does the early church fathers teach Calvinism?
does the early church fathers teach Calvinism?
the early church taught a kind of cooperative synergism between man choosing to repent and God choosing to forgive and save the repentant sinner.
Ah. That's what I've been trying to tell people for years. They are two sides to the same coin.
Biblical predestination in eph 1 means God before time save the elect in Christ. On the other hand I often heard calvinist say God degree some for salvation and some for damnation.Calvinistic predestination hijacked a large portion of the ReformationIt's a damaging view of God and of the world, perhaps worse than most heresies.
I have to watch the entire thing? Can you summarize in words?Now you could quote Loraine Boettner, just throw up your hands and say “hey, it’s not just me saying it, Calvinists and reformed theologians think so too!”
Conflating mans choice to repent and believe with Gods choice to forgive and save is a common misunderstanding. When people make that mistake they’ll often say “you believe man has the power to save himself???” Etc etc.
Still, that’s not the point, the point is that man can respond in faith to God when He graciously makes the offer of salvation to all people.
Dr. Jerry Walls has two incredible lectures on this.
Sorry @Jesusthekingofking if this ^^ slightly hijacks your topic.
I have to watch the entire thing? Can you summarize in words?
Now you could quote Loraine Boettner, just throw up your hands and say “hey, it’s not just me saying it, Calvinists and reformed theologians think so too!”
The questioner hears a Calvinist say “God loves sinners,” and they believe in our shared understanding of what love means, but that’s not the way that the Calvinist is using the word love, he has a second meaning to the word love that he won’t always share. A Calvinist can use “love” and mean temporal blessing.
really? can a calvinist says 'God love mankind'? sometime they are so defensive and stuck in their system they neglect the simple truth.I could. Dr. Walls is a great speaker so listening is actually a lot of fun, still, the main theme of the talk is that Calvinists are using Christian language but they have a private Calvinistic meaning hidden behind many of the Christian words.
Predestination, sovereignty, even love, Calvinists will use these words but won’t always explain what they mean, they’re benefiting on the fact that the questioner doesn’t understand the Calvinists private use of the word.
The questioner hears a Calvinist say “God loves sinners,” and they believe in our shared understanding of what love means, but that’s not the way that the Calvinist is using the word love, he has a second meaning to the word love that he won’t always share. A Calvinist can use “love” and mean temporal blessing.
In this way Calvinists gather many people to their church who don’t fully understand or believe in Calvinism.
really? can a calvinist says 'God love mankind'? sometime they are so defensive and stuck in their system they neglect the simple truth.
A Calvinist could say God “loves mankind,” but that love is a general thing, he “loves us all” (in their opinion) because he provides rain, food and holds back the evil in our hearts. He gives all of mankind a small taste of the joys of this life, but he doesn’t give his Son for all of mankind.
He gives people rain and crops and the joys of friendship, but not Jesus. Under Calvinism Jesus’ sacrifice isn’t for the world, it is for a special group only.
If you believe Jesus died for the world, then you can’t be a 5 point Calvinist.
“Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Not every Calvinist will understand that verse in the same way, but many will say hate means hate and God hated Esau.
God hates sinners and he didn’t elect many of them to salvation, furthermore it’s his prerogative if he “passes over” the unelected, damning them forever.
I believe Calvinism misses the heart of the gospel by making God into the Levite or the Pharisee, passing over the robbed and wounded man dying by the roadside.
Calvinists will reply “he’s God and he does whatever he pleases.” So our next question should be then what pleases Him?
Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
A Calvinist could say God “loves mankind,” but that love is a general thing, he “loves us all” (in their opinion) because he provides rain, food and holds back the evil in our hearts. He gives all of mankind a small taste of the joys of this life, but he doesn’t give his Son for all of mankind.
He gives people rain and crops and the joys of friendship, but not Jesus. Under Calvinism Jesus’ sacrifice isn’t for the world, it is for a special group only.
If you believe Jesus died for the world, then you can’t be a 5 point Calvinist.
“Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Not every Calvinist will understand that verse in the same way, but many will say hate means hate and God hated Esau.
God hates sinners and he didn’t elect many of them to salvation, furthermore it’s his prerogative if he “passes over” the unelected, damning them forever.
I believe Calvinism misses the heart of the gospel by making God into the Levite or the Pharisee, passing over the robbed and wounded man dying by the roadside.
Calvinists will reply “he’s God and he does whatever he pleases.” So our next question should be then what pleases Him?
Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
You can't go around saying "God doesn't need your help or your permission, He is God" and not expect people to become upset. Jesus said it and look at what people did to him. Paul said it, and look how he was treated. Calvin had to see it coming.Poor Calvin, they just won't let him rest in peace.