I keep being told that God objects to abortion...

[GOD Shines Forth!]

One of the other posters is right. You began this thread with your mind already made up.

I'll give an answer here for anyone who care to listen.

This is about Moses repeating the history of the Hebrew people to the new generation - a story of God's judgment of the Amorites. It has nothing to do with abortion.

In Genesis 15, God told Abraham that he was going to have countless descendants. For a time, they would be enslaved outside the Promised Land [400 years]. Then after that, God would take them BACK to the Promised Land. God said that in part it would happen this way "because the sins of the Amorites was not yet full."

Time between God telling Abraham this and it coming to pass was a little over 600 years. God gave the Amorites [and other peoples] over 600 years to repent. God was very merciful in that regard.

But when the time came for judgment to be pronounced and given - time was up. God wiped out the entire group - all. It was their judgment. Now, this may be for another topic, but infants and small children who do not understand the concept of personal sin do not go to hell. We can discuss that elsewhere.

God gave the Amorites ample time to repent. They were very rebellious. They did not take that opportunity.

Just like he gave some of the Assyrians an opportunity to repent - the Ninevites [and they were horribly wicked people]. THEY accepted that call to repentance. The Bible says that the king declared ALL in the kingdom, including animals, to be covered in ashes and sackcloth [symbol of humble repentance.]

The reason that the Hebrew people could not live with these and other people in the Promised Land is this - Exodus 23:33 = "Do not let them live in your land or they will cause you to sin against me because of the worship of their gods. That will be a snare to you."

Excellent post!

 

[chilehed]

How do people reconcile those two stances?

There's a huge difference between a recounting of a specific action taken against an enemy nation and the position that no unborn human being has the same inherent position before God as human beings that have been born.

Apples and oranges.

 

[yellowMan]

Here's another one for you to chew on OP: God told us not to be jealous and yet it is ok for Him to be jealous.

Also read Rom 9:20-21

 

[Maria Billingsley]

...but then I read Deuteronomy 2:33-34 and see that He sanctioned infanticide without any problem.

How do people reconcile those two stances?

God commanded the infiltration and destruction of a nation in order to take over the land. He did not command infanticide. I am sure many women and children were spared. Be blessed.

 

[Archivist]

This is how I understood it. God can kill,.we.cant. Except in self defence of war

My Amish former neighbors would tell you that we cannot kill even in self defense.

 

[plain jayne]

God commanded the infiltration and destruction of a nation in order to take over the land. He did not command infanticide. I am sure many women and children were spared. Be blessed.

Sometimes children were spared. Sometimes some women and children were spared. But sometimes none were spared, not even the animals.

And that's God business and if one reads the story from Genesis through Deuteronomy, one sees why.

 

[tturt]

God has a plan even the time and place of our births:
-“And he made from one man every race of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted epochs and the fixed boundaries of the places where they would live;” (Acts 17:26)

He formed us:
-“For You formed my innermost parts; You knit me [together] in my mother’s womb” Psa 139:13
-“The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.” Job 33:4
-"I will put ligaments on you, place muscles on you, and cover you with skin. I will put breath in you, and you will live. Then you will know that I am Yahweh." Eze 37:6
-"Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?” Mal 2;10

He has a plan for each one:
-“For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.” Jer 29:11
-“who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time eternal,” II Tim 1:9
-“And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.” Isa 58:11

 

[RDKirk]

God commands immoral acts?

Define "immoral." For that matter, define "moral."

 

[bekkilyn]

Well considering that God doesn't address abortion anywhere in the bible, people just decide on God's behalf what they believe he should think of the matter in order to promote whatever agendas they have and behave accordingly. Simple as that. We are really good at creating gods in our own image in the name of religious beliefs.

 

[TexFire316]

"Thou shalt not murder"

But, I suspect many people really don't care about what God commands. They are too content with telling God how it is.

 

[Swag365]

He ordered the killing of every man, woman, and child.

Does God order women to kill their unborn children today? Is that the reason that women give for killing their unborn children?

If God orders or gives license to people A to do X at point in time t1 under circumstance C1, it does not follow that people B at point in time t2 under circumstance C2 are permitted by God to do X.

Your argument is invalid, even if we assume the postulates to be true.

 

[Qwertyui0p]

Well considering that God doesn't address abortion anywhere in the bible, people just decide on God's behalf what they believe he should think of the matter in order to promote whatever agendas they have and behave accordingly. Simple as that. We are really good at creating gods in our own image in the name of religious beliefs.

The Bible doesn't specifically address abortion, but it does say that we shouldn't murder, and unborn babies are human (Jeremiah 1:5)

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

The point is that He sanctioned Infanticide, so there are no grounds for an outright ban on abortion.

If your argument had merit, then there would be no grounds for an outright ban on any manner of homicide, because the verse you cite is a command to kill every kind of human. It just happens that there's only one kind of human you might want to kill...for now, and that directs the focus of your argument.

 

[Neostarwcc]

The fact that God is against abortion isn't just in the Bible, it isnt just a basic tenant of Christianity, it just isnt right. Its barbaric and its one of the most disgusting things one can see in this world.


If abortion is okay answer me this? Why am I not allowed to post a picture of an aborted baby here without it causing me to get in huge trouble with the staff? Not to mention get an instant ban for over a week? Because its a barbaric and completely disgusting picture! It is by FAR the most vile and disgusting picture anybody could ever see and I've seen pictures of men being blown apart during WWII.

If you ask me people who are pro choice have 1. Never actually aborted a baby before or 2. Are so sick and demented in the head that they would be wiling to do such a disgusting , barbaric, and horrific thing to their own child just because they don't want their babies because they either couldn't cross their legs, or they follow the world believing the lies of feminism or the lies that it takes millions to raise a child. Because, poor people not even making $10 a week totally havent successfuly raised a child right?

And don't even get me started on the law that passed here in New York last year. Not only are we allowed to legally brutally murder our own fetuses but, now we can legally abort a full term, legally grown, and full term baby! A living breathing freaking BABY!

So now, whats the difference between me taking a shotgun and killing a full term baby with a shotgun or killing a full term baby in the barbaric way of abortion? There is and should be zero difference between the two except if the government made the right to shoot your baby with a shotgun legal everyone would do it right? Come on, in this sick and screwed up world?

Both are unlawful murder of a full term living baby. Both look barbaric and disgusting in nature both you wouldn't be parents anymore.

No, the Bible is Chuck full of evidence that humanity should not unlawfully kill! Its one of the ten commands for crying out loud! Why this even should this be up for debate i have no clue.

Your "evidence" is that God has killed infants in the Bible. Yes, but thats the difference! God who is creator and ruler of all kills! When the Lord kills it is always for just and right reasons. He is the perfect, sinless, God almighty! Im surprised you didn't bring up the flood where God killed the whole world but one righteous family.... I hear that one a lot from people questioning God's character.

Yet, you cannot see that God is just, you cannot see the evidence people have posted here. You are questioning and attacking Christian values and basic Christian beliefs while carrying the name of Christian yourself? You should be ashamed carrying the label of Christian. Christians are supposed to crucify sin and deny the ways of the world NOT live in them...

 

[Sketcher]

...but then I read Deuteronomy 2:33-34 and see that He sanctioned infanticide without any problem.

How do people reconcile those two stances?

God is the sovereign over life. Life is his to give and take away. God gave permission and mandate to eliminate those specific populations. He did not give permission, let alone mandate to kill other populations in the same manner, let alone anyone who is in your way, no matter how big or how small.

 

[Mark Quayle]

He ordered the killing of every man, woman, and child.

That means sanctioned infanticide. Which means that there is NO absolute prohibition on abortion (because abortion too is infanticide).

Where do you get that "ordered" and "sanctioned" are the same thing? He didn't say it was ok, nor did he say he approved of it --he demanded it.

To try to put this discussion in a more suitable point of view, consider the fact that sooner or later, pretty much everyone dies by God's hand, whether by old age, or whatever other cause. God is the one who decides when anyone dies-- so why aren't you complaining that people don't live as long as Noah and Methuselah? Why aren't you calling God a murderer?

"God is not like us." But for the best generic answer for this type of question, for people who want God to be like us, I say, "This life is not for this life." --And so, neither is death.

 

[Mark Quayle]

...but then I read Deuteronomy 2:33-34 and see that He sanctioned infanticide without any problem.

How do people reconcile those two stances?

in·fan·ti·cide
/inˈfan(t)əˌsīd/

noun

1. 1.
   the crime of killing a child within a year of birth.
   "cases of infanticide often involve extreme emotional disturbance"

When God demands Israel put to death another nation, it is not a crime. The killing of those particular children was necessary for the people of God to do, for them to understand the seriousness of Theocracy.

For what it is worth, I doubt they enjoyed it.

You seem to have a prejudice that brings out these generalities. Do you really think that God sanctions (present tense) infanticide, the crime of killing an infant?

One more thing, God is just, or he is not God. Those infants, (or anybody else, for that matter), will have suffered no more than they deserve, nor will they suffer more than they deserve after death.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

...but then I read Deuteronomy 2:33-34 and see that He sanctioned infanticide without any problem.

How do people reconcile those two stances?

Not sure you understand that God is the giver and taker of life. God decides every day who will live and who will die. God sanctioning the death of infants in pagan nations that would have corrupted the Israelites spiritually and physically is not the same thing as wicked men just slaughtering children today because they are an inconvenience. Two different things there, my friend.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

...but then I read Deuteronomy 2:33-34 and see that He sanctioned infanticide without any problem.

How do people reconcile those two stances?

I believe God sometimes takes life for the greater good.

For example: If a bunch of young teenage boys broke into a top secret government facility in a big mountain, and they accidentally released a deadly virus that infected them (and this virus could destroy the majority of the world's population), and they were about to escape the mountain, and the president was informed of the situation, what would he do? Imagine if these kids could be saved in the early stages of the virus because there is enough anti-serum (Which is hard to replicate) to save them, but if they get out, it is a guarantee sure thing that billions of people are going to die a horrible and painful death.

I can imagine any good President
(who wants to protect his people and many others) would say,
​

"Send in the F-14's." "Destroy that mountain!"​

Sure, it would be sad, that those innocent kids would have to die, but their sacrifice would save the entire world. We see in the Old Testament, that animals were sacrificed to temporarily atone for sin. Lots of animals were killed for this purpose. They pointed to the ultimate sacrifice that would forever atone for sin (Who would be Jesus Christ). Life for life. The One for the many.

In other words, I think there are cases were the ends do not justify the means. But I think there are some cases (like the ones I mentioned) whereby it would apply. For remember, GOD had commanded Saul to kill all the Amalekites. But he did not obey or trust GOD. He let the king of the Amalekites and much livestock alive. For this reason, (and another point of disobedience), GOD removed Saul as king. But from our perspective it may seem cruel to wipe out a people. But we forget, that they were a wicked and sinful people that GOD was going to wipe them out anyways. GOD could have given them all heart attacks. But the LORD wanted His people to act on His behalf. To be His arm of justice. Granted, today, we are to love our enemies and to do good unto them. We are under a New Covenant with New commands. We now fight solely a spiritual battle. The Old Covenant showed that GOD is a rewarder to those who followed Him, and He was a punisher to those who disobeyed Him. It shows that GOD is a fair and just GOD. But the point here is that without the One sacrificing or dying, many could then not be saved. We would not be saved. Jesus. He is the One who died for the many (Me, you, and the whole world to offer them the free gift of life to us).

 

[bekkilyn]

The Bible doesn't specifically address abortion, but it does say that we shouldn't murder, and unborn babies are human (Jeremiah 1:5)

They are genetically human, but they aren't viable human persons (which is what murder would require), at least up to some point of physical development when practically no one would dispute it and there can and likely should be some debate as to where and under what conditions to draw the line. But when we are simply talking about a fertilized egg or an embryo, no.

And when it comes to actual murder, we still create gods in our own image because we are defining what is a murder and what is not a murder on his behalf. After all, it's perfectly fine and righteous to blow up an entire city with an atomic bomb but somehow a woman should get the death penalty for taking a morning after pill?