A Christian with corona virus

[bekkilyn]

Even if they did ask, which would be an addition to scripture we are told not to make, the fact is, the Scripture stated that they did not believe. Can we agree that, even today, If we ask God for something while not believing that it will happen....It will not happen?

And for the Guy in Mark......He was healed totally the first time...and partially blinded again the second. For we are Trees aiming to be, again, like a tree planted by the rivers of water......and if any tree bear forth bad fruit, it shall be hewn down.....



I dont like to try and shed light on truth, through, ifs and "I have no doubts." We are talking about people asking Jesus to heal them of physical sickness, and He telling them "No."



So It is dangerous to Ask our Father for something and expect to be given it? If I ask for healing and expect perfect healing, Im treating God as a vending machine?

What if I shared with you a method in which you could pray and receive exactly what you ask for......even if it isnt good for you. Would you be interested, Or would you rather continue to pray and not know if you would be answered with a yes or no, or be ignored or not heard?

Have you been reading The Secret?

What you have been describing is a form of Law of Attraction. God is an impersonal, metaphysical "universe" and everything is "cause and effect." If your thoughts are positive, the "universe" sends back positive things into your life. If you send out a desire for money to the "universe" and you sincerely believe you will get it, the natural effect or consequence is for the "universe" to provide that money so you can expect to look in your mailbox later that week and find a check for some amount. Norman Vincent Peale. Power of Positive Thinking, etc.

It's not exactly new.

But God isn't some mindless "universe" who must correspond to some sort of natural cause-and-effect law that like must attract like.

 

[Francis Drake]

Yes, Jesus did not heal those who did not believe he could heal them...And the same is true today. However, He did Heal everyone who asked, believing that He could heal them.....I also find this to be true today. Do you disagree?

Of course I do.
Why do you keep chasing me for posting an straight forward scripture.

 

[RaymondG]

I'm talking about people who believe that physical healing is guaranteed and that if we don't see immediate results we need to claim our healing and ignore the symptoms.

Ohhhh I think I get it....You are referring to those who believe the following verse:
"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them."

This verse implies that you should believe you have what you ask for when you ask for it....and you SHALL, not might, have them.

It seems to me that it is scripture that you are against, not the doctrine of men. If not, you tell us the correct way to interpret this verse.

They also seem to believe a Christian is entitled to riches and an easy life; but that's another thread.

Oh, you mean they believe these two verses:

"The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein."
"Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full."

But maybe this is a topic for another thread.

I don't find any Scriptures to be false.
Human interpretation of them is another matter.

Please tell us how to correctly interpret the scripture mentioned above and well as this one.:

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."

The thing is, is isn't "unto me as I believe."
I told you - I apparently did not have faith for healing, yet the Lord healed me anyway.
I still do not believe the doctrine that we have to rebuke our symptoms and confess our healing, otherwise we can't be healed.

The thing is, it was unto you as you believed. I told you, it matters not what another thinks and believes....only what you think and believe....and this situation proves it.

What do you think about this doctrine?:
"let the weak say, I am strong."

If you were there when the prophet spoke these words, would you of said "I dont believe in rebuking my weakness and confessing my strength?"

Or do you have a more correct interpretation for this as well?

And I don't believe that anyone desires sickness or disability.

Yes, no one really desires to be in sin.....But how can they be saved lest there is one sent to him with the words of life?

Likewise, no one desires to be sick...but how can they be healed lest there be sent one with the words of healing? Moreover, what is our state when the ones who are suppose to have the words of healing, are declaring: healing isnt guaranteed...God does not heal all.....you make God a vending machine is you expect healing..... What happens is we build a larger nazareth, full of people unable to be healed because of unbelief.

For what you preach is much easier to believe and follow than my words are......

 

[Junia]

W.O.F folk used to say that to me when I had M.E and debated healing with them.
I told them that I had faith, but not in their doctrine.
I was told "well you won't be healed then; you don't believe.

Thankfully the Lord didn't listen to them and healed me anyway.

I came down with M E in my early teens after a virus...apparently due to sin in my life or aomething. I grew up in a family that believ e if you talk about sickness or receive a doctor's diagnosis you curse yourself with sickness...a

God did heal me age 21. I was free!!! I just thank God for His healing. I have no idea whether it was sin or unbelief that caused my ME. But I don't think about it anymore. I was healed. Doctors didn't expect that but they did Tell me some people just recover with time...

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

What if I shared with you a method in which you could pray and receive exactly what you ask for......even if it isnt good for you. Would you be interested, Or would you rather continue to pray and not know if you would be answered with a yes or no, or be ignored or not heard?

I'd be interested in you sharing it, but I'm not sure that I would follow it. Prayer is about a relationship. I can ask for things that I know are in God's will and expect that they will happen, but praying for healing is not guaranteed and not only does scripture show that Christians weren't always healed, so does history. If praying in Jesus' name for healing guaranteed healing there would be a lot more people healed than we can see.

 

[RaymondG]

Have you been reading The Secret?

What secret are you referring to? Did you send me a PM? Why not leave it all here so that others can benefit? Did you know that all that is done in secret will be brought to the light?

What you have been describing is a form of Law of Attraction. God is an impersonal, metaphysical "universe" and everything is "cause and effect." If your thoughts are positive, the "universe" sends back positive things into your life. If you send out a desire for money to the "universe" and you sincerely believe you will get it, the natural effect or consequence is for the "universe" to provide that money so you can expect to look in your mailbox later that week and find a check for some amount. Norman Vincent Peale. Power of Positive Thinking, etc.

Are you not able to stay on Christian topics using the words from the bible? You cannot take an idea from the bible and say "The devil used it, therefore it is no longer Christian!"

Let God's word be true and every man a liar.

I mentioned only scripture, and you respond with words from other books and people and doctrines. If you prefer to talk about these people and books, you have to converse with those with knowledge of the same. When you are ready to talk scripture and ideas therein, you can circle back here.

It's not exactly new.

There is nothing new under the sun.

But God isn't some mindless "universe" who must correspond to some sort of natural cause-and-effect law that like must attract like.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[RaymondG]

Of course I do.
Why do you keep chasing me for posting an straight forward scripture.

I will chase you henceforth, no further. Go in peace.

 

[Archivist]

My Father told me to ask him for anything I want and he will give it to me. And now you make it seem like I would dishonor Him in some way, if I do exactly what he told me to do.

It is unwise to go to anothers child and tell them not to listen to their parent, or to imply that they dishonor their parent if they list to them.

"Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full."

"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

"If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you."

I guess we all have a choice to make, Believe man, Or believe God.

How many on board RMS Titanic were praying for rescue? Another liner was nearby and could have rescued most or all aboard, but it didn't. If you were not a woman primarily among the first and second class passengers, the odds were you went down with the ship. Were the wealthy the only ones praying? I don't think so.

 

[Junia]

Corona is killing so many people, of course some of them are.going to be born again believers. It would be statistically impossible otherwise!

So why do they get it? I don't know. God can heal and I wonder why we don't see more healings happening in church gatherings but I would be foolish to lean on my own understanding as to why

 

[Strong in Him]

Ohhhh I think I get it....You are referring to those who believe the following verse:
"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them."

No, read my post.
I'm referring to those who say, "you HAVE been healed; if your symptoms remain, it means that you need to declare your healing until they disappear".
I'm referring to those who say that physical healing is guaranteed and if you don't receive it, you don't have enough faith.
I'm not surprised you can't produce Scripture for those teachings; there isn't any.

This verse implies that you should believe you have what you ask for when you ask for it....and you SHALL, not might, have them.

And other verses say that we must pray in Jesus' name.
Praying in his name means praying according to his will and with his authority - not praying for any thing that suits us or that WE desire, and then tacking "in Jesus' name" onto the end of it.

It seems to me that it is scripture that you are against, not the doctrine of men. If not, you tell us the correct way to interpret this verse.

I'm not against Scripture at all. I believe in the whole teaching of Scripture, not odd verses taken out of context that doctrines are built on.
And Scripture clearly tells us to seek first the Kingdom of God, Matthew 6:33, that we cannot serve God and money, Matthew 6:24, that we should pray "thy will be done" in the Lord's Prayer, Matthew 6:10, that we should remain in Jesus, the true Vine, he will remain in us and then we will bear fruit which glorifies him, John 15:4-5. Bear fruit - not own many possessions.

Oh, you mean they believe these two verses:

"The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein."
"Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full."

Like I said, verses taken out of context are not good.

Would you say "ohhh, the following verses are in Scripture; 'then Judas went and hanged himself', 'go and do likewise', and 'what you do, do quickly' - so Scripture is telling me to commit suicide? Of course not.

The thing is, it was unto you as you believed. I told you, it matters not what another thinks and believes....only what you think and believe....and this situation proves it.

No; I believed that the Lord was absolutely able to heal me - but that if he did not, then he had some reason for that, would be with me IN it and would still be glorified.
I was told that the Lord would only really be glorified by my physical healing - which I was preventing because I did not have faith.

I still believe now as I did then - and the Lord healed me anyway.
No, "rebuking of symptoms" or "declaring my healing"; he just healed.

What do you think about this doctrine?:
"let the weak say, I am strong."

Scripture teaches that when we are weak then the Lord is strong, 2 Corinthians 12:10. If we do everything in our own strength, then the power of God won't be seen, and we;'ll get the praise, not him.
Scripture says that the Lord chose the things that the world considers to be weak to show his strength - an unarmed shepherd boy killed a giant, a fearful man killed an army with only 300 men (Gideon), elderly and barren women had babies, uneducated fishermen followed Jesus, turned the word upside down and wrote the Gospels, an itinerant preacher, the son of a carpenter, saved and reconciled mankind to God and has been given the name that is above every name.

Likewise, no one desires to be sick...but how can they be healed lest there be sent one with the words of healing?

Jesus healed people without even being physically present.
God can heal anyone.

Moreover, what is our state when the ones who are suppose to have the words of healing, are declaring: healing isnt guaranteed...God does not heal all.....you make God a vending machine is you expect healing.....

Quite the opposite; it is those who say "believe this doctrine, say these words, put in enough coins of faith/say enough prayers, and God will deliver healing."
If physical healing was guaranteed to all Christians, no believer would ever be ill. Yet we see from the NT that that was not the case - Paul was ill, so were Timothy, Trophimus, 2 Timothy 4:20 and Epaphroditus, Philippians 2:27. Thousands of Christians have died from illness - yet remained faithful and glorified God IN it.

What happens is we build a larger nazareth, full of people unable to be healed because of unbelief.

In the NT Jesus healed some people without asking if they even had faith, never mind how much.
I repeat, I had faith in the God who heals - I had no faith in the doctrine "you HAVE been healed, if your symptoms remain, rebuke them and confess your healing".

It is because I would not accept that doctrine that I was told I had no faith.
In spite of not believing that doctrine, the lord healed me.

 

[Strong in Him]

I came down with M E in my early teens after a virus...apparently due to sin in my life or aomething. I grew up in a family that believ e if you talk about sickness or receive a doctor's diagnosis you curse yourself with sickness...a

God did heal me age 21. I was free!!! I just thank God for His healing. I have no idea whether it was sin or unbelief that caused my ME. But I don't think about it anymore. I was healed. Doctors didn't expect that but they did Tell me some people just recover with time...

It wasn't due to a sin in your life, though I don't doubt that you were taught that.
If the Lord punished sin with illness, all would be ill and Jesus' death would have been in vain.

Praise God for your healing.

 

[Taodeching]

The devil is not a superstition, and he is behind everything that is bad.

All I wrote and your response is absolutely nothing that I said. I never said Satan was a superstition at all. Your acting superstitious by trying to shame people. A virus isn't bad or good, it is what it is and you trying to attribute shame to people doesn't help those that have this virus.

Satan is not behind everything bad sometimes things happen like someone might hit their finger with a hammer, for them that is bad but Satan wasn't behind that. There are a million things that happen and to people they can be bad but that doesn't mean that Satan is behind every little thing it is that idea that is superstitious and giving Satan power he doesn't have. In many ways your giving Satan more power than God.

 

[bekkilyn]

What secret are you referring to? Did you send me a PM? Why not leave it all here so that others can benefit? Did you know that all that is done in secret will be brought to the light?

Then read it for yourself if you're interested. If you don't like to read, they've even made a movie that's currently on Netflix I believe.

The Secret (book)

Are you not able to stay on Christian topics using the words from the bible? You cannot take an idea from the bible and say "The devil used it, therefore it is no longer Christian!"

Let God's word be true and every man a liar.

I mentioned only scripture, and you respond with words from other books and people and doctrines. If you prefer to talk about these people and books, you have to converse with those with knowledge of the same. When you are ready to talk scripture and ideas therein, you can circle back here.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Thanks for sharing.

It's because what you are talking about comes right out of those books. Law of Attraction and Positive Thinking dressed up in a couple of cherry-picked scripture verses to make it all seem like sound Christian doctrine when really all it is is vending machine faith.

Do you believe that God is never allowed to say "no"? That he must out of some heavenly obligation or natural law indulge our every sincere whim no matter how harmful or destructive it might be?

 

[Archivist]

No, read my post.
I'm referring to those who say, "you HAVE been healed; if your symptoms remain, it means that you need to declare your healing until they disappear".
I'm referring to those who say that physical healing is guaranteed and if you don't receive it, you don't have enough faith.
I'm not surprised you can't produce Scripture for those teachings; there isn't any.



And other verses say that we must pray in Jesus' name.
Praying in his name means praying according to his will and with his authority - not praying for any thing that suits us or that WE desire, and then tacking "in Jesus' name" onto the end of it.



I'm not against Scripture at all. I believe in the whole teaching of Scripture, not odd verses taken out of context that doctrines are built on.
And Scripture clearly tells us to seek first the Kingdom of God, Matthew 6:33, that we cannot serve God and money, Matthew 6:24, that we should pray "thy will be done" in the Lord's Prayer, Matthew 6:10, that we should remain in Jesus, the true Vine, he will remain in us and then we will bear fruit which glorifies him, John 15:4-5. Bear fruit - not own many possessions.



Like I said, verses taken out of context are not good.

Would you say "ohhh, the following verses are in Scripture; 'then Judas went and hanged himself', 'go and do likewise', and 'what you do, do quickly' - so Scripture is telling me to commit suicide? Of course not.



No; I believed that the Lord was absolutely able to heal me - but that if he did not, then he had some reason for that, would be with me IN it and would still be glorified.
I was told that the Lord would only really be glorified by my physical healing - which I was preventing because I did not have faith.

I still believe now as I did then - and the Lord healed me anyway.
No, "rebuking of symptoms" or "declaring my healing"; he just healed.



Scripture teaches that when we are weak then the Lord is strong, 2 Corinthians 12:10. If we do everything in our own strength, then the power of God won't be seen, and we;'ll get the praise, not him.
Scripture says that the Lord chose the things that the world considers to be weak to show his strength - an unarmed shepherd boy killed a giant, a fearful man killed an army with only 300 men (Gideon), elderly and barren women had babies, uneducated fishermen followed Jesus, turned the word upside down and wrote the Gospels, an itinerant preacher, the son of a carpenter, saved and reconciled mankind to God and has been given the name that is above every name.



Jesus healed people without even being physically present.
God can heal anyone.



Quite the opposite; it is those who say "believe this doctrine, say these words, put in enough coins of faith/say enough prayers, and God will deliver healing."
If physical healing was guaranteed to all Christians, no believer would ever be ill. Yet we see from the NT that that was not the case - Paul was ill, so were Timothy, Trophimus, 2 Timothy 4:20 and Epaphroditus, Philippians 2:27. Thousands of Christians have died from illness - yet remained faithful and glorified God IN it.



In the NT Jesus healed some people without asking if they even had faith, never mind how much.
I repeat, I had faith in the God who heals - I had no faith in the doctrine "you HAVE been healed, if your symptoms remain, rebuke them and confess your healing".

It is because I would not accept that doctrine that I was told I had no faith.
In spite of not believing that doctrine, the lord healed me.

Yes, God can heal anyone. But He often answers prayers with later or no.

 

[Junia]

Then read it for yourself if you're interested. If you don't like to read, they've even made a movie that's currently on Netflix I believe.

The Secret (book)




It's because what you are talking about comes right out of those books. Law of Attraction and Positive Thinking dressed up in a couple of cherry-picked scripture verses to make it all seem like sound Christian doctrine when really all it is is vending machine faith.

Do you believe that God is never allowed to say "no"? That he must out of some heavenly obligation or natural law indulge our every sincere whim no matter how harmful or destructive it might be?

I agree. I don't believe in healing as being because of our trying hard enough. God is the healer not us. All we are asked to do is have faith and obey Jesus. That might mean we ask a church elder to anoint us with oil and pray for us it could mean seeing a health professionL. God can and will direct us either way

 

[Taodeching]

How do we know Jesus was never ill?

He was subject to the same physical, bodily functions as we all are. If He fell as a child, I don't think He levitated Himself to avoid scraping His knees. He grew, He aged, He ate, He drank. He had a human body that was capable of injury and death. Why are people assuming he never caught a cold, either?

Exactly. The NT is not a microcosm of the life of Christ rather the things included are to know that Christ is God so we may believe

 

[Junia]

It wasn't due to a sin in your life, though I don't doubt that you were taught that.
If the Lord punished sin with illness, all would be ill and Jesus' death would have been in vain.

Praise God for your healing.

Thanks. Yes I was made to believe I didn't have enough faith or that it must have been something bad I did? I think many evangelical churches taught that back in the 80s and 90s,.sadly

 

[CaspianSails]

I feel god didn't take care of them in that specific aspect. Why a Christian could get coronavirus? I wonder why. I would feel bad or sad.

I think you are correct if you have a little god. Are you saying being sick is a reflection on either the power of your God or the life of the person sick?

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes, God can heal anyone. But He often answers prayers with later or no.

 

[lambofgod43985889]

How do we know Jesus was never ill?

He was subject to the same physical, bodily functions as we all are. If He fell as a child, I don't think He levitated Himself to avoid scraping His knees. He grew, He aged, He ate, He drank. He had a human body that was capable of injury and death. Why are people assuming he never caught a cold, either?

he used to heal people, if he got ill for a moment he could cure himself... in brief, I believe he was never ill