Futurist Only So wait.. there's a dedicated altar and ritual sacrifices being performed again NOW?

Dave L

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The Jewish people don't believe that Jesus was the messiah. Therefore, they are still under the impression that these sacrifices are legit...

If it is not happening now.. it will be happening soon...when the temple is rebuilt.
Regardless, those familiar with Christianity are committing an unforgivable sin officially rejecting Christ. As is the case for people considered Christian who would do this in a supposed Millennial setting. Some eschatologies have damnation built into them
 
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JacksBratt

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In the video below Jacob Rothschild explains how his family created the modern State of Israel. Never during the video does Rothschild give the credit to God.



What do the following passages of scripture reveal about "antichrist"?

Romans 2:28-29, 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11, Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9, Revelation 11:8 ?


Do any of those passages refer to Jacob Rothschild?

.
So, you think that due to the Rothschild's action.. it was not God's will..

In history God has used many ungodly and non believers to do what He needs done.

The Rothschild's may have done the work.. But.. they were the hand of God.

God said that He would gather His people back together... the tools He used are not important.

Check this:

king Cyrus
In the year 539 BCE, after uniting the Persian and Median kingdoms under his rule, king Cyrus subdued the Babylonian Empire. In 538 BCE King Cyrus made a public declaration granting the Jews the right to return to Judah and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.
 
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JacksBratt

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Those practicing it now or planning to have already committed an unforgivable sin Hebrews 6:ff
Well, Dave.. that may be.. but, according to scripture... 144,000 of these so called blasphemers will be converted and saved.

It's well known that the Jews do not accept Christ and are still waiting for their messiah... That's not news.
 
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JacksBratt

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You talkin about this article in 2018?

Yes, but no Temple. The peace deal with UAE (and most likely other Arab states to come), along with Turkey wanting a Caliphate and making Churches into Mosques, is all very interesting and preparing the way for what is to come this decade, IMO. :)



Palestinians to protest Friday after Jews sacrifice lambs near Temple Mount
Safe to say that the end of this age is not far off.

Christ said that this generation would not pass away.. well... it's been 72 years......
 
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JacksBratt

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Which Jerusalem?

Is it the one in Revelation 3:12, or the one in Revelation 11:8?


.
There's two?
Hmm... maybe the one where Trump just moved the US embassy.... I'd go with that one.
 
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JacksBratt

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They are antichrist who reject Christ and the cross-work. This is all part of the end-time delusion. John deems anyone who denies “Jesus is the Christ (or Messiah)” as a liar” and an “antichrist.” This includes every single Jew and Gentile who rebels against God’s only provision for sin. There are no special exceptions or imaginary 3rd group of humans, as Dispies pretend. In 1 John 3:10 he shows that mankind is divided into two camps. One is called “the children of God” and the other is called “the children of the devil.”
Yep.. but 144,000 of them will still be converted....
 
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BNR32FAN

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I've been unaware since this wasn't something in the news for me but even on these forums I see that there was an altar, meant to be able to be taken apart and reassembled on the temple mount, and that the Sanhedrin have been performing animal sacrifices since 2019?

Is this true or is this all a ruse?

The Jews never stopped sacrifices because they don’t believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
 
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JacksBratt

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Regardless, those familiar with Christianity are committing an unforgivable sin officially rejecting Christ. As is the case for people considered Christian who would do this in a supposed Millennial setting. Some eschatologies have damnation built into them
Well, that's your view..

The bible states that 144,000 of them will be converted.. So.. it must not be the unforgivable sin...
 
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Dave L

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Well, that's your view..

The bible states that 144,000 of them will be converted.. So.. it must not be the unforgivable sin...
Any potential Christian who returns to the animal sacrificed is damned forever. Hebrews 6
 
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Dave L

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Well, Dave.. that may be.. but, according to scripture... 144,000 of these so called blasphemers will be converted and saved.

It's well known that the Jews do not accept Christ and are still waiting for their messiah... That's not news.
The Church is Israel. Not the apostate Jews.
 
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Running2win

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Running2win

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Any potential Christian who returns to the animal sacrificed is damned forever. Hebrews 6
Didn't Paul do this in Acts 21, with James' blessing?

17After we arrived in Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18And the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22“What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23“Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law. 25“But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.” 26Then Paul took the men, and the next day, purifying himself along with them, went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.
 
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Running2win

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The Church is Israel. Not the apostate Jews.

Yes, the Church is a type of spiritual Israel-and all the saved from all generations are true believers, but there IS a State called Israel now, made up of Jews. You are either a Jew or Gentile of the flesh , that is why the lineage was kept in our Bibles, to show Jesus is of the correct lineage- a Jew. This is the distinction you are missing.

That is how the OT prophecies will be fulfilled. National Israel will be saved one day, and God has been working with them bringing them back into the land. The last phase of Gods program is about to happen before our very eyes!:cool:
 
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BABerean2

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There's two?
Hmm... maybe the one where Trump just moved the US embassy.... I'd go with that one.


Yours is found below.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.



Mine is in the next verse.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


.
 
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JacksBratt

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Any potential Christian who returns to the animal sacrificed is damned forever. Hebrews 6
Well, since every human is a "potential Christian".. this is questionable.

Either way.... 144,000 of these Jewish people... will be converted and come to believe in Christ being their messiah.

So, it is entirely possible that you are incorrect as this being the "unpardonable sin"

From what I understand the unforgivable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. I don't think that, incorrectly doing live sacrifices is going to be the same.
 
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JacksBratt

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The Church is Israel. Not the apostate Jews.
The church is anyone saved by the blood of Christ and who is a child of God...

From the time of Christ, until His return.. there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile.
 
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lsume

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I've been unaware since this wasn't something in the news for me but even on these forums I see that there was an altar, meant to be able to be taken apart and reassembled on the temple mount, and that the Sanhedrin have been performing animal sacrifices since 2019?

Is this true or is this all a ruse?
There supposedly hasn’t been a Sanhedrin for a long time. I recall coming across another rumor regarding the Sanhedrin and an agreement reached with a representative of the Muslim nation. I highly doubt the rumor.
 
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JacksBratt

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Yes, they are said to be the first fruits, not the last fruits. I believe they were the early church.
You may believe that they were the early church...

However, I believe that they will be 144,000 non messianic Jews.. who, during the Great Tribulation, convert to believe in Christ as the messiah. They flee to Petra and are protected there so that they, along with the very few "Gentiles" that accept Christ and live through the GT.... will live to populate the earth during the millennial reign of Christ.
 
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JacksBratt

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The temple is destroyed forever. It is no longer needed
You are correct. It was destroyed and we don't need it.

However, those Jews who do not believe in Christ as the messiah.. .will build another one and the anti Christ will, at the 3.5 year mark.. go into the Holy of Holys and desecrate it... Thus breaking the 7 year deal that he made with the people of Israel.

They have already made the implements that they need. They have the Red heifer without blemish. And they now know that the temple stood in the "City of David" south of the "Temple Mount" where the dome sits.... So, they can build their temple and not conflict with the sacred dome.
They also have all the Levitical priests and it is presumed that they also have the ark of the covenant.

Never underestimate the secrecy of the Jewish people, their ability and their knowledge and drive to do things thought to be impossible.
 
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Dave L

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Well, since every human is a "potential Christian".. this is questionable.

Either way.... 144,000 of these Jewish people... will be converted and come to believe in Christ being their messiah.

So, it is entirely possible that you are incorrect as this being the "unpardonable sin"

From what I understand the unforgivable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. I don't think that, incorrectly doing live sacrifices is going to be the same.
You might be better off if you spend some time with this.


144,000
The community of the “redeemed” in 7:3–8 is the same as in 14:1–4 because of the verbal parallels and ideas observed above. In 14:3–4, the 144,000 are those “who had been purchased from the earth” and who “have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God.” And there is a parallel between 14:4 and 5:9b which is so close that the groups mentioned as “purchased” in both are probably identical (5:9b: the lamb purchased “for God … men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation”). This would mean that the 144,000 in 14:1–3 are not some small remnant of ethnic Israelites but another way of speaking of the larger remnant of humanity living during the church age whom Christ has redeemed from throughout the world. If this identification is correct, then the 144,000 in 7:3–8 must also represent the same redeemed remnant from all over the earth. In this case, 7:9 would interpret the group of 7:3–8 as those who are “from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues” (see further on 7:9). This is virtually the same phrase as that in 5:9b, both being based on the formulas of Daniel 3–7. This group is numbered as 144,000 to emphasize figuratively that this is a picture of the church in its entirety, not in part, which has been redeemed, as the vision of the multitude in 7:9–17 bears out (on the identity of the 144,000 see further on vv. 4–8 below).

That this is the case is apparent from the following reasons, among other considerations

Who are the one hundred and forty-four thousand? They are unlikely to be literal Israelites living at the very end of history during a severe tribulation, nor are they literal Israelites living during the desecration of Israel’s second temple in the first century, for in either case God’s protection would apply only to ethnic Jews—and a limited number of them—rather than to His people redeemed from every nation, including Jewish believers in Jesus. Such a suggestion would be alien to the teaching of the NT (read Galatians, for instance).

A better understanding comes from the context. In 5:9, the Lamb is said to have purchased with His blood “men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.” In 14:3–4, the 144,000 are said to have been purchased “from the earth” and purchased “from among men.” The almost identical language suggests that the two are the same group—the church of all ages. This would explain why, immediately after the vision of the sealing, John sees a great multitude of people from every nation and tribe and people and tongue (7:9). As we will see, this is a picture interpreting the number which has been heard in 7:4–8, thus representing those who have been sealed. As noted above, all Satan’s followers bear his mark or name, and all the Lamb’s followers must bear the Lamb’s mark or name—hence, all believers in Christ throughout the ages are sealed and must be included in the one hundred and forty-four thousand.

But why speak of a specific number? In 21:13–14, the twelve tribes and the twelve apostles together form the foundational structure of the new Jerusalem. Multiplying twelve by twelve equals one hundred and forty-four, representing the entire people of God through the ages. Multiplying that figure by one thousand reinforces the notion of completeness.

In the list of tribes recorded in these verses, it is striking that Judah is mentioned first. This emphasizes Christ’s descent from Judah (see 5:5), as prophesied in Gen. 49:8–10 and elsewhere in the OT where a descendent of David (and thus of Judah) is prophesied to arise as Messiah in the latter days (Ezek. 34:23; 37:24–26; Ps. 16:8–11; together with Acts 2:25–28). Therefore, this is a continuation of 5:5, where Jesus is identified as the fulfillment of the promised leader from Judah. Furthermore, the priority of Judah is appropriate because Gen. 49:10 predicts that the coming leader of Judah will bring about “the obedience of the peoples.” In this respect, the LXX of Gen. 49:10 reads, “he is the expectation of nations,” and Paul alludes to Gen. 49:10 in Rom. 1:5 by referring to “the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles,” which has been accomplished by Christ, the “descendant of David according to the flesh” (Rom. 1:3; cf. 16:26). Therefore, the tribe of Judah is mentioned first because the Messiah from Judah is the king who represents Israel, and through its new king Judah has become the door of blessing to the nations (so 5:5, 9). Accordingly, a kingly descendant from David would be a natural choice to provide entry for the nations into the blessings of Israel.

It is clear that one of the names written on Gentile Christians, in addition to those of God and Christ, is “the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem” (3:12). Since the name of the “new Jerusalem” is equated with Christ’s “new name” in Rev. 3:12, it is likely that Christians can be identified with the “new Jerusalem,” since they are identified with Christ; they are thus the true Israel. In the same way, Isa. 49:3, in relation to Isa. 53:10 and Gal. 3:16, affirms the Messiah as the true Israel. Jesus as the messianic “seed” of Israel (Gal. 3:16) represents all believers, so that they are also part of the Israelite “seed” (Gal. 3:29). However, this name is not written on those “who say that they are Jews, and are not” true Jews (Rev. 3:9), since they reject Christ. The name of “the new Jerusalem” applied to the church of Philadelphia is closely linked conceptually to the 144,000 from every tribe of the sons of Israel.

Christians are thus here portrayed as the true Israel, as also in 1:6 and 5:10 (applying Exod. 19:6); 5:9 (applying Dan. 7:18, 22); 2:17 and 3:12 (applying Isa. 62:2 and 65:15); 3:9 (applying Isa. 49:23 and 60:14); and in the picture of the new Jerusalem in chs. 21–22 (applying Ezekiel 40–48). In fact, a series of prophecies about Israel’s restoration is cited as fulfilled in those who believe “from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues” in 7:9, 15–17 (on which see below). This is consistent with the identification elsewhere in the NT of the church (composed of Jews and Gentiles) as fulfilling predictions of Israel’s restoration (so Rom. 9:24–26; 10:12–13; 2 Cor. 5:17; 6:2, 16–18) and being called true “Jews” (Rom. 2:28–29), “Israel” (Rom. 9:6; Gal. 6:15–16), true “circumcision” (Phil. 3:3), “the twelve tribes” (cf. Jas. 1:1), or dispersed Israelites (1 Pet. 1:1; 2:9). In fact, including Gentiles as part of true end-time Israel was prophesied in the OT (so Psalm 87; Isa. 19:18–25, especially v. 18; 56:1–8; Ezek. 47:21–23; Zech. 2:11; 9:7).

Beale, G. K., & Campbell, D. H. (2015). Revelation: A Shorter Commentary (pp. 149–150). Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
 
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