LDS The Futile Attempt by Mormons to Earn God's Grace

[He is the way]

Christians have never told anyone to continue in sin. I implore you to abandon Joseph Smith.

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 2)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

A truck driver was asked if he could drive a mile without causing an accident. He responded that he could. Then he was told that if he treated every mile he drove with the same care he would not cause any accidents. It is much the same way with sin. Can a person go an hour without willfully sinning? If that person treats every hour with the same care they can stop sinning willfully.

Wow that sounds like pride.

We need to have a dependence on God, not ourselves.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Should we continue to sin that grace may abound? God forbid.

No Longer Slaves to Sin, but God’s Servants
6 What should we say then? Should we continue to sin so that God’s kindness[a] will increase? 2 That’s unthinkable! As far as sin is concerned, we have died. So how can we still live under sin’s influence?

3 Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 When we were baptized into his death, we were placed into the tomb with him. As Christ was brought back from death to life by the glorious power of the Father, so we, too, should live a new kind of life. 5 If we’ve become united with him in a death like his, certainly we will also be united with him when we come back to life as he did. 6 We know that the person we used to be was crucified with him to put an end to sin in our bodies. Because of this we are no longer slaves to sin. 7 The person who has died has been freed from sin.

8 If we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, who was brought back to life, will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him. 10 When he died, he died once and for all to sin’s power. But now he lives, and he lives for God. 11 So consider yourselves dead to sin’s power but living for God in the power Christ Jesus gives you.

12 Therefore, never let sin rule your physical body so that you obey its desires. 13 Never offer any part of your body to sin’s power. No part of your body should ever be used to do any ungodly thing. Instead, offer yourselves to God as people who have come back from death and are now alive. Offer all the parts of your body to God. Use them to do everything that God approves of. 14 Certainly, sin shouldn’t have power over you because you’re not controlled by God’s laws, but by God’s favor.

15 Then what is the implication? Should we sin because we are not controlled by God’s laws but by God’s favor? That’s unthinkable! 16 Don’t you know that if you offer to be someone’s slave, you must obey that master? Either your master is sin, or your master is obedience. Letting sin be your master leads to death. Letting obedience be your master leads to God’s approval. 17 You were slaves to sin. But I thank God that you have become wholeheartedly obedient to the teachings which you were given. 18 Freed from sin, you were made slaves who do what God approves of.

19 I’m speaking in a human way because of the weakness of your corrupt nature. Clearly, you once offered all the parts of your body as slaves to sexual perversion and disobedience. This led you to live disobedient lives. Now, in the same way, offer all the parts of your body as slaves that do what God approves of. This leads you to live holy lives. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from doing what God approves of.

21 What did you gain by doing those things? You’re ashamed of what you used to do because it ended in death. 22 Now you have been freed from sin and have become God’s slaves. This results in a holy life and, finally, in everlasting life. 23 The payment for sin is death, but the gift that God freely gives is everlasting life found in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[He is the way]

No Longer Slaves to Sin, but God’s Servants
6 What should we say then? Should we continue to sin so that God’s kindness[a] will increase? 2 That’s unthinkable! As far as sin is concerned, we have died. So how can we still live under sin’s influence?

3 Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 When we were baptized into his death, we were placed into the tomb with him. As Christ was brought back from death to life by the glorious power of the Father, so we, too, should live a new kind of life. 5 If we’ve become united with him in a death like his, certainly we will also be united with him when we come back to life as he did. 6 We know that the person we used to be was crucified with him to put an end to sin in our bodies. Because of this we are no longer slaves to sin. 7 The person who has died has been freed from sin.

8 If we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, who was brought back to life, will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him. 10 When he died, he died once and for all to sin’s power. But now he lives, and he lives for God. 11 So consider yourselves dead to sin’s power but living for God in the power Christ Jesus gives you.

12 Therefore, never let sin rule your physical body so that you obey its desires. 13 Never offer any part of your body to sin’s power. No part of your body should ever be used to do any ungodly thing. Instead, offer yourselves to God as people who have come back from death and are now alive. Offer all the parts of your body to God. Use them to do everything that God approves of. 14 Certainly, sin shouldn’t have power over you because you’re not controlled by God’s laws, but by God’s favor.

15 Then what is the implication? Should we sin because we are not controlled by God’s laws but by God’s favor? That’s unthinkable! 16 Don’t you know that if you offer to be someone’s slave, you must obey that master? Either your master is sin, or your master is obedience. Letting sin be your master leads to death. Letting obedience be your master leads to God’s approval. 17 You were slaves to sin. But I thank God that you have become wholeheartedly obedient to the teachings which you were given. 18 Freed from sin, you were made slaves who do what God approves of.

19 I’m speaking in a human way because of the weakness of your corrupt nature. Clearly, you once offered all the parts of your body as slaves to sexual perversion and disobedience. This led you to live disobedient lives. Now, in the same way, offer all the parts of your body as slaves that do what God approves of. This leads you to live holy lives. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from doing what God approves of.

21 What did you gain by doing those things? You’re ashamed of what you used to do because it ended in death. 22 Now you have been freed from sin and have become God’s slaves. This results in a holy life and, finally, in everlasting life. 23 The payment for sin is death, but the gift that God freely gives is everlasting life found in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(New Testament | 1 John 2:29)

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

(New Testament | Revelation 3:5)

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(New Testament | Revelation 20:12)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Rescued One]

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 2)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Christians have never told anyone to continue in sin. I implore you to abandon Joseph Smith.

 

[Rescued One]

(New Testament | 1 John 2:29)

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 2:29 is about recognizing those who have been born again. It doesn't say you won't be born again until you do righteous acts.

John 3:8
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The new birth comes from God, not ourselves and certainly not from following Joseph Smith!

(New Testament | Revelation 3:5)

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

1 John 5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

God gives us victorious faith!

(New Testament | Revelation 20:12)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book wasn opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were writtein the books, according to their works.

1 John 3
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[He is the way]

1 John 2:29 is about recognizing those who have been born again. It doesn't say you won't be born again until you do righteous acts.

John 3:8
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The new birth comes from God, not ourselves and certainly not from following Joseph Smith!



1 John 5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

God gives us victorious faith!




1 John 3
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We are born again by being baptized for the remission of sins.

 

[Rescued One]

We are born again by being baptized for the remission of sins.

John 3
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

read to here

who did Jesus baptise?

 

[Tra Phull]

120 people on day of Pentecost, with Holy Ghost and fire.

 

[He is the way]

John 3
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Yes born of the water and the spirit:

(New Testament | Mark 1:4 - 8)

4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;
7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

(New Testament | Mark 16:16)

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

(New Testament | Romans 6:4 - 6)

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

(New Testament | Galatians 3:27)

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

(New Testament | Colossians 2:8 - 14)

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

 

[He is the way]

read to here

who did Jesus baptise?

(New Testament | John 3:22 - 23)

22 ¶ After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judæa; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 ¶ And John also was baptizing in ænon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

 

[Tra Phull]

In john 4:2 we have the KJV:

Though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples.

Did that mean His disciples did the baptizing, or that Jesus only baptized the disciples?

Greek professor in college said the disciples did the baptizing.

Jesus would later baptize in the Holy Ghost.

 

[Tra Phull]

Paul did not baptize a lot of people, somewhere he enumerates who all he personally baptized, not a big list.

 

[Tra Phull]

1 Cor 1:13-16 gives a few that Paul baptized - he may have meant ONLY AT CORINTH, I dunno

 

[He is the way]

In john 4:2 we have the KJV:

Though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples.

Did that mean His disciples did the baptizing, or that Jesus only baptized the disciples?

Greek professor in college said the disciples did the baptizing.

Jesus would later baptize in the Holy Ghost.

It seems to me that in order to concur with the scripture I posted that Jesus only baptized the disciples.

 

[Tra Phull]

John 4:2 in NRSV says "although it was not Jesus Himself but His disciples who baptized" - and this seemed to be the same baptism for the remission of sins that John the Baptist was doing, and Jesus' ministry was doing more than John's - of whom it was said earlier that "all of Judea" went out to be baptized by John. So all of the baptism was not what we know as Christian baptism after Christ had been resurrected. The 120 people on Pentecost were baptized in the Holy Spirit. So it is a bit unclear - the baptism of John is contrasted later with Christian baptism in the Holy Ghost. The reasoning of my Greek professor was over my head at the time, and I surely have forgotten much of what I knew anyhow.

HITW, what is the method of Mormon baptism?
Immersion, sprinkling and pouring are all used by different churches.

Even today, Oneness Pentecostals baptize "in the name of Jesus",rather than normal formula of in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[He is the way]

John 4:2 in NRSV says "although it was not Jesus Himself but His disciples who baptized" - and this seemed to be the same baptism for the remission of sins that John the Baptist was doing, and Jesus' ministry was doing more than John's - of whom it was said earlier that "all of Judea" went out to be baptized by John. So all of the baptism was not what we know as Christian baptism after Christ had been resurrected. The 120 people on Pentecost were baptized in the Holy Spirit. So it is a bit unclear - the baptism of John is contrasted later with Christian baptism in the Holy Ghost. The reasoning of my Greek professor was over my head at the time, and I surely have forgotten much of what I knew anyhow.

HITW, what is the method of Mormon baptism?
Immersion, sprinkling and pouring are all used by different churches.

Even today, Oneness Pentecostals baptize "in the name of Jesus",rather than normal formula of in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

We baptize by immersion and only those who have reached the age of accountability.

 

[Tra Phull]

Acts 18:25-26 tells of Apollos "knowing only the baptism of John" and being instructed more perfectly by Aquilla and Priscilla.

Hebrews 6:2 speaks of "doctrine of baptisms - PLURAL - although we have the phrase in Ephesians 4:5 of "one Lord, one faith, one baptism"

 

[Tra Phull]

I was sprinkled as an infant (so they tell me, I have no independent recollection of it) in Methodist Church. I chose to be immersed at 19.
If I had joined the Episcopal church, perhaps I could have been poured on as well; but I figured I had had water enough. At 20, I was baptized in the Holy Ghost, and spoke in tongues a few hours later - sang in tongues, actually.