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Featured LDS The Futile Attempt by Mormons to Earn God's Grace

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    According to CF and the Christians who post here, Oneness Pentecostals are not Christians. They reject our God.

    Although Oneness Pentecostals accept that "Christ is the same person as God,"[23] they also believe that "The 'Son' was 'born,' which means that he had a beginning."[23] In other words, "Oneness adherents understand the term [Son] to be applicable to God only after the incarnation."[25]
    Pre-existence of Christ - Wikipedia.
     
  2. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Jesus LOVES those who LOVE and obey Him. He was sent by the Father:

    (New Testament | John 14:21 - 24)

    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
    22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
    23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
    24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
     
  3. Hrairoo

    Hrairoo Prayerfully Searching

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    That's not how it was translated in the Book of Mormon. You know, the most correct book of any on Earth. The one where, during the translation process, new words would not appear to Joseph Smith until the current word or sentences had been written correctly by his scribes. The one book where the only "editing" that was done was not doctrinal but just grammatical and spelling.

    1 Nephi (1830)

    11:18 And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of God, after the manner of flesh.

    11:21 And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father! Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw?

    11:32 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me again, saying, look! And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God, was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record.

    Yeah. Adding "son" to that stuff doesn't change the doctrine at all.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    I did not say that Jesus Christ is NOT a God, and Jesus Christ has already let us know how He and the Father are one. He said they are one through glory and perfection:

    (New Testament | John 17:20 - 25)

    20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
    21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
    24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
    25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

    The Father sent His Son, Jesus Christ. The Father is greater than the Son:

    (New Testament | John 5:36)

    36 ¶ But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

    (New Testament | John 14:28)

    28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

    Both the Father and the Son created all things:

    (New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
     
  5. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    Father and Son and Holy Spirit are equal.

    Philippians 2
    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    Christian thankful for the blood.jpg


    John 17
    1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Jesus didn't earn the right to be our Savior!
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020 at 7:26 AM
  6. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    There are not billions of Gods as LDS teach:


    "Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power."
    - Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse
    Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 346-347
    The King Follett Sermon
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 1:11 AM
  7. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    (New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

    34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
    35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

    (New Testament | Hebrews 12:10)

    10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

    (New Testament | 2 Peter 1:4)

    4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    (New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    (New Testament | Romans 8:16 - 17)

    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    (New Testament | Philippians 3:13 - 15)

    13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
    15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
     
  8. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    Prior to this, Jesus was about to be stoned by a mob of hostile religious leaders. Their claim was that Jesus committed blasphemy, by claiming He and God were "one" (John 10:30–31; 10:33). Jesus' immediate response, however, was to refer to His miracles—indirectly pointing out that His words ought to be judged in the context of His ministry, and not with careless prejudice (John 10:32).

    Starting here, Jesus begins to use a debate style which these men knew all too well. Religious leaders and scribes of this era would often debate Scripture, using an endless barrage of technicalities and convoluted explanations. Jesus engages in an abbreviated form of that technique to prove that, even by their own standards, they're being hypocrites.

    Jesus cites Psalm 82:1–8. A reference to the Old Testament grounds His claim in something these men claim to take seriously: the Word of God. In the next verses, Jesus will compare the words of the Old Testament to the claim these men now claim is blasphemous. It's important to note that Jesus isn't making a blanket defense of all claims related to God. Rather, He'll once again point to all of the ways in which He fulfills the role of Messiah. If "gods" is an appropriate description—from God Himself—to those who are enable to perform His will, then how can they stone Jesus, who has performed actual miracles, for blasphemy by claiming to be the Son of God?
    What does John 10:34 mean?




    Our parents temporarily disciplined us for our earthly existence. God chastens us so that we may live with Him forever.


    "Ἑις marks the final purpose of chastening. Holiness is life. Shall we not be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For, in contrast with the temporary, faultful chastening of the human parent, which, at best, prepares for work and success in time and in worldly things, his chastening results in holiness and eternal life."
    Hebrews 12:10 Commentaries: For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.

    Holiness doesn't result in Godhood. There will never be more than one God.

    Isaiah 44:6
    Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.


    Isaiah 44:8
    Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.


    Isaiah 45:22
    Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.





    Faith unites the weak believer to Christ, as really as it does the strong one, and purifies the heart of one as truly as of another; and every sincere believer is by his faith justified in the sight of God. Faith worketh godliness, and produces effects which no other grace in the soul can do. In Christ all fulness dwells, and pardon, peace, grace, and knowledge, and new principles, are thus given through the Holy Spirit. The promises to those who are partakers of a Divine nature, will cause us to inquire whether we are really renewed in the spirit of our minds; let us turn all these promises into prayers for the transforming and purifying grace of the Holy Spirit.
    2 Peter 1 Bible Commentary - Matthew Henry (concise)




    The example of our Lord Jesus Christ is set before us. We must resemble him in his life, if we would have the benefit of his death. Notice the two natures of Christ; his Divine nature, and human nature. Who being in the form of God, partaking the Divine nature, as the eternal and only-begotten Son of God, Joh 1:1, had not thought it a robbery to be equal with God, and to receive Divine worship from men. His human nature; herein he became like us in all things except sin. Thus low, of his own will, he stooped from the glory he had with the Father before the world was. Christ's two states, of humiliation and exaltation, are noticed. Christ not only took upon him the likeness and fashion, or form of a man, but of one in a low state; not appearing in splendour. His whole life was a life of poverty and suffering. But the lowest step was his dying the death of the cross, the death of a malefactor and a slave; exposed to public hatred and scorn. The exaltation was of Christ's human nature, in union with the Divine. At the name of Jesus, not the mere sound of the word, but the authority of Jesus, all should pay solemn homage. It is to the glory of God the Father, to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; for it is his will, that all men should honour the Son as they honour the Father, Joh 5:23. Here we see such motives to self-denying love as nothing else can supply. Do we thus love and obey the Son of God?
    Philippians 2 Matthew Henry's Commentary





    [2.] But you have received the Spirit of adoption. Men may give a charter of adoption; but it is God's prerogative, when he adopts, to give a spirit of adoption-the nature of children. The Spirit of adoption works in the children of God a filial love to God as a Father, a delight in him, and a dependence upon him, as a Father. A sanctified soul bears the image of God, as the child bears the image of the father. Whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Praying is here called crying, which is not only an earnest, but a natural expression of desire; children that cannot speak vent their desires by crying. Now, the Spirit teaches us in prayer to come to God as a Father, with a holy humble confidence, emboldening the soul in that duty. Abba, Father. Abba is a Syriac word signifying father or my father; pateµr, a Greek work; and why both, Abba, Father? Because Christ said so in prayer (Mk. 14:36), Abba, Father: and we have received the Spirit of the Son. It denotes an affectionate endearing importunity, and a believing stress laid upon the relation. Little children, begging of their parents, can say little but Father, Father, and that is rhetoric enough. It also denotes that the adoption is common both to Jews and Gentiles: the Jews call him Abba in their language, the Greeks may call him pateµr in their language; for in Christ Jesus there is neither Greek nor Jew.
    (2.) To witness to the relation of children, v. 16. The former is the work of the Spirit as a Sanctifier; this as a Comforter. Beareth witness with our spirit. Many a man has the witness of his own spirit to the goodness of his state who has not the concurring testimony of the Spirit. Many speak peace to themselves to whom the God of heaven does not speak peace. But those that are sanctified have God's Spirit witnessing with their spirits, which is to be understood not of any immediate extraordinary revelation, but an ordinary work of the Spirit, in and by the means of comfort, speaking peace to the soul. This testimony is always agreeable to the written word, and is therefore always grounded upon sanctification; for the Spirit in the heart cannot contradict the Spirit in the word. The Spirit witnesses to none the privileges of children who have not the nature and disposition of children.
    In these words the apostle describes a fourth illustrious branch of the happiness of believers, namely, a title to the future glory. This is fitly annexed to our sonship; for as the adoption of sons entitles us to that glory, so the disposition of sons fits and prepares us for it. If children, then heirs, v. 17. In earthly inheritances this rule does not hold, only the first-born are heirs; but the church is a church of first-born, for they are all heirs. Heaven is an inheritance that all the saints are heirs to. They do not come to it as purchasers by any merit or procurement of their own; but as heirs, purely by the act of God; for God makes heirs. The saints are heirs though in this world they are heirs under age; see Gal. 4:1, 2. Their present state is a state of education and preparation for the inheritance. How comfortable should this be to all the children of God, how little soever they have in possession, that, being heirs, they have enough in reversion! But the honour and happiness of an heir lie in the value and worth of that which he is heir to: we read of those that inherit the wind; and therefore we have here an abstract of the premises. 1. Heirs of God. The Lord himself is the portion of the saints' inheritance (Ps. 16:5), a goodly heritage, v. 6. The saints are spiritual priests, that have the Lord for their inheritance, Num. 18:20. The vision of God and the fruition of God make up the inheritance the saints are heirs to. God himself will be with them, and will be their God, Rev. 21:3. 2. Joint-heirs with Christ. Christ, as Mediator, is said to be the heir of all things (Heb. 1:2), and true believers, by virtue of their union with him, shall inherit all things, Rev. 21:7. Those that now partake of the Spirit of Christ, as his brethren, shall, as his brethren, partake of his glory (Jn. 17:24), shall sit down with him upon his throne, Rev. 3:21. Lord, what is man, that thou shouldst thus magnify him! Now this future glory is further spoken of as the reward of present sufferings and as the accomplishment of present hopes.
    Romans 8 Bible Commentary - Matthew Henry (complete)


    Psalm 51:10
    Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
    (one of my favorite prayers)
     
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