Did God know if you were going to read this thread?

[doubtingmerle]

let me think back the last years of parenthood, oh nevermind

as this is a trick question
no matter which way I answer, you'll tie it to God with another illogical statement

our daughter is adopted so she doesn't have my genes
however, just this week, she said she takes after me

No , it was not a trick question.

I think you will say that you are sometimes mistaken about what your daughter will do. So your whole argument is void. The foreknowledge/ freewill question is an issue only if one claims somebody has absolute knowledge about the future.

 

[mama2one]

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[doubtingmerle]

my first answer was actually,
"never, as I know her too well" but changed my answer as figured a trick question

we have a mother-daughter journal so she shares a lot of personal things with me

If it really is true that you know what your daughter will do with absolute certainty, where is her free will? For it would be impossible for her to ever change what she does.

 

[mama2one]

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[mama2one]

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[Kaon]

OK, you are here. Did God know if you were going to read this thread?

If yes, then how can you have free will? For you had to click that button, and there is no way you could have done anything but read this.

But if God did not know, how can he be all knowing?

Yes.

We do not have free will; we have the limited ability to respond to stimuli we face, but everything that will happen has already happened.

Prophecy is an exhibition in the limited will we have, and an insight into election and predesination. No created being has "free" will because created beings are matter - and matter is still controlled by fundamental forces.

 

[doubtingmerle]

she has free will and makes lots of her own choices

I just know her so well
why is that difficult to understand?

she might change her mind on doing an activity, for example & then I'll say "knew you were going to change your mind."

her choice to change her mind, not mine
but I can read her like a book


also, husband and I were finishing each other's sentences when we were dating
does that mean we had NO choice as to what we each said?

You know her well, but she is free to do something different from what you predict. Sometimes she does things different from what you expect.

That is different from what folks are saying here about god. They say there is no way to do it different from what he knows will happen.

 

[doubtingmerle]

created beings are matter - and matter is still controlled by fundamental forces.

I

That's it. I am matter and energy that responds to physical forces. That matter creates a feeling of "me" that sure seems to be free.

 

[Kaon]

I

That's it. I am matter and energy that responds to physical forces. That matter creates a feeling of "me" that sure seems to be free.

And, as we (should) know, feelings lie.

A god has the capacity to be well above the maximum possible human ability, but a god is still not "free" in terms of will. In fact, little g gods running amok may very well know their appointed times, and they rely on us (energy from the surroundings) to change their appointed internal energy/predestination. Our ignorance and/or allegiance provides them with an illusion of external "energy" that can change an otherwise "ideal" system whose end is predictable and founded.

Humans would have to be able to 100% control emotion to even begin to comprehend our individual purpose. Then, we have to accept it. It usually takes a lifetime (or, a tremendous amount of experience) for a human to be able to control his/her emotions.

 

[mama2one]

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[doubtingmerle]

a god is still not "free" in terms of will. In fact, little g gods running amok may very well know their appointed times, and they rely on us (energy from the surroundings) to change their appointed internal energy/predestination. Our ignorance and/or allegiance provides them with an illusion of external "energy" that can change an otherwise "ideal" system whose end is predictable and founded.

Wait, what?

Are you making this stuff up?

 

[doubtingmerle]

and yes, I have free will
I'm not a puppet

If God knows you are going to do something, do you or do you not have the freewill to do it different from what he knows?

 

[doubtingmerle]

no, she doesn't but then she's not a teen, yet

and yes, I have free will
I'm not a puppet

Rolling on the floor laughing! You know everything your child will do and you will never ever be surprised at her actions!

Just wait until she becomes a teenager.

 

[mama2one]

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[Kaon]

Wait, what?

Are you making this stuff up?

No. There are many "gods" but only one actual God - but this Entity is infinitely greater than any god or magistrate. This is the One that controls everything - and this includes the gods masquerading as different figures or powers. They do not have free will; they have an appointment to destruction, but they use our ignorance and "energy" to try to postpone their demise. Except, what they are doing is from a place of confusion (not intent).

Only holy entities have "free will", and they abdicate all of their will to the Most High by consequence of their holiness. So, no entity actually has free will - not even gods, demons and angels.

 

[doubtingmerle]

look in the Bible
there are passages where people changed God's mind

I can't tell you where but saw it on another thread one day

people can pray and God will often intervene
there's a movie that was out last year about a boy that died, was pronounced dead by the Dr

the mother came in and prayed and he came back to life
Chrissy Metz played the mom
true story

Ah, so the Dr mistakenly thought he was dead, yes?

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[Qwertyui0p]

No.

Again, what I said is, if God knows for sure that you will do something, then you [would] have no choice but to do what he knows. Do you agree?

No, I don't agree, and you shouldn't either if you replied no to my question. If God knows something because it is true, rather than vice versa, then God knew that I would read the thread because I would, rather than I read this thread because God knew I would.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Again, what I said is, if God knows for sure that you will do something, then you [would] have no choice but to do what he knows. Do you agree?

No, I don't agree.

Ok, so if God knows for sure that you will do something, then you would have the choice to do different from what he knows.

Is that your final answer?

 

[Qwertyui0p]

Ok, so if God knows for sure that you will do something, then you would have the choice to do different from what he knows.

Is that your final answer?

No, because if I were to choose differently, he would know that instead.