The church must be catholic!

[visionary]

What is the difference, would anyone here say, between Messianic Judaism and Seventh-day Adventism?

The feasts, the end time theology, the love for Hebrew, the interest in Jewish understanding, etc.

 

[mmksparbud]

Ceremonial laws used as shadows are commandments . But carnal ordinances could never make perfect or complete a person conscience if it could make perfect once like moral laws would be enough. .

Hebrews 9:9-10 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

The gospel understanding hid in parables (figures) as cerinimoinal laws it must be sought out. Parables teach us how to walk by faith. . . the unseen eternal .

Shadows point forward=---shadow of things to come. The Sabbath is not a Shadow of Things to come=---it points back to creation week and to God as the creator of everything. It has not changed, it is still the 7th day and, as has been posted, it will be kept on the new earth---it is from God, eternal and everlasting as are all his commandments.

 

[visionary]

Shadows point forward=---shadow of things to come. The Sabbath is not a Shadow of Things to come=---it points back to creation week and to God as the creator of everything. It has not changed, it is still the 7th day and, as has been posted, it will be kept on the new earth---it is from God, eternal and everlasting as are all his commandments.

Col2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Sabbath day, Sabbath week, Sabbath month, Sabbath week of weeks, Sabbath year, Sabbath week of years, Sabbath millennium [thousand years].... yep Sabbath days do have a shadow of things to come...

 

[mmksparbud]

Col2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of Lev_23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
Sabbath day, Sabbath week, Sabbath month, Sabbath week of weeks, Sabbath year, Sabbath week of years, Sabbath millennium [thousand years].... yep Sabbath days do have a shadow of things to come...

Do you not understand that all the Jewish festivals are called sabbaths? They all cease to work on those days. If you read the scriptures you would know that.

Lev 16:29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

Lev_23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

Lev_23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

There is also a land sabbath--6 years they sowed, the 7th year they did no sowing.

the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come;

If you notice---it says sabbath days---it does not say THE SABBATH DAY. Your passage is not sopeaking of THE SABBATH DAY but of these Jewish sabbath days.

 

[garee]

Shadows point forward=---shadow of things to come. The Sabbath is not a Shadow of Things to come=---it points back to creation week and to God as the creator of everything. It has not changed, it is still the 7th day and, as has been posted, it will be kept on the new earth---it is from God, eternal and everlasting as are all his commandments.

Shadows point to the eternal. The promised new incorruptible bodies that no one has received shadows are the partial rest being yoked with Christ living in these bodies of death the temporal seen. That rest makes our burden lighter. It is called today a refence as under the Sun. It effectively works in us when we do mix faith the unseen eternal things of God with the temporal things of this corrupted dying creation.

Note.... born again believers ... (GREEN)
Note...Unconverted mankind (BLACK)
Note... the power to soften the heart ,the gospel (RED)


Hebrews 4:1-7King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Whenever we hear his voice having mixed faith we have entered the gospel rest . In the new heavens and earth the written letter of the law death will not rise up again and condemn through corruption and entire creation . Death as to the letter of the law of itself will die in the judgement fire on the last day . The death of death.

If no mixing faith the unseen eternal then no gospel .No gospel a persons heart remains hard . It the gospel that does the work of making it soft making our daily burden lighter.

 

[visionary]

 

[mmksparbud]

Shadows point to the eternal. The promised new incorruptible bodies that no one has received shadows are the partial rest being yoked with Christ living in these bodies of death the temporal seen. That rest makes our burden lighter. It is called today a refence as under the Sun. It effectively works in us when we do mix faith the unseen eternal things of God with the temporal things of this corrupted dying creation.

Note.... born again believers ... (GREEN)
Note...Unconverted mankind (BLACK)
Note... the power to soften the heart ,the gospel (RED)


Hebrews 4:1-7King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Whenever we hear his voice having mixed faith we have entered the gospel rest . In the new heavens and earth the written letter of the law death will not rise up again and condemn through corruption and entire creation . Death as to the letter of the law of itself will die in the judgement fire on the last day . The death of death.

If no mixing faith the unseen eternal then no gospel .No gospel a persons heart remains hard . It the gospel that does the work of making it soft making our daily burden lighter.

It clearly says "shadow of things to come." Again, you can give that word all the poetic license you want---the Sabbath is not a shadow of things to come. It points BACK to creation and to the creator God. Period. He created it as a testament to His creative powers. It is not for the Jews only, it is not pointing forward, for the Sabbath was from the beginning, is now still the 4th commandment, and will be kept on the new earth. It does not get chopped up and put wherever anyone wants. It is THE DAY THAT GOD CREATED AT THE END OF CREATION WEEK.

 

[garee]

It clearly says "shadow of things to come." Again, you can give that word all the poetic license you want---the Sabbath is not a shadow of things to come. It points BACK to creation and to the creator God. Period. He created it as a testament to His creative powers. It is not for the Jews only, it is not pointing forward, for the Sabbath was from the beginning, is now still the 4th commandment, and will be kept on the new earth. It does not get chopped up and put wherever anyone wants. It is THE DAY THAT GOD CREATED AT THE END OF CREATION WEEK.

Thanks for the reply.

What's a poetic license? The language of parables? .

Shadows can point both ways depending on the light. God can make them go backward.

I would offer. The Genesis represents the work of creating all things to include the temporal things seen, and the hidden new heavens and earth as two creations or genesis' (beginnings) and God has rested from creating.

He has not rested from redeeming that which was lost after the creation

He is the lamb slain from before the foundation. Which was outwardly demonstrated in the garden of Gethsemane and another outward demonstration at the cross. Two demonstrations working as one. Both demonstrating the work finished from before the foundation of the world .

In that way the promised demonstration is not the actual work which was performed. . again before the foundation of the world.

Which was when mankind chose to do the will of a creature seen the serpent the god of this world who created doubt (you shall surely not die. In effect. . . Look a me and live. as in who believes in a God not seen. And therefore mankind did not believe the Spirit of Christ that worked from within. That rest was cut off as the glory of God departed.

The lamb of God slain for the sins of the world had been made to no effect .

Unredeemed mankind shown with Cain who had no faith (none not little ) No God in his heart as fool he became a restless wanderer. The increased load not having any rest with God became a burden he could not bear. A burden that the lamb of God alone could bear. Cain suffered the pangs of hell with no rest.

Genesis 4 13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

Unlike Abel in whom God had favor on coming from the mercy of God .

Abel is the first recorded apostle martyr. He had faith in the unseen God . He was given the temporal rest that comes from mixing faith in what he saw and heard, the shadow we are under.

That rest of faith made his burden lightener it did not remove the sufferings associated with a body of death. as it will be completely removed in the new heaven and earth. This is when the Sun and moon as temporal corruption time keepers it is winding down to the last day .

But again the temporal as a shadow remains as long as today is today (24 -7) or under the Sun .

If there is no mixing of faith as we are informed in Hebrews 4 then our burden of sufferings will not be shared . The gospel will be shown as having no effect.

The glorious rest ( no suffering)departed in Genesis and will return fully when we receive the promise. Then the shadow will disappear.

Revelation 21:22- 25 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

As long as today is today under the Sun the shadow gives us the rest we can walk in. It will not be fully with us as long as we live in these earthen bodies.

John 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

 

[mmksparbud]

Thanks for the reply.

What's a poetic license? The language of parables? .

Shadows can point both ways depending on the light. God can make them go backward.

I would offer. The Genesis represents the work of creating all things to include the temporal things seen, and the hidden new heavens and earth as two creations or genesis' (beginnings) and God has rested from creating.

He has not rested from redeeming that which was lost after the creation

He is the lamb slain from before the foundation. Which was outwardly demonstrated in the garden of Gethsemane and another outward demonstration at the cross. Two demonstrations working as one. Both demonstrating the work finished from before the foundation of the world .

In that way the promised demonstration is not the actual work which was performed. . again before the foundation of the world.

Which was when mankind chose to do the will of a creature seen the serpent the god of this world who created doubt (you shall surely not die. In effect. . . Look a me and live. as in who believes in a God not seen. And therefore mankind did not believe the Spirit of Christ that worked from within. That rest was cut off as the glory of God departed.

The lamb of God slain for the sins of the world had been made to no effect .

Unredeemed mankind shown with Cain who had no faith (none not little ) No God in his heart as fool he became a restless wanderer. The increased load not having any rest with God became a burden he could not bear. A burden that the lamb of God alone could bear. Cain suffered the pangs of hell with no rest.

Genesis 4 13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

Unlike Abel in whom God had favor on coming from the mercy of God .

Abel is the first recorded apostle martyr. He had faith in the unseen God . He was given the temporal rest that comes from mixing faith in what he saw and heard, the shadow we are under.

That rest of faith made his burden lightener it did not remove the sufferings associated with a body of death. as it will be completely removed in the new heaven and earth. This is when the Sun and moon as temporal corruption time keepers it is winding down to the last day .

But again the temporal as a shadow remains as long as today is today (24 -7) or under the Sun .

If there is no mixing of faith as we are informed in Hebrews 4 then our burden of sufferings will not be shared . The gospel will be shown as having no effect.

The glorious rest ( no suffering)departed in Genesis and will return fully when we receive the promise. Then the shadow will disappear.

Revelation 21:22- 25 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

As long as today is today under the Sun the shadow gives us the rest we can walk in. It will not be fully with us as long as we live in these earthen bodies.

John 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

Where in any of that do you acknowledge that the Sabbath was created by God as a memorial to creation? That is it---it stands as a testament that there is one God and He created the world and on the 7th He ceased from creating. Everyone does summersaults and gymnastics trying to come up with ideas so that they don't need to keep it. Does not change the fact it was created for man to cease from his labors and turn their hearts and minds solely to God, as He commanded. Everyone is free to believe what they want, but it is preferable to do as God has said. Obedience to God's word is walking in the light. To do otherwise, always places you in the dark.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Where in any of that do you acknowledge that the Sabbath was created by God as a memorial to creation? That is it---it stands as a testament that there is one God and He created the world and on the 7th He ceased from creating. Everyone does summersaults and gymnastics trying to come up with ideas so that they don't need to keep it. Does not change the fact it was created for man to cease from his labors and turn their hearts and minds solely to God, as He commanded. Everyone is free to believe what they want, but it is preferable to do as God has said. Obedience to God's word is walking in the light. To do otherwise, always places you in the dark.

the Sabbath? Do you not know that God ordained various sabbath days and years, as well as the Year of Jubilee, which was to be a splendid sabbath rest? Best of all, we who are saved enter into the eternal rest (sabbath) of Jesus Christ - no more days or years of law-keeping

 

[visionary]

the Sabbath? Do you not know that God ordained various sabbath days and years, as well as the Year of Jubilee, which was to be a splendid sabbath rest? Best of all, we who are saved enter into the eternal rest (sabbath) of Jesus Christ - no more days or years of law-keeping

...

 

[bbbbbbb]

That was a 180 degree of illogical nonsense

I suppose you might wish to take that up with the writer of the letter to the Hebrews.

 

[visionary]

I suppose you might wish to take that up with the writer of the letter to the Hebrews.

Explain

 

[garee]

Where in any of that do you acknowledge that the Sabbath was created by God as a memorial to creation? That is it---it stands as a testament that there is one God and He created the world and on the 7th He ceased from creating. Everyone does summersaults and gymnastics trying to come up with ideas so that they don't need to keep it. Does not change the fact it was created for man to cease from his labors and turn their hearts and minds solely to God, as He commanded. Everyone is free to believe what they want, but it is preferable to do as God has said. Obedience to God's word is walking in the light. To do otherwise, always places you in the dark.

I would offer. First and foremost. To "keep" is to guard with all of ones new born again heart soul and new mind . One of the keeping is to remember the 7th day God rested or finished doing all the work necessary to create the temporal things seen

Unbelievers called faithless (no faith not little) in eternal God, they like Cain do not believe God in their hearts. As fools or atheist's they do not keep anything the Bible. (secularism) God's word offers they have no interest coming from God in the things of the God who wrote his law with his finger .And therefore do not do what the living word commands to a world dead in its trespasses and sin. Only Jesus the Son of man did not sin and fall short of the glory of God, his Father ..

The word of God in that way is not dead. . it effectively as a labor of His Love demands a response as being heard on high. Then we can seek His approval and not that of each other .

2 Timothy 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Like the remembrance he works in us that all the work was finished in 6 days we are also to remember the work of redemption that he has begun in us, promising us he will finish it till the last day. Again if we hear His voice we will study in order to seek his approval and we will if we hear the commandment and do the will . . believe God not seen.. . that works in the new creature.

Philippians informs us He who works in us to both will and empowers us to do the will is our confidence till the end. We are to have no confidence in the flesh the temporal things seen.

Philipians1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

So yes he does remind us he created all temporal things seen in 6 days but then again he reminds us of all things he has taught us .

Sometimes its the little word like and that gets by passed. For many years I personally missed that point. Then one day "and" seemed to jump off the page. "And" or "along with" is the word of confidence needed to be heard on high .

John14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Memory, one of the better gifts that accompanies salvation . .

Romans 3:23 All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I would offer. First and foremost. To "keep" is to guard with all of ones new born again heart soul and new mind . One of the keeping is to remember the 7th day God rested or finished doing all the work necessary to create the temporal things seen

I agree words count!

How many words in the 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath, do you need in order for you to believe its a special day set aside from creation Genesis 2:3, in the commandments of God written by Him and a day Jesus and His disciples also kept and the day we will be worshipping Him in heaven. Isaiah 66:23.

Exodus 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
re·mem·ber
(rĭ-mĕm′bər)

a. To recall to the mind with effort; think of again
b. To have (something) arise in one's memory; become aware of (something) suddenly or spontaneously:
2. To retain in the memory
3. To keep (someone) in mind as worthy of consideration or recognition.
4. To reward with a gift or tip

Holy

ho·ly
(hō′lē)
1. Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred.
2. Regarded with veneration or specified for a religious purpose: a holy book; a holy place.
3. Living or undertaken with highly moral or spiritual purpose; saintly: a holy person; a holy way of life.
4. Regarded as deserving special respect or reverence: The pursuit of peace is our holiest quest.


blessed
1.
a. Worthy of worship; holy.
b. Held in veneration; revered.

hallowed
(ˈhæləʊd; liturgical ˈhæləʊɪd)
adj
1. (Ecclesiastical Terms) set apart as sacred
2. (Ecclesiastical Terms) consecrated or holy

God Bless

 

[garee]

I agree words count!

How many words in the 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath, do you need in order for you to believe its a special day set aside from creation Genesis 2:3, in the commandments of God written by Him and a day Jesus and His disciples also kept and the day we will be worshipping Him in heaven. Isaiah 66:23.

Exodus 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
re·mem·ber
(rĭ-mĕm′bər)

a. To recall to the mind with effort; think of again
b. To have (something) arise in one's memory; become aware of (something) suddenly or spontaneously:
2. To retain in the memory
3. To keep (someone) in mind as worthy of consideration or recognition.
4. To reward with a gift or tip

Holy

ho·ly
(hō′lē)
1. Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred.
2. Regarded with veneration or specified for a religious purpose: a holy book; a holy place.
3. Living or undertaken with highly moral or spiritual purpose; saintly: a holy person; a holy way of life.
4. Regarded as deserving special respect or reverence: The pursuit of peace is our holiest quest.


blessed
1.
a. Worthy of worship; holy.
b. Held in veneration; revered.

hallowed
(ˈhæləʊd; liturgical ˈhæləʊɪd)
adj
1. (Ecclesiastical Terms) set apart as sacred
2. (Ecclesiastical Terms) consecrated or holy

God Bless

Yes I remember and beleive as God gives ear to hear that God rested on the seventh day. In six days he crested all temporal things seen by a work of His faith as our Faithfull and true Creator.. I remember and believe that also.

We hallow his living abiding word for giving us His unseen understanding.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes I remember and beleive as God gives ear to hear that God rested on the seventh day. In six days he crested all temporal things seen by a work of His faith as our Faithfull and true Creator.. I remember and believe that also.

We hallow his living abiding word for giving us His unseen understanding.

Great! Than you believe that God will give you the power to keep His day Holy as He commanded.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Great! Than you believe that God will give you the power to keep His day Holy as He commanded.

What a great pity that your God only lays claim to one day out of seven in your life and you have failed to enter into His eternal rest. Who owns the other six days of your life? God owns every breath that I take and I thank Him continually for the eternal rest granted by Him to me through the person and work of Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 5:17

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What a great pity that your God only lays claim to one day out of seven in your life and you have failed to enter into His eternal rest. Who owns the other six days of your life? God owns every breath that I take and I thank Him continually for the eternal rest granted by Him to me through the person and work of Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 5:17

You're right our God does own all our days and according to the 4th commandment, that is the day God set aside as His special Sabbath day, the day to Remember and rest, the day He Blessed, made Holy, Sanctified and Hallowed. God said to work 6 days and be productive but to keep His seventh day Sabbath Holy. Amen. God is in my heart every day.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You're right our God does own all our days and according to the 4th commandment, that is the day God set aside as His special Sabbath day, the day to Remember and rest, the day He Blessed, made Holy, Sanctified and Hallowed. God said to work 6 days and be productive but to keep His seventh day Sabbath Holy. Amen. God is in my heart every day.

So, God has only one "special" day out of seven. The other six are yours to work. Are you Jewish?