving Spirit.

There is only one resurrection from the dead in God's creation - and it's in Christ, who is the Son of God, and the Son of Man, the last Adam. He meant what He said when He said,

"I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live."

The death of every son of Adam that has taken place after Adam, is part of the first death. The resurrection of any Son of God that takes place after Christ's resurrection is part of the first resurrection.

A "second death" can therefore only come after a resurrection from death. THIS IS WHY Revelation chapter 20 speaks of those who are seen living and reigning with Christ after having been beheaded for their witness to Him and gaining victory over the mark of the beast, as having been part of the first resurrection. The first resurrection is Christ's, is it not? The resurrection from the dead is in Christ, the last Adam, is it not? The second death can only come after the resurrection from the dead.

This fact is confirmed elsewhere in scripture when we are told - again by Paul who spoke in such great detail about this - that the resurrection of those who die in Christ, takes place (Greek) synegeiro - WITH Christ's resurrection. Death has always taken place WITH Adam's death, the resurrection takes place WITH the last Adam's resurrection:

Colossians 3:1
"If ye then be risen with [συνεγείρω synegeírō] Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."

Compare this with Romans 6:5:
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

Those of us who are baptized into Him are baptized into His death, and into His resurrection. He is the last Adam. This is also why Jesus' resurrection is called the first resurrection:

First (Greek) πρῶτον prōton:-

Acts 26:23
"That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first (πρῶτον prōton) that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Revelation 20:6
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first (πρῶτον prōton) resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

(B) 1 Thess 4
13 But I would not have you ignorant, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, that you be not grieved, even as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him all those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
15 For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The dead in Christ will rise first - that includes the two witnesses - unless you choose to add into the scriptures second and third and fourth resurrections, something like "Platoon 1, RISE!; "Platoon 2, wait until Platoon 1 has risen". "OK, Platoon 2, your turn - RISE!" etc etc

Nope, that's not what scripture says - it simply tells us that those who died in Christ shall rise first - and this would of course include the two witnesses - and then those who are still alive and remain shall be caught up together with them, to meet the Lord in the air. Their time to take part in the first resurrection will have come, and the second death will have no power over them.

I will answer the rest of the many issues in your posts that IMHO Amill has caused the saints (including yourself) to have all muddled up, as I get the time.

So, further to the above (first read the above if you never read it, because if you don't you will not follow the rest below):

1 Corinthians 15
20 But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept.
21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
22 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ ALL will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;
24 then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.
25 for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy made to cease is death.

"But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;"

"or as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ ALL will be made alive."

Those who are Christ's at His coming will be raised at His coming. The second death will have no power over them (Rev 20:6). When will the rest of mankind - the rest of the 'ALL' who the last Adam and Son of Man represents, be raised?

Revelation 20
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And a place was not found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Question:

How much time passes between the resurrection of those who are Christ's at His coming (over whom the second death has no power), and the resurrection of the rest of the "ALL" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:22?

I'm not going to guess. The Bible says it's a thousand years. Many argue against what the Bible says. I'm not one of the many who argue against what the Bible says.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Those angels are the Gen 6 angels. It doesn't include Satan as he was roaming around freely in Job, to tempt Christ and possess Judas, roaming around as a lion as one writer described. Satan is not confined to the pit until the conclusion of the second coming. His fallen angels aren't mentioned by name in Revelation but they would be imprisoned when he was. I am not sure if they are allowed to be released when Satan is. I suspect Satan is released alone after the conclusion of the thousand years but doesn't matter much if angels are released with him or not.

Those verses speak of the angels who did not keep their authority because they sinned against God. What fallen angel, including Satan, doesn't fit that description? And notice that it says they were reserved in everlasting chains for judgment which means they are in everlasting chains until judgment day. So, that clearly mean that their binding does not mean they are not able to do anything at all.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

So, further to the above (first read the above if you never read it, because if you don't you will not follow the rest below):

1 Corinthians 15
20 But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept.
21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
22 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ ALL will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;
24 then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.
25 for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy made to cease is death.

"But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;"

"or as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ ALL will be made alive."

Those who are Christ's at His coming will be raised at His coming. The second death will have no power over them (Rev 20:6). When will the rest of mankind - the rest of the 'ALL' who the last Adam and Son of Man represents, be raised?

Revelation 20
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And a place was not found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Question:

How much time passes between the resurrection of those who are Christ's at His coming (over whom the second death has no power), and the resurrection of the rest of the "ALL" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:22?

I'm not going to guess. The Bible says it's a thousand years. Many argue against what the Bible says. I'm not one of the many who argue against what the Bible says.

The "ALL" being made alive referenced in 1 Cor 15:22 is speaking only of all of the dead in Christ. That can be clearly seen by the fact that the next verse only mentions Christ's resurrection and theirs when it talks about the order of resurrections. The resurrection of the unsaved is not mentioned there at all because that doesn't relate to the point Paul was making which related to the bodily resurrection unto bodily immortality with Christ being the first and then later those who are His at His second coming.

 

[Zao is life]

These verses are speaking of us being spiritually risen with Christ as we all have been already. They are not speaking of our bodily resurrection.

You and I will never agree, because you add to the scriptures all the time. There is no such thing as a "spiritual"resurrection: OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS: Is there such a thing as a "spiritual" resurrection in the Bible?

My post will be too long and will not be accepted if I have to explain your fallacy - but I have proved in Post #1222 and Post #1228 in this thread, and in the link above, that your "spiritual" resurrection is a fallacy.

Please do not take this up personally:

I'm not going to talk to you about this anymore.

The reason being, IMO what you (and all who follow Amill theology) are doing, is repeatedly and constantly adding to scripture, then taking away from scripture, and reading things into scripture which do not exist, and you all do this because your mind is - yes - brainwashed and muddied - with Amil theology.

So my OP stands, and remains true. My Posts #1222 and Post #1228 stand, and remain true.

Your fallacies remain your fallacies.

I'm sorry, and I hope you do not take this personally, but I'm out of this debate with you. I don't have the patience. You came into the thread too late, and did not read all the replies given by Premils to the many, many false assertions you make, so you make the same false assertions already made by other Amils and already answered.

I'm also sorry to have to say this, but honestly, I've come to realize that debating Amils and trying to answer their hundreds (if not thousands) of false notions and false interpretations of scripture, is as bad as trying to debate Jehovah's Witnesses (which I have done, and will never do again). Like the JW's hold onto their false doctrines, Amils will hold onto this false Amil theology "come what may".

I'm not saying that Amils are in as serious error as the JW's are (not nearly). A believe the JW's believe in Premil, but even so, their error in their belief regarding the Trinity, Christ and the Holy Spirit is far, far more serous and makes them a cult. Amils are part of main-stream Christianity but are nevertheless as brainwashed by the false Amil theology as the JW's are brainwashed by the false doctrines they believe in.

I'm too old to be able to maintain patience with people who repeatedly call fallacy "fact".

This does not mean Amils are not born-again, saved, saints who belong to Christ. It just means they have a veil over their eyes which cannot be removed except through prayer and by the Holy Spirit. So I will be praying for you and for all Amils and for all the saints.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yet you have no proof they have been active. Bound is bound. Anything else is opinion.

Do you not think they have been? If not, what do you make of this:

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Who are the rulers, authorities, powers and "spiritual forces of evil" that this passage is talking about? They don't have flesh and blood, so it's not humans. It clearly is speaking of fallen angels here, including the devil, and that we have to put on the full armor of God in order to stand against them.

 

[Zao is life]

The "ALL" being made alive referenced in 1 Cor 15:22 is speaking only of all of the dead in Christ. That can be clearly seen by the fact that the next verse only mentions Christ's resurrection and theirs when it talks about the order of resurrections. The resurrection of the unsaved is not mentioned there at all because that doesn't relate to the point Paul was making which related to the bodily resurrection unto bodily immortality with Christ being the first and then later those who are His at His second coming.

As I said in my post #1231, you add to scripture and take away from scripture - so often, that it almost seems as though it's done at your own whim and fancy - far too often for me to be prepared to debate this issue with you any more.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You and I will never agree, because you add to the scriptures all the time.

I believe you do the same. You have many private interpretations of certain passages that even no other premils have. That raises a red flag as God does not reveal truth to just one person.

There is no such thing as a "spiritual"resurrection: OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS: Is there such a thing as a "spiritual" resurrection in the Bible?

I honestly don't care what you call it when scripture talks about us being dead in our sins and then made spiritually alive in Christ such as in passages like Ephesians 2:1-6. Whatever you want to call that, it's how I believe we have part in Christ's resurrection, which is the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20, Rev 1:5, etc.).

My post will be too long and will not be accepted if I have to explain your fallacy - but I have proved in Post #1222 and Post #1228 in this thread, and in the link above, that your "spiritual" resurrection is a fallacy.

You have proved nothing except that your interpretation differs from mine. You have done a good job o proving that.

Please do not take this up personally:

I'm not going to talk to you about this anymore.

The reason being, IMO what you (and all who follow Amill theology) are doing, is repeatedly and constantly adding to scripture, then taking away from scripture, and reading things into scripture which do not exist, and you all do this because your mind is - yes - brainwashed and muddied - with Amil theology.

How can I be brainwashed when a vast majority of what I believe is the result of my own studies that just happen to agree with amil? You have no idea of what you're talking about here. How do I add to scripture when I take a passage like 2 Peter 3:3-13 at face value because it says all of the wicked, including the scoffers who scoff at the idea of Christ coming again, will be destroyed at His coming and even the earth itself will be burned up on that day? You are the one who adds a thousand year time period to that passage that doesn't fit. And you do the same for many other passages.

So my OP stands, and remains true. My Posts #1222 and Post #1228 stand, and remain true.

Your fallacies remain your fallacies.

That is your OPINION and nothing more. You stating that as fact shows your arrogance and your need to humble yourself. I believe your doctrine is a fallacy, but I'm also willing to acknowledge that is my OPINION rather than saying it is a FACT as you do.

I'm sorry, and I hope you do not take this personally, but I'm out of this debate with you.

That is fine with me. There's plenty of other people to talk to about this on here who are able to keep from resorting to personal insults.

I don't have the patience. You came into the thread too late, and did not read all the replies given by Premils to the many, many false assertions you make, so you make the same false assertions already made by other Amils and already answered.

You are actually going to criticize me for having other things to do while you were discussing this with someone else? Are you kidding me? No one is putting a gun to your head to reply to me. If I said something someone already said, then just let it go or tell me to look at a certain post number where you already addressed it instead of having this temper tantrum and acting like a child.

I'm also sorry to have to say this, but honestly, I've come to realize that debating Amils and trying to answer their hundreds (if not thousands) of false notions and false interpretations of scripture, is as bad as trying to debate Jehovah's Witnesses (which I have done, and will never do again). Like the JW's, hold onto their false doctrines, Amils will hold onto this false Amil theology "come what may".

I'm not saying that Amils are in as serious error as the JW's are (not nearly). A believe the JW's believe in Premil, but even so, their error in their belief regarding the Trinity, Christ and the Holy Spirit is far, far more serous and makes them a cult. Amils are part of main-stream Christianity but are nevertheless as brainwashed by the false Amil theology as the JW's are brainwashed by the false doctrines they believe in.

You are talking to the wrong person about brainwashing. I know some people get all their understanding and knowledge from the writings of teachers who teach the doctrines they believe in. That is not the case for me. I have done many hours of my own study and amil is the truth that I have come to because of those studies. You accusing me of being brainwashed is very insulting. I would not do that to you. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm too old to be able to maintain patience with people who repeatedly call fallacy "fact".

You are the one who claims that your OPINIONS are FACTS. I don't do that. While I am very confident that my doctrine is correct, I also fully acknowledge that it is my interpretation and opinion and not proveable fact in the way you can prove that 1+1 = 2.

This does not mean Amils are not born-again, saved, saints who belong to Christ. It just means they have a veil over their eyes which cannot be removed except through prayer and by the Holy Spirit.

I believe the same about premils. So be it. But, I would never compare them to Jehovah's Witnesses or any other cult even if it's only in a certain sense because that is insulting and you know it. And you don't care because you're a nasty person who does not act very Christ-like with anyone who dares disagree with you on something.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The word does not only mean negative judgment.

But it does a vast majority of the time and every other time it's used in the book of Revelation (which is several times). Does that not mean anything to you? I believe that is strong evidence that it is used that way in Rev 11:18 as well. And it also mentions the destruction of those who destroy the earth, so unbelievers are clearly in view in that passage as well.

 

[Zao is life]

I believe the same about premils. So be it. But, I would never compare them to Jehovah's Witnesses or any other cult even if it's only in a certain sense because that is insulting and you know it. And you don't care because you're a nasty person who does not act very Christ-like with anyone who dares disagree with you on something.

The same, going by your posts and the words you choose when you disagree with people, and things like what I called you about about, can be said of you - "And you don't care because you're a nasty person who does not act very Christ-like with anyone who dares disagree with you on something."

Mud-slinging is your specialty, I see.

 

[BABerean2]

This refutes your recap. In Revelation 20, Jesus Christ is in Jerusalem, and Satan is marching to Jerusalem. In Revelation 18, Satan is in Jerusalem, and Christ is marching to Jerusalem. This role reversal refutes the man made opinion of recap. The thousand years begins after Christ ousted the beast and FP into the lake of fire, puts Satan in chains, and controls Jerusalem. At the end, Satan marches towards Jerusalem and is burned up along the way, and then cast into the lake of fire.

Why do you not point out the direction Satan is going? Because it contradicts recap.

Maybe it is because what you say above is not in the text.
You often make up a narrative to make your doctrine work, and you ignore the text that destroys your narrative. It is the way most man-made doctrines work.
This is just one more example of this fact.


.

 

[BABerean2]

The spiritually dead (you deny the church is already resurrected physically) are being rewarded, in Paradise.

No. It is the text which denies the Church has been physically resurrected prior to this point.
The Capital "C" Church as we use the word today is not found in the entire Book of Revelation.
Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found.


Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

(Eph_5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.)



Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.



.

 

[BABerean2]

It shows the righteous are resurrected first before the unrighteous are resurrected. That disproves what Amil claims regarding all being resurrected at the same time.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,


Within the same "hour", instead of 1,000 years apart...


.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,


Within the same "hour", instead of 1,000 years apart...


.

Their "hour" is 1000+ years long, but the resurrections don't happen throughout that hour. They only happen at the very beginning of the "hour" and then 1000+ years later at the end of the "hour" with none in between. That seems like two hours that are coming when the dead are raised, not one hour that is coming as Jesus said. And they criticize us for not seeing the thousand years as being literal? Hmmm.