LDS The Futile Attempt by Mormons to Earn God's Grace

[Rescued One]

No one is saved until they endure to the end:

(New Testament | Matthew 24:12 - 13)

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

All the sheep endure to the end. Our faith gives us the VICTORY and no one can snatch us from the Savior's hand.

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love." - 1 John 4:18 ESV

God will decide who LOVES Him and who doesn't:

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

God's will most certainly will be done!


Proverbs 16
9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.


Romans 9
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 

[He is the way]

Romans 9
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[He is the way]

All the sheep endure to the end. Our faith gives us the VICTORY and no one can snatch us from the Savior's hand.

We know the sheep, they do the works:

(New Testament | Matthew 25:32 - 46)

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

(New Testament | James 2:14 - 20)

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[Rescued One]

We are all servants of God:

(New Testament | Matthew 25:24 - 30)

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Proverbs 16
4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

No one has done anything worthy of merit, the only way our work has power is by the blood of Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1
2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; 3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; 4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. 5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. 6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: 7So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

2 Thessalonians 1
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Rescued One]

We know the sheep, they do the works:

Yet not I, but the grace of God!

1 Corinthians 15
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

 

[Ran77]

All who haven't earned the celestial kingdom, must suffer in Mormon hell temporararily.

And all who haven't done what is required for the mainstream Christian heaven, will permanently suffer in the hell described in the Bible.

 

[He is the way]

Proverbs 16
4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

No one has done anything worthy of merit, the only way our work has power is by the blood of Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1
2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; 3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; 4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. 5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. 6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: 7So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

2 Thessalonians 1
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 1:17)

17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

(New Testament | Revelation 20:12 - 13)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

[He is the way]

Yet not I, but the grace of God!

1 Corinthians 15
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

We are not saved by works, neither are we saved without works.

 

[BigDaddy4]

How many do you keep? People need to worry about there own salvation.

Nice avoidance of the question. In another thread, you stated that you do not sin, that you "keep the commandments". Why not admit that here?

 

[He is the way]

Nice avoidance of the question. In another thread, you stated that you do not sin, that you "keep the commandments". Why not admit that here?

Anyone can and should keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:2 - 5)

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

There is no reason to sin and God is the judge. Jesus said sin no more and He meant it.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Anyone can and should keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:2 - 5)

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

There is no reason to sin and God is the judge. Jesus said sin no more and He meant it.

So, to answer the question that you avoided, "How many commandments do you keep?", are you declaring that you keep them all and therefore are not a sinner and do not sin?

I don't know why it's so difficult for you to answer a direct question with a direct answer.

 

[He is the way]

So, to answer the question that you avoided, "How many commandments do you keep?", are you declaring that you keep them all and therefore are not a sinner and do not sin?

I don't know why it's so difficult for you to answer a direct question with a direct answer.

I really don't like answering personal questions especially if it is done for the purpose of flaming or goading, and, as you have already pointed out, I have already answered that question.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I really don't like answering personal questions especially if it is done for the purpose of flaming or goading, and, as you have already pointed out, I have already answered that question.

You open yourself up to scrutiny when you make your LOVE statements. It's a splinter/log in the eye thing.

 

[He is the way]

You open yourself up to scrutiny when you make your LOVE statements. It's a splinter/log in the eye thing.

Those statements are in the Bible so why would anyone reject them:

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(New Testament | Matthew 22:36 - 40)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

It is the gospel of LOVE.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Those statements are in the Bible so why would anyone reject them:

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(New Testament | Matthew 22:36 - 40)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

It is the gospel of LOVE.

No one on this board rejects those Bible verses; just your interpretation of them.

 

[He is the way]

No one on this board rejects those Bible verses; just your interpretation of them.

What is it about them that is not to understand? They seem very clear to me.

 

[BigDaddy4]

What is it about them that is not to understand? They seem very clear to me.

Of course they do, with your lds glasses on. The rest of us take Scripture in context with other Scripture. And I would hope that NONE of us would declare that we are perfect and do not sin any more, like you have claimed.

 

[Rescued One]

I am not here to debate, not at all. However, I would point out that when my fellow Protestants quote Scripture in defense of faith over works, they almost always quote Paul's letters and not the words of Jesus in the Gospels. Independent religious scholars usually state that Paul emphasized faith, while Jesus emphasized works/deeds of love and mercy. I am not saying that there is a direct contradiction between the two, but there certainly is a big difference in emphasis.

Who are your fellow Protestants?

What do you mean "faith over works?" God gives us genuine, living faith when we are still dead in sins. He never tells us to go on our way and sin. Faith without works is dead, because the faith that God gives isn't dead at all! He only gives perfect gifts. Living faith gives us the desire to please God. Sin doesn't please God!

Do you understand that?

 

[Rescued One]

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

When God instructs His sheep, they follow Him so that the other sheep will notice and also follow.

 

[Rescued One]

What is it about them that is not to understand? They seem very clear to me.

The verses are clear to His sheep. We are following Him.