LDS Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham is False

[Leaf473]

Jesus reminded the ruler LOVING one's neighbor also included keeping the ten commandments, and even more it included being charitable or showing genuine LOVE and concern for one's neighbor.

well, it's not just the two commandments, then, it's the two commandments plus the ten commandments.
are there any other commandments LDS people teach must be kept to be entitled to eternal life?

 

[He is the way]

well, it's not just the two commandments, then, it's the two commandments plus the ten commandments.
are there any other commandments LDS people teach must be kept to be entitled to eternal life?

I think it should be obvious that anything against LOVING God and LOVING their neighbor would be breaking the commandments of LOVE. For instance can a person LOVE their neighbor and still bear false witness against them? That being said there are commandments given for the benefit of man such as resting on the Sabbath and staying healthy by watching what they eat and drink.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I think it should be obvious that anything against LOVING God and LOVING their neighbor would be breaking the commandments of LOVE. For instance can a person LOVE their neighbor and still bear false witness against them? That being said there are commandments given for the benefit of man such as resting on the Sabbath and staying healthy by watching what they eat and drink.

Interesting. I remember Jesus telling his disciples not to worry about what they eat and drink.

Luke 12:22-23
22Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes

I think Jesus was more concerned about the kingdom of God than whether or not one should drink coffee.

 

[mmksparbud]

Interesting. I remember Jesus telling his disciples not to worry about what they eat and drink.

Luke 12:22-23
22Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes

I think Jesus was more concerned about the kingdom of God than whether or not one should drink coffee.

I'm sorry---but I believe God is very much interested in what we eat and drink and gave much info about what is best for us. He wants us living healthy, happy lives and as long as possible. We can be of greater service to the Lord in health, than in sickness. Jesus is saying we are not to worry about things. Eat, drink, live all to the honor of God.
1Co_10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

God will provide. But we are not to be careless about our health. God made us, He knows what is best for us. However, this has nothing to do with the Book of Abraham. Just another diversion from the topic.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I'm sorry---but I believe God is very much interested in what we eat and drink and gave much info about what is best for us. He wants us living healthy, happy lives and as long as possible. We can be of greater service to the Lord in health, than in sickness. Jesus is saying we are not to worry about things. Eat, drink, live all to the honor of God.
1Co_10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

God will provide. But we are not to be careless about our health. God made us, He knows what is best for us. However, this has nothing to do with the Book of Abraham. Just another diversion from the topic.

Please re-read my posts last line. That's where the use of "more concerned" is key. There are no "commandments" for specific food and drink restrictions similar to the lds "Word of Wisdom" that restricts certain foods/beverages, including the referenced coffee. What do you think Jesus is more concerned with - his kingdom or whether or not one drinks coffee?

 

[He is the way]

Interesting. I remember Jesus telling his disciples not to worry about what they eat and drink.

Luke 12:22-23
22Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes

I think Jesus was more concerned about the kingdom of God than whether or not one should drink coffee.

However Jesus did say:
(New Testament | John 6:53 - 55)

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Therefore there is some importance in what we eat and drink. Should we drink poison? Joseph Smith was forced to drink poison. I believe that if we are forced to sin it will not be held against us. There are many laws of health in Leviticus that I believe were for the benefit of man. As for John the Baptist it was said:
(New Testament | Luke 1:15)

15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

This is the vow of the Nazarite:

(Old Testament | Numbers 6:1 - 8)

1 AND the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD:
3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.
5 All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
6 All the days that he separateth himself unto the LORD he shall come at no dead body.
7 He shall not make himself unclean for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister, when they die: because the consecration of his God is upon his head.
8 All the days of his separation he is holy unto the LORD.

The word of wisdom was not given as a law when it was first given.

 

[mmksparbud]

Please re-read my posts last line. That's where the use of "more concerned" is key. There are no "commandments" for specific food and drink restrictions similar to the lds "Word of Wisdom" that restricts certain foods/beverages, including the referenced coffee. What do you think Jesus is more concerned with - his kingdom or whether or not one drinks coffee?

Of course, salvation is not about food---but I am SDA and we do place a great deal of importance on being the healthiest we can be. And we do very strongly believe that God wants us to drink, eat to health. But, like I said---that is way off topic. And there have been whole threads on just about that topic, and I've been on most of them. I will say no more about it so we can get back to the topic. LDS are very good about sidetracking to other topics, esp,. when they can't prove their point, which is often. I should have let it pass.

 

[BigDaddy4]

However Jesus did say:
(New Testament | John 6:53 - 55)

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Therefore there is some importance in what we eat and drink. Should we drink poison? Joseph Smith was forced to drink poison. I believe that if we are forced to sin it will not be held against us. There are many laws of health in Leviticus that I believe were for the benefit of man.

Wow. Context is king and you have none. Jesus was clearly NOT talking about every day food and drink. Leviticus is OT. Are you an OT Jew? Do you follow all 613 OT commandments? No? Foolish argument then.

As for John the Baptist it was said:
(New Testament | Luke 1:15)

15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

He also ate locusts. Do you? How about another "not applicable" from you.

This is the vow of the Nazarite:

(Old Testament | Numbers 6:1 - 8)

1 AND the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD:
3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.
5 All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
6 All the days that he separateth himself unto the LORD he shall come at no dead body.
7 He shall not make himself unclean for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister, when they die: because the consecration of his God is upon his head.
8 All the days of his separation he is holy unto the LORD.

And yet another "not applicable". Why do you revert to the OT to try to make your case? You are not a Nazarite are you?

The word of wisdom was not given as a law when it was first given.

Then God changed his mind? I doubt it. Rather, JS pretended to change it into a "law" in God's name. Another strike against your false prophet.

 

[He is the way]

Wow. Context is king and you have none. Jesus was clearly NOT talking about every day food and drink. Leviticus is OT. Are you an OT Jew? Do you follow all 613 OT commandments? No? Foolish argument then.

He also ate locusts. Do you? How about another "not applicable" from you.

And yet another "not applicable". Why do you revert to the OT to try to make your case? You are not a Nazarite are you?

Then God changed his mind? I doubt it. Rather, JS pretended to change it into a "law" in God's name. Another strike against your false prophet.

The Old Testament is indeed a part of the Bible and the two greatest commandments, according to Jesus Christ, are both there:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 6:5)

5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

(Old Testament | Leviticus 19:18)

18 ¶ Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Jesus did not come to destroy the law or the prophets. He fulfilled the law of sacrifice. He was the sacrifice, He was the sacrificial Lamb of God to take upon Himself the sins of the world.

Yes I do eat locusts in a round about way, fish eat locusts and I eat fish. I also eat honey. I am not a Nazarite, but Jesus did refuse the vinegar which they gave to Him while He was on the cross. Joseph Smith did not make the word of wisdom a law either. Neither did you respond to this:

"I think it should be obvious that anything against LOVING God and LOVING their neighbor would be breaking the commandments of LOVE. For instance can a person LOVE their neighbor and still bear false witness against them?"

 

[mmksparbud]

The Old Testament is indeed a part of the Bible and the two greatest commandments, according to Jesus Christ, are both there:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 6:5)

5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

(Old Testament | Leviticus 19:18)

18 ¶ Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Jesus did not come to destroy the law or the prophets. He fulfilled the law of sacrifice. He was the sacrifice, He was the sacrificial Lamb of God to take upon Himself the sins of the world.

Yes I do eat locusts in a round about way, fish eat locusts and I eat fish. I also eat honey. I am not a Nazarite, but Jesus did refuse the vinegar which they gave to Him while He was on the cross. Joseph Smith did not make the word of wisdom a law either. Neither did you respond to this:

"I think it should be obvious that anything against LOVING God and LOVING their neighbor would be breaking the commandments of LOVE. For instance can a person LOVE their neighbor and still bear false witness against them?"

Which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

 

[Leaf473]

I think it should be obvious that anything against LOVING God and LOVING their neighbor would be breaking the commandments of LOVE. For instance can a person LOVE their neighbor and still bear false witness against them? That being said there are commandments given for the benefit of man such as resting on the Sabbath and staying healthy by watching what they eat and drink.

I hear what you're saying.

I think, then, that it's a matter of rigidity or how highly defined a person or groups approach is to following the commandments to love God and people.

for example, some Jewish communities write volumes on a particular commandment such as what is allowable on the Sabbath.
those who don't follow the strict guidelines are removed from the community.

there is no obvious reason that I can see that drinking whole milk shows that you love God, while eating bacon shows a lack of love for God.

similarly, how does not mixing linen and wool show love for God?

in the same vein, I hear that there is special underwear that many LDS wear.
for LDS people, does this fit with loving God?
if so, how?

looking at the LDS community from the outside, it appears to be a group that has many rules which many members put great effort into keeping.

but, if it turns out that being LDS simply means love God and love people in the way that the spirit leads you in the moment, then I am fully LDS right now.

 

[Leaf473]

Interesting. I remember Jesus telling his disciples not to worry about what they eat and drink.

Luke 12:22-23
22Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes

I think Jesus was more concerned about the kingdom of God than whether or not one should drink coffee.

I was thinking something similar, too.

Jesus talked about nothing going into your mouth will defile you, it's the stuff that comes out of your heart that's the issue.

imo, Jesus wasn't in favor of following a rigid set of rules.
he was more in favor of considering the spirit behind the rules.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The Old Testament is indeed a part of the Bible and the two greatest commandments, according to Jesus Christ, are both there:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 6:5)

5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

(Old Testament | Leviticus 19:18)

18 ¶ Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Jesus did not come to destroy the law or the prophets. He fulfilled the law of sacrifice. He was the sacrifice, He was the sacrificial Lamb of God to take upon Himself the sins of the world.

I think you don't understand what you are writing at times. The OT food restrictions (which is what the conversation is about) applied only to the Israelites and are done away with ("fulfilled the law") the coming of Jesus and his new covenant.

Yes I do eat locusts in a round about way, fish eat locusts and I eat fish. I also eat honey. I am not a Nazarite, but Jesus did refuse the vinegar which they gave to Him while He was on the cross. Joseph Smith did not make the word of wisdom a law either.

That's a rather lame correlation. I highly doubt the fish you eat feed on locusts, unless you import your fish from other parts of the world.

North America is currently the only continent besides Antarctica without a native locust species. The Rocky Mountain locust was formerly one of the most significant insect pests there, but it became extinct in 1902. In the 1930s, during the Dust Bowl, a second species of North American locust, the High Plains locust (Dissosteira longipennis) reached plague proportions in the American Midwest. Today, the High Plains locust is a rare species, leaving North America with no regularly swarming locusts.
Locust - Wikipedia

Neither did you respond to this:

"I think it should be obvious that anything against LOVING God and LOVING their neighbor would be breaking the commandments of LOVE. For instance can a person LOVE their neighbor and still bear false witness against them?"

I highlighted the part of your quote I responded to. Your "LOVE" statements are old and stale, and have been dealt with numerous times in the past by several posters.

 

[He is the way]

Which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

I was answering the poster, just like you and your post is also off topic.

 

[He is the way]

I hear what you're saying.

I think, then, that it's a matter of rigidity or how highly defined a person or groups approach is to following the commandments to love God and people.

for example, some Jewish communities write volumes on a particular commandment such as what is allowable on the Sabbath.
those who don't follow the strict guidelines are removed from the community.

there is no obvious reason that I can see that drinking whole milk shows that you love God, while eating bacon shows a lack of love for God.

similarly, how does not mixing linen and wool show love for God?

in the same vein, I hear that there is special underwear that many LDS wear.
for LDS people, does this fit with loving God?
if so, how?

looking at the LDS community from the outside, it appears to be a group that has many rules which many members put great effort into keeping.

but, if it turns out that being LDS simply means love God and love people in the way that the spirit leads you in the moment, then I am fully LDS right now.

Thank you, I know that Jesus Christ wants us to keep the commandments of LOVE and He also wants us to keep the ordinances of the gospel such as baptism and partaking of the bread and water in remembrance of Him. We also believe in having charity and helping those in need as much as we can. Like you said we do these things by following the spirit.

 

[He is the way]

I think you don't understand what you are writing at times. The OT food restrictions (which is what the conversation is about) applied only to the Israelites and are done away with ("fulfilled the law") the coming of Jesus and his new covenant.

That's a rather lame correlation. I highly doubt the fish you eat feed on locusts, unless you import your fish from other parts of the world.

North America is currently the only continent besides Antarctica without a native locust species. The Rocky Mountain locust was formerly one of the most significant insect pests there, but it became extinct in 1902. In the 1930s, during the Dust Bowl, a second species of North American locust, the High Plains locust (Dissosteira longipennis) reached plague proportions in the American Midwest. Today, the High Plains locust is a rare species, leaving North America with no regularly swarming locusts.
Locust - Wikipedia

I highlighted the part of your quote I responded to. Your "LOVE" statements are old and stale, and have been dealt with numerous times in the past by several posters.

The fact that God is LOVE will never be old or stale nor will the gospel of LOVE change. It will always be that way:

(New Testament | John 13:34 - 35)

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

"Topping the list for best insect based fish feed is grasshoppers or locusts of any kind. In feeding trials, the fish fed up to 50 percent of the grasshopper feed showed better growth and development than those eating the traditional fish based meal."

From: Grasshoppers make great fish feed; Could replace wild fish as feed source | Alaska Fish Radio.

I do eat Alaskan fish.

 

[Leaf473]

Thank you, I know that Jesus Christ wants us to keep the commandments of LOVE and He also wants us to keep the ordinances of the gospel such as baptism and partaking of the bread and water in remembrance of Him. We also believe in having charity and helping those in need as much as we can. Like you said we do these things by following the spirit.

if an LDS doesn't keep the ordinances of the Gospel as the church teaches them, are they removed from the community?

similarly, I heard that if an LDS is known to drink caffeinated stuff, they will lose their Temple recommend.
did I hear correctly?

 

[He is the way]

if an LDS doesn't keep the ordinances of the Gospel as the church teaches them, are they removed from the community?

similarly, I heard that if an LDS is known to drink caffeinated stuff, they will lose their Temple recommend.
did I hear correctly?

People are not removed from the community in The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. That may be true of a break off church. In order to get a temple recommend a person should keep the word of wisdom.

 

[Leaf473]

People are not removed from the community in The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. That may be true of a break off church. In order to get a temple recommend a person should keep the word of wisdom.

Yesterday I got a semi-expected call from the authorities on the other side of the country where my mom lives,
so I flew out overnight to help settle her affairs and probably put her in a nursing home.
I hope to resume our discussion in early September.
Peace be with you!

 

[He is the way]

Yesterday I got a semi-expected call from the authorities on the other side of the country where my mom lives,
so I flew out overnight to help settle her affairs and probably put her in a nursing home.
I hope to resume our discussion in early September.
Peace be with you!

I hope that everything goes as well as possible. Sorry about your mom.