...but then I read Deuteronomy 2:33-34 and see that He sanctioned infanticide without any problem.
How do people reconcile those two stances?
How do people reconcile those two stances?
I keep being told that God objects to abortion...
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Different situation, different covenant. God does make the call in either case.
Abortion and infanticide are not compatible with the lifestyle Christ requires of Christians.
That does not, however, suggest that Christians have a mission to use the sheriff's gun to force pagans to act like Christians.
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How do you not? He is LORD.
David echoed the Deut. sentiment in Psalm 137:
"O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed,
blessed shall he be who repays you
with what you have done to us!
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones
and dashes them against the rock!"
The context of those times matters. Israel was a called out nation and it was them against the world. "The LORD is a man of war..." (Ex. 15:3) and He waged it through Israel.
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Erm, yes we do. Christians have taken many lives in war or self-defence.
The point is that He sanctioned Infanticide, so there are no grounds for an outright ban on abortion.
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NerdGirl
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God ordering a nation to be destroyed is not the same as someone deciding they just don't feel like having a baby.
"The point is that He sanctioned Infanticide, so there are no grounds for an outright ban on abortion." So you've already made up your mind, and aren't interested in a discussion. Got it.
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Petros2015
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That was a special case.
One of the babies had eaten a golden ticket to Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory and we weren't sure which one.
It won't happen again.
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He ordered the killing of every man, woman, and child.
That means sanctioned infanticide. Which means that there is NO absolute prohibition on abortion (because abortion too is infanticide).
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plain jayne
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One of the other posters is right. You began this thread with your mind already made up.
I'll give an answer here for anyone who care to listen.
This is about Moses repeating the history of the Hebrew people to the new generation - a story of God's judgment of the Amorites. It has nothing to do with abortion.
In Genesis 15, God told Abraham that he was going to have countless descendants. For a time, they would be enslaved outside the Promised Land [400 years]. Then after that, God would take them BACK to the Promised Land. God said that in part it would happen this way "because the sins of the Amorites was not yet full."
Time between God telling Abraham this and it coming to pass was a little over 600 years. God gave the Amorites [and other peoples] over 600 years to repent. God was very merciful in that regard.
But when the time came for judgment to be pronounced and given - time was up. God wiped out the entire group - all. It was their judgment. Now, this may be for another topic, but infants and small children who do not understand the concept of personal sin do not go to hell. We can discuss that elsewhere.
God gave the Amorites ample time to repent. They were very rebellious. They did not take that opportunity.
Just like he gave some of the Assyrians an opportunity to repent - the Ninevites [and they were horribly wicked people]. THEY accepted that call to repentance. The Bible says that the king declared ALL in the kingdom, including animals, to be covered in ashes and sackcloth [symbol of humble repentance.]
The reason that the Hebrew people could not live with these and other people in the Promised Land is this - Exodus 23:33 = "Do not let them live in your land or they will cause you to sin against me because of the worship of their gods. That will be a snare to you."
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You misunderstand.
I'm not criticising the actions of Joshua. I'm criticising the position that says God hates child-killing so abortion is wrong. God clearly does not not hate infanticide (as he has ordered it to occur at least once before).
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There’s a difference between murder and killing. When God sanctions it, it’s not murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being. Obviously if it was commanded by God it wasn’t an unlawful killing.
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Petros2015
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God didn’t like killing everyone in the flood either but apparently it was necessary according to His plan. You have to consider what death is from God’s perspective. Death is nothing more than a transfer from one place to another. It is not the end of that individual. God decides where that person goes after he dies. Those of us who trust in God know that He is merciful, kind, loving, and just. So we trust that He will judge everyone accordingly.
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plain jayne
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And I think you misunderstand the bigger picture. And it's because you are making God's judgment on a people and abortion the same thing.
They are not.
God knew when a people-group had become so wicked - wicked to the point of no return - to the point of harm to themselves and their children AS a people group. At that moment - a moment only God can discern, he passed judgment. And that can include death.
Those little children who died went to be with God and are STILL with him today.
Mankind aborted babies because they are a nuisance, inconvenience, and considered not human is NOT mankind's decision to make.
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Lets try this,...A judge sets a sentence of execution for whatever reason, he has that right, whether we feel he is wrong or right to do so. And while its generally against the law/immoral to kill, it is not considered such when a judges (God in this case) sentence is carried out, any more than it is in war.
We can whine all day long the sentence was unfair, but it will still be carried out
Hope that helps..
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