Was the Last Supper a Seder?

pinacled

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(CLV) Jn 13:29
For some supposed, since Judas had the coffer, that Jesus is saying to him, "Buy what we have need of for the festival," or, that he may be giving something to the poor.

Who would suppose that Judas was going to go (against the Torah during the night of the Passover Meal) out into the streets of Jerusalem and buy something (against the Torah during the night of the Passover Meal) for the Passover meal that they were supposedly (falsely so) eating?

What could he have possibly been buying; and who would sell it to him on a High Shabbat?
I imagine Judas purchased sliced lamb throats and traded them for a sum.
 
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pinacled

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I would imagine that the Sanhedrin wouldn't be buying nor selling on a High Shabbat.
Whether or not what yom it was.
A certain council of individuals purchased sliced lamb throat.

And judas is a record of such
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Wow can you please explain that to me?
thanks
Ronit

He took a vow to not drink the fruit of the vine again until He drinks it new with us in the Kingdom. There is also the separation of the bride (us) and groom (Yeshua) until the marriage supper of the lamb. He promises to come and get His bride to bring her to His Father's house (usually at midnight). The last supper was also a marriage proposal (a covenant). The groom would offer the cup of wine to the bride. If she accepted it, they were betrothed. Then there would be a separation, where she would remain pure (kiddushin) until the wedding. The Father would also offer a mohar, in this case Yeshua's life ("you are not your own, for you were bought with a price").

ALL of this is very evident in the midnight Pascha service in Eastern Orthodoxy.
 
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AbbaLove

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I surely pray that you aren't slaughtering lambs by bleeding them out through their hooves.
Your mockery of pinacled won't earn you any respect in this MJ forum. You started this thread with what we assume was a question. However it's becoming obvious that you mistakenly think you know it all when actually you are blind to the Truth of the Words of Yahweh in Exodus 12.

Maybe, change your avatar to Hark! instead of HARK! or maybe just hark. With your avatar as HARK! you present yourself as Yahwah's spokesperson when in effect you are blind to the meaning of these verses ...

Exodus 12:6 (CLV)
6 And it will become a charge of yours until the fourteenth day of this month. They will slay it, every assembly of the congregation of the sons of Israel, between the evening hours.
Exodus 12:8 (CLV)
8 Then they will eat the flesh on this night, roasted with fire, and with unleavened cakes; over bitter herbs shall they eat it.
Exodus 12:10 (CLV)
10 You shall not reserve any of it until the morning. And what is left of it until the morning you shall burn with fire.
Exodus 12:18 (CLV)
18 In the first month on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, you shall eat unleavened cakes until the twenty-first day of the month, in the evening.​
It your understanding of those translations. I'm still waiting for your explanation of how to prepare a entire lamb, from slaughter to table, in 70 minutes. It doesn't work.
Again an example of your fixation on a tradition perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism. Yahweh speaking in verse 6 says, "They will slay it" ... "between the evening hours" (twilight). There is enough remaining daylight reflected in the sky from sunset to sundown. That's enough time for the Israelites to slaughter, remove the hide and prepare for roasting. Maybe you need to get your eyes examined instead of taking silly potshots as if it impresses others.

If you would only open your eyes you would see that verse 6 only says "slay" (not slay and roast). You are so fixated on the man-made tradition of the Sadducees and Pharisees that you won't accept what is plainly before your eyes in those verses as commanded by Yahweh.
 
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ralliann

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Different sacrifice. Passover is a memorial.
That is exactly the point I was making in the quote from Hebrews. They are sacrifices which are in accordance to the law given at Sinai.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
I include Yahshua in that memorial.
Are you a lawful priest in accordance to the law to offer that as a passover memorial?
I include him with the Exodus in my teaching with my family on the first day of Hag Matzot.
The passover of Christ can be celebrated without a temple minister. He is our passover.
 
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AbbaLove

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Are you a lawful priest in accordance to the law to offer that as a passover memorial? (reply to Hark)
Hark, apparently keeps track of the ripening barley harvest to determine the first month of Abib (aka Nissan/Nisan), so maybe he considers himself a lawful priest. This barley harvest and the beginning the new year can get a little tricky as approximately every 3 years there is an extra month in the Hebrew calendar (Abib 1 and Abib 2). The barley harvest (at least a few sheaves) signals the onset of the first month of the Hebrew calendar with the Festival/Feast of Pesach/Passover and Unleavened Bread.
I wait until the barley is Abib; then I count from the first visible crescent.
Sounds like Hark is carrying on the traditions of the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem, and yet they were blind to their Messiah among them. Yet Hark would rather adhere to their man-made traditions than the Words of Yahweh (e.g. Exodus 12:6-18)
To be fair Hark (if he hasn't already) should also look to the Karaites in Israel for the state of the ripening barley harvest signaling the month of Abib/Aviv/Nissan/Nisan than just relying on Rabbinic Judaism and their oral law. The Karaites go only be the written Torah, not the Talmud of Rabbinic Judaism. Usually a few sheaves of barley almost ready for harvest can first be found in southern Israel in the Negeb between Beer Shebah and the Gaza strip.

,Exodus 12:18 (CLV)
18 In the first month on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, you shall eat unleavened cakes until the twenty-first day of the month, in the evening.​

GOD did not hinge the start of a new year on the state of the barley crop, even if on occasions in the first and second centuries A.D. the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem decided to use the state of the barley harvest to start a new year one new moon later. Again, Hark is blinded by man-made traditions. Bless his heart as he means well even if he is would rather hold to Jewish tradition than the Word of GOD ...

Exodus 12:8 (CLV)
8 Then they will eat the flesh on this night, roasted with fire, and with unleavened cakes; over bitter herbs shall they eat it.
18 In the first month on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, you shall eat unleavened cakes until the twenty-first day of the month, in the evening.​

Hark, is blind to the explicit Words of Yahweh from his favorite Bible translation. Instead he prefers to honor the man-made traditions of the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin that has also been perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism and their oral law.
 
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HARK!

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Again an example of your fixation on a tradition perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism. Yahweh speaking in verse 6 says, "They will slay it" ... "between the evening hours" (twilight). There is enough remaining daylight reflected in the sky from sunset to sundown. That's enough time for the Israelites to slaughter, remove the hide and prepare for roasting. Maybe you need to get your eyes examined instead of taking silly potshots as if it impresses others.

If you would only open your eyes you would see that verse 6 only says "slay" (not slay and roast). You are so fixated on the man-made tradition of the Sadducees and Pharisees that you won't accept what is plainly before your eyes in those verses as commanded by Yahweh.

You can't roast a whole lamb by fire in 70 minutes. You have failed to produce otherwise. We are not to leave our homes during the night. That means that the lamb must be inside before sundown.

Sounds like Hark is carrying on the traditions of the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem, and yet they were blind to their Messiah among them. Yet Hark would rather adhere to their man-made traditions than the Words of Yahweh (e.g. Exodus 12:6-18)

You're mistaken; and I find your continued false accusations to be offensive. I follow Torah.

To be fair Hark (if he hasn't already) should also look to the Karaites in Israel for the state of the ripening barley harvest signaling the month of Abib/Aviv/Nissan/Nisan than just relying on Rabbinic Judaism and their oral law. The Karaites go only be the written Torah, not the Talmud of Rabbinic Judaism. Usually a few sheaves of barley almost ready for harvest can first be found in southern Israel in the Negeb between Beer Shebah and the Gaza strip.

I've looked hard at the Karaites. I was looking for a congregation to visit; until I read on one of their websites that they want nothing to do with Messianics. I look for barley sightings in Israel every season. I also grow my own barley, on close to the same parallel as Israel, as a backup.

The Karaites can provide valuable insight; but YHWH has the final word in my book.
 
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GedaliahMaegil

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He took a vow to not drink the fruit of the vine again until He drinks it new with us in the Kingdom. There is also the separation of the bride (us) and groom (Yeshua) until the marriage supper of the lamb. He promises to come and get His bride to bring her to His Father's house (usually at midnight). The last supper was also a marriage proposal (a covenant). The groom would offer the cup of wine to the bride. If she accepted it, they were betrothed. Then there would be a separation, where she would remain pure (kiddushin) until the wedding. The Father would also offer a mohar, in this case Yeshua's life ("you are not your own, for you were bought with a price").

ALL of this is very evident in the midnight Pascha service in Eastern Orthodoxy.

This was not a vow according to the Torah of a nazir (cf. Bamidbar (Numbers) 6). Messiah Yeshua clearly accepted the vinegar that was given to Him (cf. Yochanan (John) 19), which was forbidden to those accepting the vow of a nazir. Since Messiah was and is not a violator of Torah, He would not have taken such a vow, only to break it a few hours later.
 
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HARK!

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Are you a lawful priest in accordance to the law to offer that as a passover memorial?

Where, in the scripture concerning the Tabernacle period, can we find instructions that the lambs for each family must be slaughtered by a priest?
 
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HARK!

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Hark, apparently keeps track of the ripening barley harvest to determine the first month of Abib (aka Nissan/Nisan), so maybe he considers himself a lawful priest. This barley harvest and the beginning the new year can get a little tricky as approximately every 3 years there is an extra month in the Hebrew calendar (Abib 1 and Abib 2). The barley harvest (at least a few sheaves) signals the onset of the first month of the Hebrew calendar with the Festival/Feast of Pesach/Passover and Unleavened Bread.

Must one be a priest to recognize when the barley is abib?
 
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Ronit

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He took a vow to not drink the fruit of the vine again until He drinks it new with us in the Kingdom. There is also the separation of the bride (us) and groom (Yeshua) until the marriage supper of the lamb. He promises to come and get His bride to bring her to His Father's house (usually at midnight). The last supper was also a marriage proposal (a covenant). The groom would offer the cup of wine to the bride. If she accepted it, they were betrothed. Then there would be a separation, where she would remain pure (kiddushin) until the wedding. The Father would also offer a mohar, in this case Yeshua's life ("you are not your own, for you were bought with a price").

ALL of this is very evident in the midnight Pascha service in Eastern Orthodoxy.
I'm familiar with that. Thank you :)
I was not aware about Eastern Orthodox, thank you for teaching me. :)
Best Wishes
Ronit
 
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HARK!

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Sounds like Hark is carrying on the traditions of the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem, and yet they were blind to their Messiah among them. Yet Hark would rather adhere to their man-made traditions than the Words of Yahweh (e.g. Exodus 12:6-18)

I'm beginning to see an offensive pattern here. Are you aware that the sitewide rules state that we are to address the content of the post, not the poster?

It has been stated by myself, and others, more than once that I follow Torah over tradition.

However, whether or not you believe me, how is this relevant to the OP?
 
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Ronit

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I'm begging to see an offensive pattern here. Are you aware that the sitewide rules state that we are to address the content of the post, not the poster?

It has been stated by myself, and others, more than once that I follow Torah over tradition.

However, whether or not you believe me, how is this relevant to the OP?
Yes Torah over Tradition :) The only way to go!
 
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HARK!

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GOD did not hinge the start of a new year on the state of the barley crop, even if on occasions in the first and second centuries A.D. the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem decided to use the state of the barley harvest to start a new year one new moon later. Again, Hark is blinded by man-made traditions. Bless his heart as he means well even if he is would rather hold to Jewish tradition than the Word of GOD ...

Deuteronomy 16:1
Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the Lord thy God: for in the month of Abib the Lord thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.
 
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Yes Torah over Tradition :) The only way to go!

Insofar as they do no harm to Torah - to either add to or take away - traditions are a good way to promote community. However, only Torah can display the fruit of a people in covenant with their Elohim.
 
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