Futurist Only So wait.. there's a dedicated altar and ritual sacrifices being performed again NOW?

throughfiierytrial

Truth-Lover
Site Supporter
Apr 7, 2014
2,851
796
✟523,632.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's 100% relevant because there will be a third temple built and sacrifices will begin, and be taken away, for the abomination of desolation that ushers in the Great Tribulation. This is scripture, read the book of Daniel. These are end times events that will happen within the world. We may be seeing everything being fulfilled, we may be those who remain alive at the Lord's coming.

How is that not relevant?.
I believe the daily sacrifice is the present day worship service. This meaning of *daily sacrifice* changed before Christ...in my opinion. See Psalms...
Psalm 141:2:
May my prayer be set before you like incense;
may the lifting up of my hands be like the evening sacrifice.
 
Upvote 0

Running2win

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2020
738
464
64
St. Louis
✟25,393.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
How does God identify the Israel that He saves?

1. By their physical DNA of Abraham's genes?
2. By their spiritual DNA of faithfulness and obedience to His Son?

Verdict?
Both.
Israel now are Messianic Jews, and few are saved. But After Jesus comes back, the whole nation will repent. It's a small thing for God to know the lineage of the Jews since Abraham. He counts each one of the stars and calls them by name.

You don't know this? :scratch:

Psalm 147
New Living Translation Par ▾
1Praise the LORD!



How good to sing praises to our God!

How delightful and how fitting!

2The LORD is rebuilding Jerusalem

and bringing the exiles back to Israel.

3He heals the brokenhearted

and bandages their wounds.

4He counts the stars

and calls them all by name.

5How great is our Lord! His power is absolute!

His understanding is beyond comprehension!

6The LORD supports the humble,

but he brings the wicked down into the dust.
 
Upvote 0

throughfiierytrial

Truth-Lover
Site Supporter
Apr 7, 2014
2,851
796
✟523,632.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Paul is clear that the Daniel 11 prophecy involves a rebuilt temple before the great
tribulation can even start.
Daniel 8 gives a time of 2300 days, so it seems that is when the sacrifices would start
daily and stop at the 1290 days when the abomination of desolation happens.
what do you believe the abomination that causes desolation will be?
It could be lawlessness; worship may be abandoned.
I know Daniel says that the place of His sanctuary will be brought low...a desolation then...and Truth will be thrown to the ground.
 
Upvote 0

throughfiierytrial

Truth-Lover
Site Supporter
Apr 7, 2014
2,851
796
✟523,632.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Both.
Israel now are Messianic Jews, and few are saved. But After Jesus comes back, the whole nation will repent. It's a small thing for God to know the lineage of the Jews since Abraham. He counts each one of the stars and calls them by name.

You don't know this? :scratch:

Psalm 147
New Living Translation Par ▾
1Praise the LORD!



How good to sing praises to our God!

How delightful and how fitting!

2The LORD is rebuilding Jerusalem

and bringing the exiles back to Israel.

3He heals the brokenhearted

and bandages their wounds.

4He counts the stars

and calls them all by name.

5How great is our Lord! His power is absolute!

His understanding is beyond comprehension!

6The LORD supports the humble,

but he brings the wicked down into the dust.
But there is division within Christendom over just who these Jews the Bible refers to actually are. I believe them to be all true believers for Gentiles were grafted in and as for physical Israel only a remnant will be saved.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,503
2,336
43
Helena
✟207,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
I was just expressing that I am perplexed. I'm not following well enough yet...what prophesy is fulfilled in this act?
I believe the lawlessness of these days here in the US is alarming...fulfillment or advancing days of the prophesy of II Thessalonians 2

Daniel 12:11
The specific prophecy that Jesus told us to watch for is Daniel 12:11. That prophecy cannot be fulfilled if they have not been doing sacrifices for over 1900 years and never started again, unless you're hyperspiritualizing the books because you don't believe in literal fulfillment. Think back to how people in the 18th and 19th centuries had to look at prophecies about the gathering of the Jews that were scattered among the nations in Isaiah, Ezekiel, Micah, Jeremiah, Zephaniah, etc etc. They must have thought that there's no way that'd happen in the future, and tried to apply them to past events or spiritualized them. But there's been a literal fulfillment in the last 100 years.

So yes, Daniel 12:11 can have a literal fulfillment, if sacrifices start again, they can be taken away, and the abomination of desolation can be a quite literal event.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Running2win
Upvote 0

Running2win

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2020
738
464
64
St. Louis
✟25,393.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But there is division within Christendom over just who these Jews the Bible refers to actually are. I believe them to be all true believers for Gentiles were grafted in and as for physical Israel only a remnant will be saved.

I agree, the Church is a type of spiritual Israel, and a true Jew believes in the Messiah Jesus. But in the Heavenly city we have the 12 tribes and 12 apostles. And Israel was first and because of unbelief they were broken off and punished for rejecting the Messiah, but will be grafted back into their natural tree and partake of the root (which is Christ).

But the remnant now (in this age) are Messianic Jews. When Jesus comes back, a larger remnant will be saved-the whole nation that is left at one time.
Zech 12,
6“On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a flame that sets a woodpile ablaze or like a burning torch among sheaves of grain. They will burn up all the neighboring nations right and left, while the people living in Jerusalem remain secure.

7“The LORD will give victory to the rest of Judah first, before Jerusalem, so that the people of Jerusalem and the royal line of David will not have greater honor than the rest of Judah. 8On that day the LORD will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God, like the angel of the LORD who goes before them! 9For on that day I will begin to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10“Then I will pour out a spiritb of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. 11The sorrow and mourning in Jerusalem on that day will be like the great mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the valley of Megiddo.

12“All Israel will mourn, each clan by itself, and with the husbands separate from their wives. The clan of David will mourn alone, as will the clan of Nathan, 13the clan of Levi, and the clan of Shimei. 14Each of the surviving clans from Judah will mourn separately, and with the husbands separate from their wives.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟806,567.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Both.
Israel now are Messianic Jews, and few are saved. But After Jesus comes back, the whole nation will repent. It's a small thing for God to know the lineage of the Jews since Abraham. He counts each one of the stars and calls them by name.

You don't know this? :scratch:

Psalm 147
New Living Translation Par ▾
1Praise the LORD!



How good to sing praises to our God!

How delightful and how fitting!

2The LORD is rebuilding Jerusalem

and bringing the exiles back to Israel.

3He heals the brokenhearted

and bandages their wounds.

4He counts the stars

and calls them all by name.

5How great is our Lord! His power is absolute!

His understanding is beyond comprehension!

6The LORD supports the humble,

but he brings the wicked down into the dust.

If someone possesses the physical DNA but not the spiritual DNA, will God still save him/her because he/she possesses the physical DNA?

Incidentally, have you been translated into the kingdom yet?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟806,567.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But there is division within Christendom over just who these Jews the Bible refers to actually are. I believe them to be all true believers for Gentiles were grafted in and as for physical Israel only a remnant will be saved.

There never was a division historically before the 19th century. The historical true Church was unanimous in declaring that spiritual DNA alone -- faith and obedience -- identified God's Chosen People.

Salvation by race -- physical DNA -- emerged as a cornerstone of dispensational futurism in the 19th century.

It embraced the tenets of ancient racialized pharisaic talmudism.

It is a fantasy and fallacy, a deception and delusion, of the ancient racialized pharisaic talmudic antichrist. (1 John 2:22,23)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟806,567.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I agree, the Church is a type of spiritual Israel, and a true Jew believes in the Messiah Jesus. But in the Heavenly city we have the 12 tribes and 12 apostles. And Israel was first and because of unbelief they were broken off and punished for rejecting the Messiah, but will be grafted back into their natural tree and partake of the root (which is Christ).

But the remnant now (in this age) are Messianic Jews. When Jesus comes back, a larger remnant will be saved-the whole nation that is left at one time.
Zech 12,
6“On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a flame that sets a woodpile ablaze or like a burning torch among sheaves of grain. They will burn up all the neighboring nations right and left, while the people living in Jerusalem remain secure.

7“The LORD will give victory to the rest of Judah first, before Jerusalem, so that the people of Jerusalem and the royal line of David will not have greater honor than the rest of Judah. 8On that day the LORD will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God, like the angel of the LORD who goes before them! 9For on that day I will begin to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10“Then I will pour out a spiritb of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. 11The sorrow and mourning in Jerusalem on that day will be like the great mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the valley of Megiddo.

12“All Israel will mourn, each clan by itself, and with the husbands separate from their wives. The clan of David will mourn alone, as will the clan of Nathan, 13the clan of Levi, and the clan of Shimei. 14Each of the surviving clans from Judah will mourn separately, and with the husbands separate from their wives.

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient "all Israel", comprised of the believing remnant of Israel (Romans 9:27, 11:1-5), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.
 
Upvote 0

throughfiierytrial

Truth-Lover
Site Supporter
Apr 7, 2014
2,851
796
✟523,632.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient "all Israel", comprised of the believing remnant of Israel (Romans 9:27, 11:1-5), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.
I don't see this as 2 Israels. Not all Israel is Israel because some did not go in because of unbelief. All who believed are saved and all saved are all Israel.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟806,567.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I don't see this as 2 Israels. Not all Israel is Israel because some did not go in because of unbelief. All who believed are saved and all saved are all Israel.

Yes, all who believe and are saved are "all Israel". And all who do not believe and are not saved are not "all Israel"; they are "of Israel".

Thus, two different Israels, the saved and the unsaved. A reflection of the entirety of humanity.
 
Upvote 0

SamanthaAnastasia

Just a library lady
Dec 21, 2018
1,272
1,286
Earth
✟168,870.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
I've been unaware since this wasn't something in the news for me but even on these forums I see that there was an altar, meant to be able to be taken apart and reassembled on the temple mount, and that the Sanhedrin have been performing animal sacrifices since 2019?

Is this true or is this all a ruse?
Can someone answer this? Please? Are they rebuilding it? I thought the temple at the mount is preventing the third temples rebuild?
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,503
2,336
43
Helena
✟207,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
I would refer you to Matthew Henry's commentary on Daniel 12. Daniel 12 Bible Commentary - Matthew Henry (complete)

As soon as I read that it's a preterist viewpoint I had to discard it, that's what happens when you don't believe a literal interpretation can happen, you start looking for an event that "kind of" fits the description and just consider scripture to be embellishing and exaggerating details. The abomination of desolation CANNOT be referring to Antiochus because Antiochus was 200 years before Jesus was born, and Jesus told His disciples to watch for the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel. That is, it was a FUTURE EVENT from the time of the ministry of Jesus Christ, and Antiochus was in the past.

Just like people claiming that Revelation was about 70 AD and Nero as the Antichrist. Revelation was written over 20 years later and was prophetic in nature. Preterism doesn't hold water.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Running2win
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,503
2,336
43
Helena
✟207,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Can someone answer this? Please? Are they rebuilding it? I thought the temple at the mount is preventing the third temples rebuild?

They have plans to. But as far as I know they have not started rebuilding yet. They have an altar that can be disassembled and reassembled on site, they've begun minting half shekel coins with the faces of Cyrus the Great and Donald Trump on their face and Solomon's temple on the reverse, and they're trying to find a way to get red heffers to be raised in Israel.

They've been emboldened by Donald Trump relocating the American Embassy to Jerusalem.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
As soon as I read that it's a preterist viewpoint I had to discard it, that's what happens when you don't believe a literal interpretation can happen, you start looking for an event that "kind of" fits the description and just consider scripture to be embellishing and exaggerating details. The abomination of desolation CANNOT be referring to Antiochus because Antiochus was 200 years before Jesus was born, and Jesus told His disciples to watch for the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel. That is, it was a FUTURE EVENT from the time of the ministry of Jesus Christ, and Antiochus was in the past.

Just like people claiming that Revelation was about 70 AD and Nero as the Antichrist. Revelation was written over 20 years later and was prophetic in nature. Preterism doesn't hold water.
Discarding any view without studying it is absurd. Matthew Henry is one of history's great theologians and is worth reading even if you disagree.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: mkgal1
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JacksBratt

Searching for Truth
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
16,282
6,485
62
✟570,686.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Jesus put an end to animal sacrifice with his own blood. So it is bogus if it exists. And another nail in their coffin.
The Jewish people don't believe that Jesus was the messiah. Therefore, they are still under the impression that these sacrifices are legit...

If it is not happening now.. it will be happening soon...when the temple is rebuilt.
 
Upvote 0