Was the Last Supper a Seder?

[AbbaLove]

This is your opinion and it doesn't follow logic.

It is not my opinion but rather the Word of Yahweh from the CLV Bible translation and the CJB which you have also quoted.

Harks influence is far from man made tradition

Not so, but rather the influence of the Sadducees and Pharisees that is perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism. Best to say focused on the Word of Yahweh and Yahshua/Yeshua ...

Mark 7:6-8 (CJB)
Yeshua answered them, “Yesha‘yahu was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites — as it is written,

‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far away from me.
7 Their worship of me is useless,
because they teach man-made rules as if they were doctrines.’​

8 “You depart from God’s command and hold onto human tradition.​

​

Are you both blind to the Words of Yahweh or is it that you instead prefer man's religious traditions. Why, do you refuse to accept the following Word of Yahweh ...

Exodus 12:6 (CLV)
6 And it will become a charge of yours until the fourteenth day of this month. They will slay it, every assembly of the congregation of the sons of Israel, between the evening hours.
Exodus 12:8 (CLV)
8 Then they will eat the flesh on this night, roasted with fire, and with unleavened cakes; over bitter herbs shall they eat it.
Exodus 12:10 (CLV)
10 You shall not reserve any of it until the morning. And what is left of it until the morning you shall burn with fire.
Exodus 12:18 (CLV)
18 In the first month on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, you shall eat unleavened cakes until the twenty-first day of the month, in the evening.
​

HARK! is so fixated on the man-made traditions of Rabbinic Judaism' (successors of Phariseeism) that he is blind to the above Exodus scripture (as is ralliann). Typical of man's religious traditions whether in Judaism or in Christianity.

 

[HARK!]

Question:
How many limbs did the Lord endure pierced on the cross?

I surely pray that you aren't slaughtering lambs by bleeding them out through their hooves.

 

[HARK!]

It is not my opinion but rather the Word of Yahweh from the CLV Bible translation and the CJB which you have also quoted.

It your understanding of those translations. I'm still waiting for your explanation of how to prepare a entire lamb, from slaughter to table, in 70 minutes. It doesn't work.

 

[HARK!]

What about this?
Lev 17:2 Speak unto Aaron, and unto his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them; This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, saying,
3 What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp,
4 And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:
5 To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field, even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
6 And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

It was a big debate among the two groups; which mountain?

Yahshua didn't really give a direct answer to the Samaritan woman's straw man.

(CLV) Jn 4:20
Our fathers worship in this mountain, and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where one must worship."

(CLV) Jn 4:21
Jesus is saying to her, "Believe Me, woman, that, coming is an hour when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem shall you be worshiping the Father.

 

[pinacled]

It your understanding of those translations. I'm still waiting for your explanation of how to prepare a entire lamb, from slaughter to table, in 70 minutes. It doesn't work.

There is no need to prepare the entire lamb for the Table.
What's left over is a burnt offering just as is instructed in Torah.

Isaiah 25:6

39 Bible verses about Burnt Offering

 

[pinacled]

I surely pray that you aren't slaughtering lambs by bleeding them out through their hooves.

I was suggesting something on the how to prepare a lamb for pesach other than, "slicing throats" as has been suggested by a certain school of thought.

For readers that have remained vigilant in their studies and walk with The Lord of Host.

Blessings Always

 

[HARK!]

There is no need to prepare the entire lamb for the Table.
What's left over is a burnt offering just as is instructed in Torah.

Isaiah 25:6

39 Bible verses about Burnt Offering

This is what is instructed in the Torah:

(CLV) Ex 12:9
Do not eat any of it underdone or cooked by being cooked in water, but rather roasted with fire, even its head along with its shanks and with its inwards.

We are to roast the lamb whole.

 

[HARK!]

I was suggesting something on the how to prepare a lamb for pesach other than, "slicing throats" as has been suggested by a certain school of thought.

For readers that have remained vigilant in their studies and walk with The Lord of Host.

Blessings Always

It has been suggested by every humane school of thought that I know of.

 

[pinacled]

This is what is instructed in the Torah:

(CLV) Ex 12:9
Do not eat any of it underdone or cooked by being cooked in water, but rather roasted with fire, even its head along with its shanks and with its inwards.

We are to roast the lamb whole.

Yes,
I know.

Yet there is no mention of eating the whole lamb is there.
Nor are any specifics of separating parts that are to be eaten from parts that are to be a burnt offering far as I can see.

Hence my suggestion of the preparation differing from the inhumane school of thought that, "slices throats"

 

[pinacled]

It your understanding of those translations. I'm still waiting for your explanation of how to prepare a entire lamb, from slaughter to table, in 70 minutes. It doesn't work.

Question:
For all readers


How many borders does a door have that is in need of blood?

 

[HARK!]

Hence my suggestion of the preparation differing from the inhumane school of thought that, "slices throats"

Procedure

Slaughtering poultry according to religious rules, Shalom Koboshvili, 1940
The shechita procedure, which must be performed by a shochet, is described in the relevant texts[5] only as severing the wind pipe and food pipe (trachea and esophagus). Nothing is mentioned about veins or arteries. However, in practice, as a very long sharp knife is used, in cattle the soft tissues in the neck are sliced through without the knife touching the spinal cord, in the course of which four major blood vessels, two of which transport oxygenated blood to the brain (the carotid arteries) the other two transporting blood back to the heart (jugular veins) are severed. The vagus nerve is also cut in this operation. With fowl, the same procedure is followed, but a smaller knife is used.

A special knife is used, that is very long; and no undue pressure may be applied to the knife, which must be very sharp.[6][7] The procedure may be performed with the animal either lying on its back (שחיטה מוונחת, shechita munachat) or standing (שחיטה מעומדת, shechita me'umedet).[8] In the case of fowl (with the exception of large fowl like turkey) the bird is held in the non-dominant hand in such a way that the head is pulled back and the neck exposed, while the cut made with the dominant hand.[9]

The procedure is done with the intention of causing a rapid drop in blood pressure in the brain and loss of consciousness, to render the animal insensitive to pain and to exsanguinate in a prompt and precise action.[10][11] It has been suggested that eliminating blood flow through the carotid arteries does not cut blood flow to the brain of a bovine because the brain is also supplied with blood by vertebral arteries,[12] however other authorities note the distinction between severing the carotid versus merely blocking it.[11]

If one did not sever the entirety of both the trachea and esophagus, then an animal may still be considered kosher as long as one severed the majority of the trachea and esophagus (windpipe and food pipe) of a mammal, or the majority of either one of these in the case of birds.[6] The cut must be incised with a back-and-forth motion without violating one of the five major prohibited techniques[13] (see below), or various other detailed rules.

Forbidden techniques

• Shehiyah (שהייה; delay or pausing) - Pausing during the incision and then starting to cut again makes the animal's flesh unkosher.[14] The knife must be moved across the neck in an uninterrupted motion until the trachea and esophagus are sufficiently severed to avoid this.[6] There is some disagreement among legal sources as to the exact length of time needed to constitute shehiyah, but today the normative practice is to disqualify a kosher cut as a result of any length of pausing.[15]
• Derasah (דרסה; pressing/chopping) - The knife must be drawn across the throat by a back and forth movement, not by chopping, hacking, or pressing without moving the knife back and forth.[16] There are those[17] who assert that it is forbidden to have the animal in an upright position during shechita due to the prohibition of derasah. They maintain that the animal must be on its back or lying on its side, and some also allow for the animal to be suspended upside down.[18] However, the Rambam explicitly permits upright slaughter,[19] and the Orthodox Union as well as all other major kosher certifiers in the United States accept upright slaughter.[20]
• Haladah (חלדה; covering, digging, or burying) - The knife must be drawn over the throat so that the back of the knife is at all times visible while shechita is being performed. It must not be stabbed into the neck or buried by fur, hide, feathers, the wound itself, or a foreign object (such as a scarf) which may cover the knife.[21]
• Hagramah (הגרמה; cutting in the wrong location) - Hagramah refers to the location on the neck on which a kosher cut may be performed; cutting outside this location will in most cases disqualify a kosher cut.[22] According to today's normative Orthodox practice, any cutting outside this area will in all cases disqualify a kosher cut.[22] The limits within which the knife may be applied are from the large ring in the windpipe to the top of the upper lobe of the lung when it is inflated, and corresponding to the length of the pharynx. Slaughtering above or below these limits renders the meat unkosher.
• Iqqur (עיקור; tearing) - If either the esophagus or the trachea is torn during the shechita incision, the carcass is rendered unkosher. Iqqur can occur if one tears out the esophagus or trachea while handling an animal's neck or if the esophagus or trachea is torn by a knife with imperfection/s on the blade, such as nicks or serration.[23][24][25] In order to avoid tearing, the kosher slaughter knife is expertly maintained and regularly checked with the shochet's fingernail to ensure that no nicks are present.[26]

Breaching any of these five rules renders the animal nevelah; the animal is regarded in Jewish law as if it were carrion.

Temple Grandin has observed that "if the rules (of the five forbidden techniques) are disobeyed, the animal will struggle. If these rules are obeyed, the animal has little reaction."[27]

Shechita - Wikipedia

 

[pinacled]

Procedure

Slaughtering poultry according to religious rules, Shalom Koboshvili, 1940
The shechita procedure, which must be performed by a shochet, is described in the relevant texts[5] only as severing the wind pipe and food pipe (trachea and esophagus). Nothing is mentioned about veins or arteries. However, in practice, as a very long sharp knife is used, in cattle the soft tissues in the neck are sliced through without the knife touching the spinal cord, in the course of which four major blood vessels, two of which transport oxygenated blood to the brain (the carotid arteries) the other two transporting blood back to the heart (jugular veins) are severed. The vagus nerve is also cut in this operation. With fowl, the same procedure is followed, but a smaller knife is used.

A special knife is used, that is very long; and no undue pressure may be applied to the knife, which must be very sharp.[6][7] The procedure may be performed with the animal either lying on its back (שחיטה מוונחת, shechita munachat) or standing (שחיטה מעומדת, shechita me'umedet).[8] In the case of fowl (with the exception of large fowl like turkey) the bird is held in the non-dominant hand in such a way that the head is pulled back and the neck exposed, while the cut made with the dominant hand.[9]

The procedure is done with the intention of causing a rapid drop in blood pressure in the brain and loss of consciousness, to render the animal insensitive to pain and to exsanguinate in a prompt and precise action.[10][11] It has been suggested that eliminating blood flow through the carotid arteries does not cut blood flow to the brain of a bovine because the brain is also supplied with blood by vertebral arteries,[12] however other authorities note the distinction between severing the carotid versus merely blocking it.[11]

If one did not sever the entirety of both the trachea and esophagus, then an animal may still be considered kosher as long as one severed the majority of the trachea and esophagus (windpipe and food pipe) of a mammal, or the majority of either one of these in the case of birds.[6] The cut must be incised with a back-and-forth motion without violating one of the five major prohibited techniques[13] (see below), or various other detailed rules.

Forbidden techniques

• Shehiyah (שהייה; delay or pausing) - Pausing during the incision and then starting to cut again makes the animal's flesh unkosher.[14] The knife must be moved across the neck in an uninterrupted motion until the trachea and esophagus are sufficiently severed to avoid this.[6] There is some disagreement among legal sources as to the exact length of time needed to constitute shehiyah, but today the normative practice is to disqualify a kosher cut as a result of any length of pausing.[15]
• Derasah (דרסה; pressing/chopping) - The knife must be drawn across the throat by a back and forth movement, not by chopping, hacking, or pressing without moving the knife back and forth.[16] There are those[17] who assert that it is forbidden to have the animal in an upright position during shechita due to the prohibition of derasah. They maintain that the animal must be on its back or lying on its side, and some also allow for the animal to be suspended upside down.[18] However, the Rambam explicitly permits upright slaughter,[19] and the Orthodox Union as well as all other major kosher certifiers in the United States accept upright slaughter.[20]
• Haladah (חלדה; covering, digging, or burying) - The knife must be drawn over the throat so that the back of the knife is at all times visible while shechita is being performed. It must not be stabbed into the neck or buried by fur, hide, feathers, the wound itself, or a foreign object (such as a scarf) which may cover the knife.[21]
• Hagramah (הגרמה; cutting in the wrong location) - Hagramah refers to the location on the neck on which a kosher cut may be performed; cutting outside this location will in most cases disqualify a kosher cut.[22] According to today's normative Orthodox practice, any cutting outside this area will in all cases disqualify a kosher cut.[22] The limits within which the knife may be applied are from the large ring in the windpipe to the top of the upper lobe of the lung when it is inflated, and corresponding to the length of the pharynx. Slaughtering above or below these limits renders the meat unkosher.
• Iqqur (עיקור; tearing) - If either the esophagus or the trachea is torn during the shechita incision, the carcass is rendered unkosher. Iqqur can occur if one tears out the esophagus or trachea while handling an animal's neck or if the esophagus or trachea is torn by a knife with imperfection/s on the blade, such as nicks or serration.[23][24][25] In order to avoid tearing, the kosher slaughter knife is expertly maintained and regularly checked with the shochet's fingernail to ensure that no nicks are present.[26]

Breaching any of these five rules renders the animal nevelah; the animal is regarded in Jewish law as if it were carrion.

Temple Grandin has observed that "if the rules (of the five forbidden techniques) are disobeyed, the animal will struggle. If these rules are obeyed, the animal has little reaction."[27]

Shechita - Wikipedia

Anyone with a basic understanding of anatomy knows the number of arteries in the body.

Also,
You just cited a source about a birds process of
Schechita

 

[LookuntoYeshua]

.

 

[HARK!]

Yet there is no mention of eating the whole lamb is there.
Nor are any specifics of separating parts that are to be eaten from parts that are to be a burnt offering far as I can see.

It is to be roasted whole. That takes about 3 hours minimum; and that doesn't include prep.

70 minutes from slaughter to table, is an unbelievable claim.

 

[HARK!]

Anyone with a basic understanding of anatomy knows the number of arteries in the body.

Anyone with an basic understanding of how kosher meats are prepared, knows that the throats of the animals are cut; and that it is a humane process.

 

[pinacled]

3

Close,

Do not forget the threshhold

 

[pinacled]

Anyone with an basic understanding of how kosher meats are prepared, knows that the throats of the animals are cut; and that it is a humane process.

With birds yes,
Not lambs

 

[HARK!]

Also,
You just cited a source about a birds process of sc
Schechita

It has been suggested that eliminating blood flow through the carotid arteries does not cut blood flow to the brain of a bovine

If one did not sever the entirety of both the trachea and esophagus, then an animal may still be considered kosher as long as one severed the majority of the trachea and esophagus (windpipe and food pipe) of a mammal

 

[ralliann]

It was a big debate among the two groups; which mountain?

Yahshua didn't really give a direct answer to the Samaritan woman's straw man.

(CLV) Jn 4:20
Our fathers worship in this mountain, and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where one must worship."

(CLV) Jn 4:21
Jesus is saying to her, "Believe Me, woman, that, coming is an hour when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem shall you be worshiping the Father.

Oh so your not really keeping the law

 

[HARK!]

With birds yes,
Not lambs

It has been suggested that eliminating blood flow through the carotid arteries does not cut blood flow to the brain of a bovine

If one did not sever the entirety of both the trachea and esophagus, then an animal may still be considered kosher as long as one severed the majority of the trachea and esophagus (windpipe and food pipe) of a mammal