LDS Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham is False

[Dale]

If you're not familiar with the Book of Abraham, it is part of the Pearl of Great Price, which became scripture in the Church of the Latter Day Saints in 1880. Joseph Smith claimed to have translated it from Egyptian papyri using the same Divine gift of translation that he used on the Book of Mormon. He first saw the papyri in 1835 and published his translation of the Book of Abraham, with illustrations, known as facsimiles, in 1842.

The papyrus fragments it was based on were lost for many years, making critical examination very difficult. Egyptologists did recognize that the illustrations were reworkings of standard motifs from the Egyptian past. Then the original papyri were discovered in a vault at the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art in 1966.

Joseph Smith claimed that the papyri were handwritten by Abraham around 2000 BC, almost four thousand years earlier. Modern dating of the papyri found something completely different: "They are approximately 1500 to 2000 years too late, dating from anywhere between 500 B.C. (John A. Wilson, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Summer 1968, p. 70.) and 60 A.D." They could be from the time of Christ, but are not from the time of Abraham.

In Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham, Abraham recounts that he nearly became a human sacrifice at the hands of a pagan priest. Egyptologists say the document is simply the Book of Breathing, something buried with a mummy to aid them in the afterlife. The actual translation presents a serious problem for those who believe in the religious significance of the Book of Abraham.

Joseph Smith's translation opens:
“In the Land of the Chaldeans, at the residence of my father, I, Abraham, saw that it was needful for me to obtain another place of residence.” (BoA 1:1).

Actual translation:
“Osiris shall be conveyed into the Great Pool of Khons — and likewise Osiris Hor, justified, born to Tikhebyt, justified — after his arms have been placed on his heart and the Breathing permit (which [Isis] made and has writing on its inside and outside) has been wrapped in royal linen and placed under his left arm near his heart; the rest of the mummy-bandages should be wrapped over it. The man for whom this book was copied will breath forever and ever as the bas of the gods do.”

I am quoting J. Warner at website called Cold Case Christianity. As Warner concludes:
"Despite the efforts of Mormons to restore the reliability of the Book of Abraham, it appears to be a demonstrably false book, errantly translated and misrepresented as scripture by the LDS Church. It undermines the claims of Joseph Smith related to other allegedly divinely inspired translations, including the Book of Mormon."


Link
How the Book of Abraham Exposes the False Nature of Mormonism | Cold Case Christianity

 

[Ironhold]

I'll see your link and raise you one of mine:

Mormon Answers, LDS FAQ: The Truth About the Book of Abraham, Part 1

The vast majority of the papyrus Joseph Smith was known to have in his possession were lost over time, and the only thing tying what survives to what Joseph translated is a single image.

Lindsay goes into far more detail, but the gist of it all is that the situation's murkier than most critics of the church want to be bothered with.

 

[BobRyan]

I'll see your link and raise you one of mine:

Mormon Answers, LDS FAQ: The Truth About the Book of Abraham, Part 1

The vast majority of the papyrus Joseph Smith was known to have in his possession were lost over time, and the only thing tying what survives to what Joseph translated is a single image.

Lindsay goes into far more detail, but the gist of it all is that the situation's murkier than most critics of the church want to be bothered with.

It is pretty convenient how all the documents Smith claims to "translate" get lost .. and yet that act of "translating" is claimed as super important for Mormons. how is it they keep losing the documents they claim are so important?

 

[He is the way]

It is pretty convenient how all the documents Smith claims to "translate" get lost .. and yet that act of "translating" is claimed as super important for Mormons. how is it they keep losing the documents they claim are so important?

You may think it convenient that much of the papyrus from the Book of Abraham was burned by fire in a museum in Chicago, never the less it was. Apparently there were five scrolls that Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Abraham. And although we have some of the papyrus (of a living man on a table), it still does not prove the Book of Abraham is wrong.

 

[Ironhold]

You may think it convenient that much of the papyrus from the Book of Abraham was burned by fire in a museum in Chicago, never the less it was. Apparently there were five scrolls that Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Abraham. And although we have some of the papyrus (of a living man on a table), it still does not prove the Book of Abraham is wrong.

Even before that, at least one account has it that pieces of the papyrus were mounted onto a thicker paper stock, and IIRC not one example of this has survived.

Basically, when Joseph was murdered, things went nuts and the documents were lost.

 

[Dale]

I'll see your link and raise you one of mine:

Mormon Answers, LDS FAQ: The Truth About the Book of Abraham, Part 1

The vast majority of the papyrus Joseph Smith was known to have in his possession were lost over time, and the only thing tying what survives to what Joseph translated is a single image.

Lindsay goes into far more detail, but the gist of it all is that the situation's murkier than most critics of the church want to be bothered with.

I have taken a look at that link but I'm finding it confusing.

In the Bible, we don't see any sign that Abraham knew how to write in Egyptian hieroglyphs.

There is no doubt that the papyri that Joseph Smith "translated" were taken from the pagan tomb of an Egyptian man. It makes perfect sense that the Egyptian would be buried with items reflecting his beliefs about the afterlife. Why would he be buried with something written by a foreigner who didn't believe in any of the Egyptian gods?

 

[Ironhold]

I have taken a look at that link but I'm finding it confusing.

In the Bible, we don't see any sign that Abraham knew how to write in Egyptian hieroglyphs.

There is no doubt that the papyri that Joseph Smith "translated" were taken from the pagan tomb of an Egyptian man. It makes perfect sense that the Egyptian would be buried with items reflecting his beliefs about the afterlife. Why would he be buried with something written by a foreigner who didn't believe in any of the Egyptian gods?

The Book of Abraham talks about Abraham's time in Egypt, including his nearly being offered up as a sacrifice to some of the nation's deities.

 

[Peter1000]

If you're not familiar with the Book of Abraham, it is part of the Pearl of Great Price, which became scripture in the Church of the Latter Day Saints in 1880. Joseph Smith claimed to have translated it from Egyptian papyri using the same Divine gift of translation that he used on the Book of Mormon. He first saw the papyri in 1835 and published his translation of the Book of Abraham, with illustrations, known as facsimiles, in 1842.

The papyrus fragments it was based on were lost for many years, making critical examination very difficult. Egyptologists did recognize that the illustrations were reworkings of standard motifs from the Egyptian past. Then the original papyri were discovered in a vault at the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art in 1966.

Joseph Smith claimed that the papyri were handwritten by Abraham around 2000 BC, almost four thousand years earlier. Modern dating of the papyri found something completely different: "They are approximately 1500 to 2000 years too late, dating from anywhere between 500 B.C. (John A. Wilson, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Summer 1968, p. 70.) and 60 A.D." They could be from the time of Christ, but are not from the time of Abraham.

In Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham, Abraham recounts that he nearly became a human sacrifice at the hands of a pagan priest. Egyptologists say the document is simply the Book of Breathing, something buried with a mummy to aid them in the afterlife. The actual translation presents a serious problem for those who believe in the religious significance of the Book of Abraham.

Joseph Smith's translation opens:
“In the Land of the Chaldeans, at the residence of my father, I, Abraham, saw that it was needful for me to obtain another place of residence.” (BoA 1:1).

Actual translation:
“Osiris shall be conveyed into the Great Pool of Khons — and likewise Osiris Hor, justified, born to Tikhebyt, justified — after his arms have been placed on his heart and the Breathing permit (which [Isis] made and has writing on its inside and outside) has been wrapped in royal linen and placed under his left arm near his heart; the rest of the mummy-bandages should be wrapped over it. The man for whom this book was copied will breath forever and ever as the bas of the gods do.”

I am quoting J. Warner at website called Cold Case Christianity. As Warner concludes:
"Despite the efforts of Mormons to restore the reliability of the Book of Abraham, it appears to be a demonstrably false book, errantly translated and misrepresented as scripture by the LDS Church. It undermines the claims of Joseph Smith related to other allegedly divinely inspired translations, including the Book of Mormon."


Link4
How the Book of Abraham Exposes the False Nature of Mormonism | Cold Case Christianity

A couple of things you got wrong in the story.

First: a few fragments did not get lost. What was lost was 4(?)scrolls that that were full of writing.
Second: a few fragments of these 4 scrolls were found. The fragments they found have been confirmed to be the funeral text of the buried man.
Third: the most part of the scrolls are still lost. The story of Abraham was included in the lost scrolls.

The problem with the reworking of the standard motif, is that there was no standard motif available to JS in his time. He had in his hands the standard motif and nobody knew what it was until into the 1900's when others were found and now there are 50(?) available and JS is a little different than any of the others.

Where did you get the actually translation? If you say they are part of the fragments found in Chicago, then you miss the point completely, because the Abraham story was not contained on the fragments. So they would be a different translation and not the same words. Thanks for confirming that.

Sorry, in the circles that are important, the Book of Abraham has not lost its credibility, thus not having to get it restored.

Keep searching though, but get the right story out there, that helps with your credibility.

 

[Dale]

A couple of things you got wrong in the story.

First: a few fragments did not get lost. What was lost was 4(?)scrolls that that were full of writing.
Second: a few fragments of these 4 scrolls were found. The fragments they found have been confirmed to be the funeral text of the buried man.
Third: the most part of the scrolls are still lost. The story of Abraham was included in the lost scrolls.

The problem with the reworking of the standard motif, is that there was no standard motif available to JS in his time. He had in his hands the standard motif and nobody knew what it was until into the 1900's when others were found and now there are 50(?) available and JS is a little different than any of the others.

Where did you get the actually translation? If you say they are part of the fragments found in Chicago, then you miss the point completely, because the Abraham story was not contained on the fragments. So they would be a different translation and not the same words. Thanks for confirming that.

Sorry, in the circles that are important, the Book of Abraham has not lost its credibility, thus not having to get it restored.

Keep searching though, but get the right story out there, that helps with your credibility.

Peter: "The problem with the reworking of the standard motif, is that there was no standard motif available to JS in his time."

Joseph Smith got the "standard motifs" from the payrus fragments that he saw, and used. These are the papyrus fragments that the LDS church purchased at that time. They are the fragments that were found in New York in 1966. There is no mystery there. Smith partially copied the illustrations but altered them for his own purposes.

 

[mmksparbud]

A couple of things you got wrong in the story.

First: a few fragments did not get lost. What was lost was 4(?)scrolls that that were full of writing.
Second: a few fragments of these 4 scrolls were found. The fragments they found have been confirmed to be the funeral text of the buried man.
Third: the most part of the scrolls are still lost. The story of Abraham was included in the lost scrolls.

The problem with the reworking of the standard motif, is that there was no standard motif available to JS in his time. He had in his hands the standard motif and nobody knew what it was until into the 1900's when others were found and now there are 50(?) available and JS is a little different than any of the others.

Where did you get the actually translation? If you say they are part of the fragments found in Chicago, then you miss the point completely, because the Abraham story was not contained on the fragments. So they would be a different translation and not the same words. Thanks for confirming that.

Sorry, in the circles that are important, the Book of Abraham has not lost its credibility, thus not having to get it restored.

Keep searching though, but get the right story out there, that helps with your credibility.

Refresh my memory---how did the Egyptians mistake Abraham for a corpse---they only mummified the dead.

 

[He is the way]

Refresh my memory---how did the Egyptians mistake Abraham for a corpse---they only mummified the dead.

That was not a dead person on the table.

 

[Dale]

A couple of things you got wrong in the story.

First: a few fragments did not get lost. What was lost was 4(?)scrolls that that were full of writing.
Second: a few fragments of these 4 scrolls were found. The fragments they found have been confirmed to be the funeral text of the buried man.
Third: the most part of the scrolls are still lost. The story of Abraham was included in the lost scrolls.

The problem with the reworking of the standard motif, is that there was no standard motif available to JS in his time. He had in his hands the standard motif and nobody knew what it was until into the 1900's when others were found and now there are 50(?) available and JS is a little different than any of the others.

Where did you get the actually translation? If you say they are part of the fragments found in Chicago, then you miss the point completely, because the Abraham story was not contained on the fragments. So they would be a different translation and not the same words. Thanks for confirming that.

Sorry, in the circles that are important, the Book of Abraham has not lost its credibility, thus not having to get it restored.

Keep searching though, but get the right story out there, that helps with your credibility.

I have found a refutation of the Lost Scroll Theory, the notion that scrolls were burned in the Great Fire of Chicago, on an LDS blog.

"Why it doesn’t work:
1. We have the manuscripts of the Book of Abraham, and both show the Egyptian symbols being translated for each section which match perfectly and in order with the papyrus fragment that was recovered."

"2. The Book of Abraham (Abraham 1:12-14) itself clearly tells us that the facsimiles and Book of Abraham are on the same scroll, so there is no chance of a “lost” scroll."

"3. Due to damage on the scroll used for the Book of Abraham, you can use math to determine the length of the overall scroll upon being unrolled. This study was published in Dialogue, and shows that the Book of Abraham text would need at least least 511cm to fit in the scroll's interior, but at most there would be no more than 56cm missing. There is not enough room to fit even 1/10th of the Book of Abraham text in the missing interior of the scroll, let alone the book as published by Joseph."

Link
https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/blog-abraham-in-1000-words

 

[mmksparbud]

That was not a dead person on the table.

Exactly---so why would they be trying to mummify him?

 

[Dale]

The Book of Abraham talks about Abraham's time in Egypt, including his nearly being offered up as a sacrifice to some of the nation's deities.

Ironhold: "The Book of Abraham talks about Abraham's time in Egypt, including his nearly being offered up as a sacrifice to some of the nation's deities."


Actually, the main story about Abraham doesn't take place in Egypt. I find the story to be completely confused. In Genesis, Abraham is first called Abram and then later God changes his name to Abraham. In Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham he is called Abraham from the beginning.

In Smith's B of A, Abraham is still in Ur when an Egyptian priest tries to offer him up to a confused set of gods. Joseph Smith obviously knows nothing of Babylonian, Phoenician or Egyptian gods. Abraham's father Terah is willing to have an Egyptian priest offer his son up to this confusing conglomeration of gods. We are told nothing of how Abraham was captured (I assume he fought back) for this event. Was he taken unawares and didn't have time to hide? Who knows. We are told that an angel rescued him, although we aren't told how. Personally, after narrowly escaping becoming a human sacrifice, I would have cleared out of town with all good speed. Instead, Abraham calmly gets married and leaves Ur after assembling an entourage. He leaves when he gets around to it. A good fiction writer could have done a much better job of this.

I don't believe there were any Egyptian priests in Ur. I have never heard of the Egyptians offering a human sacrifice. The story doesn't make sense.

When did Abraham learn to write in Egyptian hieroglyphs? Since the main part of the story happens in Ur of the Chaldeans, where Abraham grew up, I would expect him to write it in Babylonian cuneiform.

 

[He is the way]

I have found a refutation of the Lost Scroll Theory, the notion that scrolls were burned in the Great Fire of Chicago, on an LDS blog.

"Why it doesn’t work:
1. We have the manuscripts of the Book of Abraham, and both show the Egyptian symbols being translated for each section which match perfectly and in order with the papyrus fragment that was recovered."

"2. The Book of Abraham (Abraham 1:12-14) itself clearly tells us that the facsimiles and Book of Abraham are on the same scroll, so there is no chance of a “lost” scroll."

"3. Due to damage on the scroll used for the Book of Abraham, you can use math to determine the length of the overall scroll upon being unrolled. This study was published in Dialogue, and shows that the Book of Abraham text would need at least least 511cm to fit in the scroll's interior, but at most there would be no more than 56cm missing. There is not enough room to fit even 1/10th of the Book of Abraham text in the missing interior of the scroll, let alone the book as published by Joseph."

Link
https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/blog-abraham-in-1000-words

The blog mentioned that the Book of Abraham was “written by his own hand, upon papyrus.”

There are two important and peculiar aspects of ancient authorship which must be considered here. One is that according to Egyptian and Hebrew thinking would be that any copy of a book originally written by Abraham would be designated as the very work of his hand no matter how many reproductions were made. The other is that no matter who did the writing originally, it was Abraham who commissioned or directed the work and he would take credit for the actual writing.

I read Abraham 1:12-14 and in my opinion there is nothing there saying that the entire record was on one scroll. It simply mentions:
(Pearl of Great Price | Abraham 1:12)

...the commencement of this record...

And:

(Pearl of Great Price | Abraham 1:14)

...I have given you the fashion of them in the figures at the beginning,...

That does not signify that the entire record was on one scroll.

 

[Dale]

The blog mentioned that the Book of Abraham was “written by his own hand, upon papyrus.”

There are two important and peculiar aspects of ancient authorship which must be considered here. One is that according to Egyptian and Hebrew thinking would be that any copy of a book originally written by Abraham would be designated as the very work of his hand no matter how many reproductions were made. The other is that no matter who did the writing originally, it was Abraham who commissioned or directed the work and he would take credit for the actual writing.

I read Abraham 1:12-14 and in my opinion there is nothing there saying that the entire record was on one scroll. It simply mentions:
(Pearl of Great Price | Abraham 1:12)

...the commencement of this record...

And:

(Pearl of Great Price | Abraham 1:14)

...I have given you the fashion of them in the figures at the beginning,...

That does not signify that the entire record was on one scroll.

HeIsTheWay: "I read Abraham 1:12-14 and in my opinion there is nothing there saying that the entire record was on one scroll."


Verse 12 ends, "... I will refer you to the representation at the commencement of this record."

In other words, the story about pagan priests trying to offer up Abraham goes with the facsimile at the beginning. It goes on to say that the pagan altar is much like a bed, as seen in the facsimile. This is Facsimile No. 1, which is shown at the beginning of the "translated" manuscript. The ancient text, or symbols, that JS translated can't be on a different piece of papyrus, it has to be on the same one as Facsimile No. 1. That papyrus has been recovered, it was found at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in 1966.

Verse 14 begins, "That you may have an understanding of these gods, I have given you the fashion of them in the figures at the beginning ..." In other words, the heads of the pagan gods the priest is devoted to are also shown in Facsimile No. 1. They are shown as ornamental lids for funerary jars. Again, the text that JS "translates" can't be on a separate papyrus scroll, it has to be on the one with the picture, or facsimile, that JS refers to in the translated text.

Here it is for your perusal.

12 And it came to pass that the
priests laid violence upon me, that
they might slay me also, as they did
those virgins upon this altar; and
that you may have a knowledge of
this altar, I will refer you to the rep
resentation at the commencement
of this record.
13 It was made after the form of
a bedstead, such as was had among
the Chaldeans, and it stood be
fore the gods of Elkenah, Libnah,
Mahmackrah, Korash, and also a

god like unto that of Pharaoh, king
of Egypt
14 That you may have an un
derstanding of these gods, I have
given you the fashion of them in
the figures at the beginning, which
manner of figures is called by the
Chaldeans Rahleenos, which
signifies hieroglyphic.

BA 1:12-14

 

[Dale]

Here's a question for Mormons. Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham says that spirits "have no beginning" and also "they shall have no end" because they are "eternal." This is found in the Book of Abraham 3:18.

In Christian theology, the souls of men and women definitely have a beginning. Some Christians assume that the beginning of a soul coincides with birth or conception. Others don't claim to know when it happens but still say that every soul is created by God.

In the Book of Abraham, Joseph Smith disavows this conception completely. Smith's view that souls "have no beginning" sounds like an idea that I would associate with Hinduism or Buddhism. In those religions there is no needs for a creator of souls. Individual souls are assumed to have always existed, the problem is how to end the endless cycle of reincarnation or transmigration.

Is this what most Mormons think about the soul?

BA 3:18

 

[He is the way]

HeIsTheWay: "I read Abraham 1:12-14 and in my opinion there is nothing there saying that the entire record was on one scroll."


Verse 12 ends, "... I will refer you to the representation at the commencement of this record."

In other words, the story about pagan priests trying to offer up Abraham goes with the facsimile at the beginning. It goes on to say that the pagan altar is much like a bed, as seen in the facsimile. This is Facsimile No. 1, which is shown at the beginning of the "translated" manuscript. The ancient text, or symbols, that JS translated can't be on a different piece of papyrus, it has to be on the same one as Facsimile No. 1. That papyrus has been recovered, it was found at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in 1966.

Verse 14 begins, "That you may have an understanding of these gods, I have given you the fashion of them in the figures at the beginning ..." In other words, the heads of the pagan gods the priest is devoted to are also shown in Facsimile No. 1. They are shown as ornamental lids for funerary jars. Again, the text that JS "translates" can't be on a separate papyrus scroll, it has to be on the one with the picture, or facsimile, that JS refers to in the translated text.

Here it is for your perusal.

12 And it came to pass that the
priests laid violence upon me, that
they might slay me also, as they did
those virgins upon this altar; and
that you may have a knowledge of
this altar, I will refer you to the rep
resentation at the commencement
of this record.
13 It was made after the form of
a bedstead, such as was had among
the Chaldeans, and it stood be
fore the gods of Elkenah, Libnah,
Mahmackrah, Korash, and also a

god like unto that of Pharaoh, king
of Egypt
14 That you may have an un
derstanding of these gods, I have
given you the fashion of them in
the figures at the beginning, which
manner of figures is called by the
Chaldeans Rahleenos, which
signifies hieroglyphic.

BA 1:12-14

View attachment 281710

It says beginning, nothing about the end of the record or how long the record was.

In other words, the story about pagan priests trying to offer up Abraham goes with the facsimile at the beginning. It goes on to say that the pagan altar is much like a bed, as seen in the facsimile. This is Facsimile No. 1, which is shown at the beginning of the "translated" manuscript. The ancient text, or symbols, that JS translated can't be on a different piece of papyrus, it has to be on the same one as Facsimile No. 1. That papyrus has been recovered, it was found at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in 1966.

The facsimile you posted is the one out of the Book of Abraham, not the fragmented one from the eleven papyrus fragments found in the metropolitan museum of art in New York.

Joseph Smith Papyri | Wikiwand

 

[He is the way]

Here's a question for Mormons. Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham says that spirits "have no beginning" and also "they shall have no end" because they are "eternal." This is found in the Book of Abraham 3:18.

In Christian theology, the souls of men and women definitely have a beginning. Some Christians assume that the beginning of a soul coincides with birth or conception. Others don't claim to know when it happens but still say that every soul is created by God.

In the Book of Abraham, Joseph Smith disavows this conception completely. Smith's view that souls "have no beginning" sounds like an idea that I would associate with Hinduism or Buddhism. In those religions there is no needs for a creator of souls. Individual souls are assumed to have always existed, the problem is how to end the endless cycle of reincarnation or transmigration.

Is this what most Mormons think about the soul?

View attachment 281711

BA 3:18

Yes we do believe that spirits are eternal. There is also this in the Bible:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:1 - 9)

1 FOR we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

We also know this about the spirit:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 131:7 - 8)

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

 

[Ran77]

In Christian theology, the souls of men and women definitely have a beginning. Some Christians assume that the beginning of a soul coincides with birth or conception. Others don't claim to know when it happens but still say that every soul is created by God.

Are there any Bible verses that confirm this theology?