IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER
If there's one thing threads like these show beyond the shadow of any doubt, it's that A/Pre millennialists either ignore passages which collide with their A/Pre-mill theology, or interpret them in the "light" of their A/Pre-mil theology, and as a result, A/Premils all wind up with back-to-front and upside-down interpretations of many passages of scripture.
The OP in this thread and many other posts made by Pre-mils have shown very clearly that Amil has some serious scriptural problems that refutes Amil. The A-mils who posted in this thread have shown that Pre-mil has some serious scriptural problems that refutes Pre-mil.
So let's recap on a few facts and questions before we talk about "time":-
Revelation 2:26-29
And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations.
And he will rule (Greek ποιμαίνω poimaínō shepherd) them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father.
And I will give him the Morning Star.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
In the Lord's words above, there is
a conditional promise made. Those who overcome and keep the Lord's works
to the end, the same will be given power over the nations.
The question is, "to the end" of what? If it is to the end of the life of the people to whom the promise is made, then the promise that they will rule over the nations is something which is to come after the end of their lives,
but if it's to the end of a period of tribulation, then the question arises, Has there ever been a time when all saints received power of the nations, and ruled (shepherded them) with a rod of iron?
Jesus said to those who followed Him while He was on the earth:
"Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging (Greek κρίνω krínō) the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matthew 24:28)
Does this mean that they will sit with Him at the time of the Great White Throne? Or would this mean ruling over, as the judges of Israel did which we read about in the book of Judges? The Greek word for judging in Matthew 24:28 is: G2919 κρίνω KRI/NW krínō kree'-no properly, to distinguish, i.e. decide (mentally or judicially); by implication, to try, condemn, punish:--avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.
The next question is, in light of these promises,
is Matthew 25:31-42 the same as the Great White Throne, as those who do not believe in a literal thousand years claim?
If so, how can this be, since
Paul tells us that at the time of the end,
Christ will cause all rule and authority and power to cease, and hand the Kingdom back to God the Father (I Corinthians 15:21-28):
"But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept.
For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;
then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.
for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.
The last enemy made to cease is death.
For He put all things under His feet. But when He says that all things have been put under His feet, it is plain that it excepts Him who has put all things under Him.
But when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subject to Him who has subjected things to Him, so that God may be all things in all."
Quite clearly then:
1. According to the promises of Jesus, there is a time coming when the saints will be ruling as judges over the nations, and over the twelve tribes of Israel.
2.
This will only be given to those who have overcome and who have kept the words of Christ to the end.
3. This is
before the Great White Throne, for at the time of the Great White Throne,
Christ will cause all rule and authority and power to cease, and Jesus promises to those who overcome and keep His words to the end, that
"to him I will give power over the nations. And he will rule (Greek ποιμαίνω poimaínō shepherd)
them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father."
5. The Greek word which translates into English as "a thousand years" in Revelation 20 is
χιλιάς (chiliás), and it denotes a one-thousand year period, and
cannot be interpreted as symbolically meaning thousands of years which parallel the age in-between Pentecost and the appearance of Christ in His glory,
without defying all the rules of grammar.
6. In Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus is seated on the throne of His glory,
and all nations have been gathered before Him, to be judged.
In this passage, the Lord is judging them
according to how they treated those whom He calls His brothers, saying that as they did to them, they did to Him.
NOTICE:-
(A) They are being judged
by their works, just as at the time of the Great White throne following the close of the millennium in Revelation 20 - but this is happening at the appearance of Christ at the end of this age.
(B) In the Revelation, after death and hades have delivered up all the dead still in them,
these too, are judged by their works, and those whose names are still not found in the Lamb's Book of Life at that point, are thrown into the Lake of Fire, just as Mat 25:46 states will happen to those nations on the left.
(C)
The saints are not judged by their works.
(D) In Mat 25:31-46 those who treated the saints well, are called
"righteous" and
"blessed of my Father" by the Lord (Mat 25:34, 37).
(E) The same people as in (D)
"inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world." (Mat 25:33).
(F) There is no reason to assume that the events of Mat.25:31-46 will take place at the end of this age when Christ appears in the clouds and gathers His elect, but there is also no reason to assume that these events will not happen at that time.
"First Resurrection".
The Greek word egeírō (ἐγείρω) is one of the the verbs found in the New Testament, very often used in reference to the bodily rising again from death.
When syn appears prefixed to egeírō (synegeírō), it shows that the resurrection of the individual believer in Christ is something which occurs
with Christ's resurrection. It's the same prefix we get with words like synthesis and synchronize.
Colossians 3:1
"If ye then be risen with [συνεγείρω synegeírō] Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."
Compare this with Romans 6:5:
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"
There is only one resurrection - and Christ is the resurrection and the Life:
John 11:23-26
"Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again.
Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
Christ is the resurrection and the Life. Any resurrection to take place after Christ's, takes place because of Christ's resurrection
and with (synegeírō) His resurrection. There is no "second" resurrection (or third, or fourth). Those who rise from the dead when Christ appears
are those who are Christ's at His coming, according to Paul in I Corinthians 15:22-26:
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;
then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.
for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.
The last enemy made to cease is death."
THE OVERLAP
Therefore not only in Matthew 25:31-46, but in many New Testament verses speaking about judgment unto life or death, there is an overlap - with BOTH a literal thousand-year reign of the saints in the Kingdom of Christ following the judgment, AND the New Heavens and New Earth following the judgment.
I realize that A-mills will find this hard to accept, because their minds are stuck in a two-dimensional, linear approach to "time", but it CAN be both.
One one hand, there is a reign of Christ coming, and the resurrected saints with Him, when Satan is bound (truly bound) and shut up in the abyss (truly shut up in it), unable to deceive the nations until the thousand years are finished, because he will be totally incapacitated during the thousand years.
There will be one final rebellion when Satan has been released again, and goes out deceiving the nations again, gathering the nations in the four corners of the earth - Gog and Magog - against the camp of the saints, and this rebellion is brought to an end when fire comes down from heaven and devours them (unlike when the beast and false prophet were thrown into the lake of fire a thousand years earlier).
Yet the Kingdom of Christ exists now in the world, has existed for 2,000 years and will exist forever. He is the One who is, who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
The universe has always been the Kingdom which belongs to God, and if the King allows an adversary to cause havoc in His Kingdom, then it's because:
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor your ways My ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
For as the rain comes down, and the snow from the heavens, and does not return there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring out and bud, and give seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
so shall My word be, which goes out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall certainly do what I sent it to do." Isaiah 55:8-11
If the King of a Kingdom wants to prevent His adversary from creating havoc in His Kingdom, He would need to either bind His adversary and lock him in a dungeon, OR destroy him.
If a murderer who has been in prison for 20 years claims he is rehabilitated and pleads for his release, promising to go and serve humanity afterward, and is released on probation to see what he will do, but then goes out and murders someone again, would the state be just if it gives the man the death penalty the second time around?
Would our King need to bind His adversary and lock Him in a dungeon if the King wanted to rule over His Kingdom unhindered by an adversary? And if our King released His adversary again on probation after a thousand years to see what he will do, and then destroys His adversary in the lake of fire after His adversary goes out committing the exact same acts of sinful rebellion against God again, would our King be just?
The Kingdom of Christ has already come. The Kingdom of Christ is coming. The Kingdom of Christ
just IS: Christ is He who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. The NHNE is linked to "no time" (a.k.a "eternity").
Eternity is not "coming in the future". Eternity IS, WAS and it IS TO COME. If "No-time" (a.k.a "eternity") is the air, then "time" is one aspect of the contents of the gas balloon floating around in the air. Time is linked to the activities, events, cycles of birth, life and death in the creation, in the universe.
Hence the removal of the curse was accomplished and completed by Christ Himself in His death and resurrection. It's not something that "will only be in the future when the NHNE comes". And certain things overlap, as can be seen from what happened twice before on the exact same day of the year, and as can be seen by what has been said regarding John the Baptist and Elijah:
