Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

[BABerean2]

It seems very clear that those who write "duel covenant" have no idea what the bible really teaches.

Is it not written that Jesus is the ONLY DOORWAY to heaven? The Jews that don't have Jesus are lost, but yet still have unanswered promises made by God. If some here on this thread were God, these Jews would have a ZERO CHANCE of salvation. BUT GOD - that is the difference: God loves the Jews in spite of their ignorance of their own messiah. Coming soon, God is going to totally shatter their power (they trust in their IDF) until they have no hope left, and cry out to God just before they are totally annihilated.

In the end, they will SEE their Messiah - SEE the nail holes in his hands and feet - and will believe. This should remind people of Thomas - he had to SEE to believe, but in the end, he did believe. And in the end, "Jacob" will believe. So in the end, it is the SAME COVENANT with the SAME Messiah.

Anyone who claims modern Jews will be saved outside of the Church, have abandoned what is written in the Bible.

The original source of the modern Two Peoples of God doctrine is found below.
The doctrine is less than 200 years old.
Genesis of Dispensational Theology

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[mkgal1]

Well let me post teh wording of the New covenant again given by inspiration of God and you point out to me which verses of the New Covenant Acts 2 points to:

ISTM - going by this post - you, personally, don't recognize anything related to the New Covenant going on in Acts 2....am I understanding your position?

Then let's look at the book of Hebrews. As you already mentioned....this was written to Jews. Jews that *didn't* reject Christ Jesus. So what is the "better covenant" the author wrote about, if not the fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophetic covenant?

Hebrews 8:6
But now [in 65 AD] Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for He is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises​

 

[Timtofly]

How long was that period of time?

It was not 7 years. It was 3.5 years, so there will be the last 3.5 years, although that future time will get shorter and shorter, because the elect is praying to that end.

 

[mkgal1]

If some here on this thread were God, these Jews would have a ZERO CHANCE of salvation

I feel it's safe for me to say that's not true of any of those you're accusing. What is true is that there's no distinction between how people are brought into His Kingdom. There's only one plan of salvation....and, as we recite in the Nicene Creed, "one Church" (people of God).....one ἐκκλησία (ekklesia).

 

[Timtofly]

Anyone who claims modern Jews will be saved outside of the Church, have abandoned what is written in the Bible.

What is Saved? They will not be part of the church. They will live in the Millennium on earth. While you deny both, the Gospels confirm both. God chooses by God's will. Not by some modern rejection of Scripture.

 

[mkgal1]

I do not ignore "now", I just don't force it to mean something it does not!

Jesus is the mediator of the New covenant!

I don't know of any other definition other than BABerean2's use of "now" (what's being labeled as "forcing it to mean something it does not")....so maybe that begs more explanation. What does "now" mean to you?
***Questions like this seem to come up often in discussions with futurists. "This" becomes "that" is another common futurist definition.

With pleasure:

Once again here is the new Covenant:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

In summation
1. God will write His laws in the heat of the whole house of Israel and Judah.
2. He will be their God and teh houses of Isrsael and Judah will be His people.
3. Jews will no longer have to teach fellow Jews to know the Lord- for all Jews will know Him.
4. If teh sun ceases and the universe measured- then God says He will forget Israel as well.

This isthe new Covenant.

Now the gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:2-4
King James Version

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 10:9
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

This is the gospel which we preach by which men since Pentecost must be saved!

Our gospel is for Jew and Gentile based on the blood Jesus shed for the payment of our sins, but it has nothing to do with the New Covenant as written in the Scriptures as I posted again here.

What God will do with the whole house of Israel and Judah sometime in the future is also based on the blood of the covenant but if you look carefully- it has nothing to do with the gospel going out to teh gentiles.

Once again this was a mystery in the old revealed in the New!

I don't see an actual contrast in any of this post. This statement, "but the gospel has nothing to do with the New Covenant as written in the Scriptures" remains an unsubstantiated opinion.

 

[BABerean2]

What is Saved? They will not be part of the church. They will live in the Millennium on earth. While you deny both, the Gospels confirm both. God chooses by God's will. Not by some modern rejection of Scripture.

You talk about others rejecting scripture, while you make claims and use no scripture to back up your claims.

What is wrong with this picture?

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[mkgal1]

Jesus took the "gospel of the kingdom" to the Jews. He was sent ONLY to the Jews.

What was it that Peter was sharing on Pentecost in Jerusalem in 30 AD (recorded in Acts 2)? Was that "the gospel of the kingdom"? Does it only apply to "Jews"?

 

[Timtofly]

I feel it's safe for me to say that's not true of any of those you're accusing. What is true is that there's no distinction between how people are saved. There's only one plan of salvation....and, as we recite in the Nicene Creed, "one Church" (people of God).....one ἐκκλησία (ekklesia).

The church is made up of those who did choose to be there. The false reformed theory that states God chooses the church has been wrongly applied to the church. Those in the church choose God. Scripture from Abraham to the 6 Trumpets clearly point out that God chooses the sheep. The church is technically not the sheep God chooses. The sheep that make up the church chose God. See the difference?

By faith we choose to accept God's Atonement. The true elect come from Jacob (Israel) and God chooses them even if they are not willing. God changes their mind and makes them willing. They do not come from Abraham because Abraham had many offspring not chosen by God. Even Isaac was a divided offspring. Esau was not chosen, but Jacob was. Even in Joseph we see a divided house.

There is only one church. However after the church is completed, God still chooses 144k Jewish male virgins. God still separated the sheep from the goats. The goats did not choose to be rejected. They never chose God, before the church was completed. The sheep did not choose God, or they would have left this earth with the church. God still reserves the right to elect those He so chooses to a task that He has planned for them.

When modern theology tries to create distinctions that do not exist, that is when they are in error. Scripture has to be rightly divided. Not applied as a one size fits all doctrine, that some human thought appropriate. All we like sheep have gone astray, and we are the cause of our own misunderstandings. All we should do is look to Christ, the author and finisher of our faith. Soon that choice will be taken away.

 

[Timtofly]

You talk about others rejecting scripture, while you make claims and use no scripture to back up your claims.

What is wrong with this picture?

I used the same verses you did. You used Scripture, no?

 

[BABerean2]

It was not 7 years. It was 3.5 years, so there will be the last 3.5 years, although that future time will get shorter and shorter, because the elect is praying to that end.

We seem to be making some progress, if you admit the Gospel was taken to the Jews for 3.5 years.

How long was it before Paul began his mission from Christ to take the Gospel to the Gentiles, in the passage below?


Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.


It was at least three years after his conversion, before Paul began his mission.

3.5 years + at least several months before Paul's conversion + 3 years (Galatians 1:18) =

What number do you get when you add up the numbers above?


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[mkgal1]

Our gospel is for Jew and Gentile based on the blood Jesus shed for the payment of our sins, but it has nothing to do with the New Covenant as written in the Scriptures

The Good News (Gospel) most definitely is the New Covenant. If a gospel isn't good news for ALL then it's not the Gospel Jesus and His disciples spread to all nations.

Hebrews 10:8-10
8In the passage above He says, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor did You delight in them” (although they are offered according to the law). 9Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.​

 

[mkgal1]

God loves the Jews in spite of their ignorance of their own messiah. Coming soon, God is going to totally shatter their power (they trust in their IDF) until they have no hope left, and cry out to God just before they are totally annihilated.

That's your idea of "love"?

 

[mkgal1]

Well let me post teh wording of the New covenant again given by inspiration of God and you point out to me which verses of the New Covenant Acts 2 points to:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Acts 2:5
Now there were dwelling(b) in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.​

Peter said (in part - for the sake of space);

Acts 2:14-17
"Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words. 15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day!d 16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:17‘In the last days, God says,

I will pour out My Spirit on all people.​

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Acts 2
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. 24But God raised Him from the dead, releasing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its clutches.25David says about Him:

‘I sawf the Lord always before me;

because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.26Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;

my body also will dwell in hope,27because You will not abandon my soul to Hades,

nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.28You have made known to me the paths of life;

You will fill me with joy in Your presence.’g​

29Brothers, I can tell you with confidence that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that He would place one of his descendants on his throne.h 31Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay. 32God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.33Exalted, then, to the right hand of God, He has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,

“Sit at My right hand35until I make Your enemies

a footstool for Your feet.” ’i​

​

36Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”

37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”40With many other words he testified, and he urged them, “Be saved from this corrupt generation.” 41Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day.​

 

[nolidad]

The verse below says only a "remnant" of Israel will be saved, instead of "all" as you are implying.
Do you think Paul was wrong when he quoted the Old Testament scripture below?

Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.



Who was Peter talking to on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant? The Gentiles were not grafted into the Church until several years later.

Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

Well in all ages, there has always been a remnant. Right before Jesus returns the 1/3 that survived Daniels 70th week are that remnant and comprise the whole house of Israel and Judah.

Who was Peter talking to? Only a very very small portion of the nation of Israel. He was not saying He was addressing the entire nation, but simply declaring that the whole nation needs to know! Basic grammar keeps one from confusion here and simple logistics. Peter was not addressing the whole house of Israel but was making a statement that the whole house of Israel needed to know! That is why Jews witnessed to jews, they were busy trying to insure the whole house of Israel knew!

 

[nolidad]

You seem to be having trouble with the English language since you are attempting to define the word "remnant", as "all", and also as "the third part". Both cannot be correct.

Not in the least. The problem lies is that you forget God made a promise He intends to keep with teh whole house of Israel and Judah, called the New covenant!

The covenant says GOD WILL save the entire nation of Israel.

Again this is the New Covenant:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

When will He fulfill the New Covenant to the whole house of Israel and Judah? After those days! AKA at the end of the 70th week of Daniel when Jesus is about to return!

Now you have to decide if this is in fact the New Covenant Jesus paid for with His blood or not!

If it is, all your allegorical flights of fantasy are irrelavent.

Can I explain it all 100% ? No! But I know God says this is what He will do for all of Israel and I believe it! As written and not retranslated.

 

[nolidad]

God only forgives the sins of every Jew who accepts His Son.
There is no Plan B outside of the Church found in Romans 11, or anywhere else in the Bible.

I have repeatedly agreed with you here ! what is your point in bringing this up again?

 

[nolidad]

You must ignore Paul's warning about genealogies in Titus 3:9 in order to make your form of Dual Covenant Theology work.

Anyone who claims the New Covenant has not yet been fulfilled, has thrown their Bible in the trash can in an attempt to make their man-made doctrine work.

Well as I do not hold to a dual covenant theology- this statement of yours again is still worthless.

REally? I just checked my trash can and my bibles aren't there!

But instead of bearing false witness against a brother by your repeated false accusations and implications . For a change answer this that I have asked you multiple times:

If you believe that the whole of the new Covenant is already all fulfilled then simply answer this questions to prove me wrong:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

When is after those days?
When did God write His laws in all of Israelis?
when did God make all of Israel His people according to this new Covenant?
When did all of Israel get to know the Lord as is promised in the new covenant?

Answer me these instead of your prepubescent and not so subtle insults.

 

[nolidad]

How long was that period of time?

.

Only until the event of Matthew 12 when the nation of Israel through its leaders committed the unpardonable sin!

REad all four gospels and you will see that after this event. Jesus no more sent out the disciples to declare the kingdom is at hand, nor did He announce the kingdom was at hand, nor did Jesus do miracles anymore openly and without the precondition of faith in Him!

He hid the kingdom from Israel and taught th emystery form to the disciples to prepare them to launch the church at Pentecost!

 

[nolidad]

ISTM - going by this post - you, personally, don't recognize anything related to the New Covenant going on in Acts 2....am I understanding your position?

Then let's look at the book of Hebrews. As you already mentioned....this was written to Jews. Jews that *didn't* reject Christ Jesus. So what is the "better covenant" the author wrote about, if not the fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophetic covenant?

Hebrews 8:6
But now [in 65 AD] Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for He is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises​

No you are not understanding my position.

As for the Hebrews passage, it is a few years later after Titus started teh siege of Jerusalem and then left to see His father Vespasian crowned as Cesar!

Many of the se Jews who hadn't rejected Jesus yet, hadn't accepted Him either. And yes Jesus is mediating a better covenant!

You believe it is fulfilled so show in history when this statement from God was fulfilled:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

when is the "after those days"?
When did all of Israel and Judah have Gods laws written in their heart and all become His people according to the new covenant?

When did Israel no longer have to tell other Jews to know the Lord for all of them know Him?

Answer that and you win!

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.