Question for the Ladies, Men Can Answer as well if they want to

[Sammy-San]

Makeup often gives a more youthful appearance.

Also side question. You do not have to answer but are you a man or a woman?

Did I inspire you to use the term neotonous?

People do have gender dimorphism that animals dont because we are made in Gods image. A man with makeup will not have the neotonous face of a woman but he will have distorted masculine features with an unnatural neotony. this is a wierd comparison but its similar to how voldemort during the first wizarding war didnt look like older version of teenage tom riddle from chamber of secrets nor did he look like the mummy or goblet of fire voldemort, but a tom riddle with waxlike and distorted features-a wierd intermediate (mentioned in half blood prince book, not in the movie though).

 

[Sammy-San]

Why do you think? We evolved gender roles for survival reasons. Nothing is wasted. Gender roles are psychologically embedded within us. Even those who pride themselves for not caring about such things and being above such stuff often falter when you look a little deeper into their psychology.

Something I have learned about myself these past several years. Growing up gender roles did not really make much sense too me, yet digging a little deeper I can find them there. Albeit in my case I think genetic mutations make me express gender roles in a somewhat skewed manner. I used to look down on conservative and feminist men, and while I have been willing to treat women like dirt just as men, there are times where my white knighthood becomes really sappy. Even if my expressions are somewhat different, I am not immune and above such things.

There is also good reason for there being more historical pushback against men acting like women than the other way around. Men evolved a psychology to be more expendable for a reason. Mainly sperm is cheaper than eggs. Losing a few men is not the same deal to a population as losing women are. One man can impregnate multiple women. It makes perfect sense that we evolved socially to be more protective over women's physical well being more than men. Hence the reason women are more neotenous than men on average. Evolution works as increments. The easiest path for women to be perceived more worthy of protection is them piggybacking physical cues such as cuteness and smallness that we have already evolved for being protective over children.

When a man takes on more feminine roles and mannerisms other people take this as him broadcasting that he may not fulfill his role as a man to potentially lay down his life for a woman, and even worse expect to be treated as a woman and given the same protection and safety that isn't given to a man. This can send many people men and women into a frenzy.

There are of course interesting exceptions to the rule. Human psychology is complex. Men of higher status are naturally given more protection and care than men of lower status. People in the past have pointed out men in centuries past wore makeup and more elaborate colorful clothes as proof that gender roles are social constructs that change in time. Yet I am not so sure about that. The higher classes did, yet the more common man had more a of a rugged appearance. I think when you see instances of men acting more feminine and not being punished for it, it is still within our biology. Those men are of importance so the idea of them giving out more cues of protection is understandable. All men might have a switch where under certain social circumstances they act more feminine. Still.. at the end of the day I see a biological competent. Something that doesn't threaten the women "child" man "parent" evolved psychology view.

Feminine vs Masculine facial features. What makes a giga-Stacy : Vindicta

 

[Sammy-San]

I thought I already explained this? Some men are, but not to the same extent. Psychologically a woman taking on a man's role isn't going to have the same anger as a man taking on a woman's role. Although there is still blowback with the former, it's just a wall that's more easily defeated.

Why do you think animal eggs arent viewed as private?

 

[Sammy-San]

Makeup often gives a more youthful appearance.

Also side question. You do not have to answer but are you a man or a woman?

How does looking or sounding more youthful have to do with eggs or sperm? Grammatical gender exists as a concept itself. How does sperm and eggs relate to it?

 

[Sammy-San]

Yeah, something which surprises me. You'd think some transgenders would want more ground on gender having real physical realities (in the brain), yet many go for the idea that gender and the like are a result of mostly culture. Which is pretty laughable.

The consequence of the transgender community having to adhere to the wishes of the feminist community. I know of one transgender woman who had a more biological view but after being lambasted by fellow feminists she suddenly switched her position and said gender is more of a cultural construct. Something that probably kills her inside.



That's interesting.. yeah there's not reason for a 3rd anything to have any evolutionary basis. 3rd gender seems more like terminology that is used by people who want to seem more deep and interesting than they actually are.. lol.

What I meant before was about how sperm and eggs line up with gramattical gender.

 

[MehGuy]

How does looking or sounding more youthful have to do with eggs or sperm? Grammatical gender exists as a concept itself. How does sperm and eggs relate to it?

I think the problem is that you are skimming my posts. That post in the last page that was long was responded by you in less than a minute. You need to digest what you read. Or else we are just talking past each other.

 

[Sammy-San]

Why do you think? We evolved gender roles for survival reasons. Nothing is wasted. Gender roles are psychologically embedded within us. Even those who pride themselves for not caring about such things and being above such stuff often falter when you look a little deeper into their psychology.

Something I have learned about myself these past several years. Growing up gender roles did not really make much sense too me, yet digging a little deeper I can find them there. Albeit in my case I think genetic mutations make me express gender roles in a somewhat skewed manner. I used to look down on conservative and feminist men, and while I have been willing to treat women like dirt just as men, there are times where my white knighthood becomes really sappy. Even if my expressions are somewhat different, I am not immune and above such things.

There is also good reason for there being more historical pushback against men acting like women than the other way around. Men evolved a psychology to be more expendable for a reason. Mainly sperm is cheaper than eggs. Losing a few men is not the same deal to a population as losing women are. One man can impregnate multiple women. It makes perfect sense that we evolved socially to be more protective over women's physical well being more than men. Hence the reason women are more neotenous than men on average. Evolution works as increments. The easiest path for women to be perceived more worthy of protection is them piggybacking physical cues such as cuteness and smallness that we have already evolved for being protective over children.

When a man takes on more feminine roles and mannerisms other people take this as him broadcasting that he may not fulfill his role as a man to potentially lay down his life for a woman, and even worse expect to be treated as a woman and given the same protection and safety that isn't given to a man. This can send many people men and women into a frenzy.

There are of course interesting exceptions to the rule. Human psychology is complex. Men of higher status are naturally given more protection and care than men of lower status. People in the past have pointed out men in centuries past wore makeup and more elaborate colorful clothes as proof that gender roles are social constructs that change in time. Yet I am not so sure about that. The higher classes did, yet the more common man had more a of a rugged appearance. I think when you see instances of men acting more feminine and not being punished for it, it is still within our biology. Those men are of importance so the idea of them giving out more cues of protection is understandable. All men might have a switch where under certain social circumstances they act more feminine. Still.. at the end of the day I see a biological competent. Something that doesn't threaten the women "child" man "parent" evolved psychology view.

Is what you said about sperm and eggs why concepts like white knighthood and womanizers (but not manizers) exist?

 

[Sammy-San]

I think the problem is that you are skimming my posts. That post in the last page that was long was responded by you in less than a minute. You need to digest what you read. Or else we are just talking past each other.

I read your posts. You mentioned youthfulness and things of that nature.

 

[MehGuy]

Is what you said about sperm and eggs why concepts like white knighthood and womanizers (but not manizers) exist?

I would say it's a good evolutionary psychological origin. Not too familiar with the term "womanizer".

As far as calling men successful with women as "stud" it makes sense. I've heard feminists whine about not being called "studs" if they are popular with men.. and I'm like.. then pretty much any woman would be a "stud", lol. The term has much more meaning when applied to men.

 

[Sammy-San]

I would say it's a good evolutionary psychological origin. Not too familiar with the term "womanizer".

As far as calling men successful with women as "stud" it makes sense. I've heard feminists whine about not being called "studs" if they are popular with men.. and I'm like.. then pretty much any woman would be a "stud", lol. The term has much more meaning when applied to men.

Do you think it has to do with sperm or eggs or gender as a functional concept being both appearance and anatomy?

 

[MehGuy]

Do you think it has to do with sperm or eggs or gender as a functional concept being both appearance and anatomy?

Like I said before it has to do with sperm being cheaper than eggs. You should be able to follow the logical consequences of that. Not sure what you mean by appearance and anatomy.

As a culture we need to better teach people about the realities of sex and gender. Many are in a hazy confusion where they tend to think everything is the result of social upbringing. We demonize masculinity and say things like "a stay at home father is just as good as a stay at home mother", and that you can be anything and women will still like you. Unless they're duped by the "patriarchy". Sadly this is creating a lot of problems with relationships and relations between men and women. Especially the younger generations.

There is also possible consequences to living in a self esteem pushing society. Like the upper class men I mentioned earlier sometimes adopting more feminine appearances and mannerisms and not getting slack or as much slack for it, this might be happening to men at large today. As a millennial I know many of my peers were taught about how apparently unique and special and valuable we are. This might be triggering psychology only important men have felt in the past. This could be causing men to take on less masculine roles, in turn turning us off to many women. Save the few men who can still get away with it, due to good looks (even high neoteny for a man) or high social standing not the average less neotenous faced man. Hence this incel stuff you see today.

 

[Sammy-San]

Like I said before it has to do with sperm being cheaper than eggs. You should be able to follow the logical consequences of that. Not sure what you mean by appearance and anatomy.

As a culture we need to better teach people about the realities of sex and gender. Many are in a hazy confusion where they think everything is the result of social upbringing. Or being taught garbage that you can act any way you want and save "toxic masculinity and patriarchy" women will find you attractive. Sadly it's creating a lot of problems with relationships and general relations between men and women. Especially the younger generations.

I also think these are consequences of living in a self esteem pushing society. Like the upper class men I mentioned earlier adopting more feminine appearances and mannerisms, this might be happening to men at large today. As a millennial I know many of my peers were taught about how apparently special and unique and valuable we are. Feel good crap that does not mesh with reality, and simply makes us unprepared for it and probably more feminine which in itself turns women off of men. Hence the MGTOW (although I am sympathetic towards some of them) and incel stuff you see popping up today.

i think objectification shows gender is about anatomy and appearence, not just sperm and eggs. I dont think it has to do with sperm being cheaper than eggs.

 

[Sammy-San]

Like I said before it has to do with sperm being cheaper than eggs. You should be able to follow the logical consequences of that. Not sure what you mean by appearance and anatomy.

As a culture we need to better teach people about the realities of sex and gender. Many are in a hazy confusion where they tend to think everything is the result of social upbringing. We demonize masculinity and say things like "a stay at home father is just as good as a stay at home mother", and that you can be anything and women will still like you. Unless they're duped by the "patriarchy". Sadly this is creating a lot of problems with relationships and relations between men and women. Especially the younger generations.

There is also possible consequences to living in a self esteem pushing society. Like the upper class men I mentioned earlier sometimes adopting more feminine appearances and mannerisms and not getting slack or as much slack for it, this might be happening to men at large today. As a millennial I know many of my peers were taught about how apparently unique and special and valuable we are. This might be triggering psychology only important men have felt in the past. This could be causing men to take on less masculine roles, in turn turning us off to many women. Save the few men who can still get away with it, due to good looks (even high neoteny for a man) or high social standing not the average less neotenous faced man. Hence this incel stuff you see today.

Whats high neoteny?

 

[MehGuy]

Whats high neoteny?

A man with more childlike features compared to other men. They have done studies that show even men with neotenous features receive more care and concern. Humans on a whole are highly neotenous apes compared to our ancestors.

I have personal experience with this. My family are highly neotenous for Europeans. Most of my life I was not treated like a threat like other men are, and people seem to be more friendly and gentle with me. Although given I am now in my 30s that has somewhat faded away, and I do have a pretty non-neotenous roman looking nose, lol. How you look has a great effect on how you are treated in society.

 

[Sammy-San]

A man with more childlike features compared to other men. They have done studies that show even men with neotenous features receive more care and concern. Humans on a whole are highly neotenous apes compared to our ancestors.

I have personal experience with this. My family are highly neotenous for Europeans. Most of my life I was not treated like a threat like other men are, and people seem to be more friendly and gentle with me. Although given I am now in my 30s that has somewhat faded away, and I do have a pretty non-neotenous roman looking nose, lol. How you look has a great effect on how you are treated in society.

Does this have to do with objectification and related behaviors?

 

[MehGuy]

Does this have to do with objectification and related behaviors?

Not sure what you mean by objectification. Everyone is objectified for something.

 

[Sammy-San]

A man with more childlike features compared to other men. They have done studies that show even men with neotenous features receive more care and concern. Humans on a whole are highly neotenous apes compared to our ancestors.

I have personal experience with this. My family are highly neotenous for Europeans. Most of my life I was not treated like a threat like other men are, and people seem to be more friendly and gentle with me. Although given I am now in my 30s that has somewhat faded away, and I do have a pretty non-neotenous roman looking nose, lol. How you look has a great effect on how you are treated in society.

even a masculine face with neotonous features still has that certain masculine look. There is symmetry between a persons anatomy and appearence. Why is that?

even with veils you can see a certain facial structure. If Michael jackson wore a hijab in Bahrain instead of a burqa he would still look like a man, and even if he was mistaken for a woman due to neotonous distorted masculine features at their root they would still be masculine.

 

[MehGuy]

even a masculine face with neotonous features still has that certain masculine look. There is symmetry between a persons anatomy and appearence. Why is that?


even with veils you can see a certain facial structure. If Michael jackson wore a hijab in Bahrain instead of a burqa he would still look like a man, and even if he was mistaken for a woman due to neotonous distorted masculine features at their root they would still be masculine.

You do not need to look fully like a woman to reap the benefits of neotneous cues. Obviously they will not be as strong as a typical woman.

I frequent some female incel subs, mainly to study their psychology. Some of them report to having very non-neotenous features and even being honestly mistaken for trans on occasion. They report to men around them being more rough with them and even expecting them to do some heavy lifting and whatnot. Still, I doubt they're ever treated the same as a typical man.

 

[Sammy-San]

Not sure what you mean by objectification. Everyone is objectified for something.

Like womanizers. There really is no exact female equivalent of that word. The motives of female promiscuity are different.

 

[MehGuy]

Like womanizers. There really is no exact female equivalent of that word. The motives of female promiscuity are different.

Often looked down more on. Which is sexist and sad. Although evolutionary understandable. There is a toxic element of man that wants to control reproductive lives of women. The over protective father who focuses on the daughter yet is less controlling of their sons.

Which is why I do not really understand the term womanizing for a man. Because from my limited knowledge of it, it's kind of a put down for a man. Which seems a little strange. Still, a sex repressed culture hits men too. Womanzier might have more of a jealous origin too it, idk.. lol.