Requirements of Salvation

[5thKingdom]

I made this because there are people preaching in these final years of the world, teaching that
just by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ you can be saved. If it was that easy we wouldn't have scriptures
warning us that few will be saved and that the path to eternal life is narrow, of which few be there that find it.

A holy and sanctified life lived in strict obedience unto the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God,
the Holy Bible, is required of all those that seek the salvation of their souls. This is what the Bible is speaking
of when it says that we must be born again. Born again means to be transformed by God into a new moral life.

John 3:3 KJB
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

If all we had to do was simply believe, demons and the wicked heathen would be saved. For there are
innumerable people in this world that war against God and His saints and know the truth.

James 2:19
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

If all we had to do was believe then this verse below would have no meaning.

Matthew 7:14
"because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

We see from the verse below that they that do the will of God, that keep His commandments and precepts
taught in the word of God, the Holy Bible, will be saved. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ that He
is the true messiah, that He really is God in the flesh, is the absolute first step anyone must take on the
path of salvation. It is the first commandment of God we must obey, to simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
For why would anyone even begin to consider keeping His commandments and obey Him if you didn't believe He
was who He said He was.

Matthew 7:21
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the
will of my Father which is in heaven."

When it says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ it should always be accompanied with the explanation that
obedience, love and duty to and for Him is also required in this faith.

James 2:17
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

We see that faith (trust) in God is really false faith without doing the works of God. What works are these?
These works are the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God. For example, overcoming the world,
and the lusts there of, giving alms, preaching the truth of Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible, encouraging one another, loving one another,
honoring your parents, not hating anyone, not stealing, etc. These are just a few of the many holy commandments
given to us by God in the Holy Bible.

1 John 2:17
"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

If the entire Bible could be summed up in one verse I would choose the following.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

Understanding faith and grace.
Faith means to have trust and hope in God.
Grace means the favor of God.
To have faith (trust) in God you must have a good conscious toward Him.
To have a good conscious toward God you must obey Him.
Faith and obedience go hand in hand.
If you are obedient to God's commandments and precepts He will give you true faith, real trust in Him.
He will show you that you can trust in Him by the protection of His Spirit (the Holy Spirit).
Grace and obedience also go hand in hand.
If you are obedient, the grace (favor) of God will be upon you and all that you do.

If you want to be saved from the damnation of Hell, get in the word of God,
start in the New Testament at the gospel of
Matthew, preferably in a King James Bible (link to PDF of complete KJB below) and read every word and do exactly as God's word teaches you.

(please note PDF files can contain contain viruses or malicious code, I believe the file is safe and have downloaded it myself, but make sure it is also safe for you)
KJB PDF Download (dont worry it does not instantly download)

If the question is "what are the requirements for Salvation"
Then the answer is on "Him that Calleth" [Rom 9]

Jesus said [John 6] that NO MAN can come to Him
unless the Father FIRST "draws them" and ALL MEN
the Father draws "shall come" to Him... and He will
lose NONE of His Sheep.

/

 

[FreeGrace2]

If the question is "what are the requirements for Salvation"
Then the answer is on "Him that Calleth" [Rom 9]

Did you mean Rom 10:13 - for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” The context shows that this "saving" isn't about one's soul, but rather being saved from temporal danger.

The evidence? Glad you asked,

The very next verse (that would be v.14) says;
"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?"

iow, one must be a believer in order to 'call on Him'. Paul then goes on to the fact that they can't believe in the one of whom they have not heard. And then they need a preacher to preach to them.

So, if you are interested in the biblical requirements for salvation, one needs only to look no further than Paul's answer to the Philippian jailer in Acts 16:31
"They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Salvation follows belief in Christ as Savior.

Jesus said [John 6] that NO MAN can come to Him
unless the Father FIRST "draws them" and ALL MEN
the Father draws "shall come" to Him... and He will
lose NONE of His Sheep.

Interesting how you just cite a chapter and leave out specific verses. Was that on purpose?

Let's look at who will come to Him, per John 6.

This is the verse you almost quoted:
v.44 - “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

OK, now let's look at the very next verse:
v.45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Here it is clearly. Everyone "will be taught by God." Then, "those (or ONLY those) who have listened (heard) and learned from Him (the Father) COMES TO ME."

When a teacher is teaching a class, does that mean every student is learning? Of course not. And everyone understands that.

So, it is ONLY those who have listened and learned from the Father will come to Jesus.

 

[5thKingdom]

Did you mean Rom 10:13 -

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done
any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election
might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

We see the PURPOSE of God (according to election)
is not of works, BUT OF HIM THAT CALLETH.



/

 

[5thKingdom]

.
Interesting how you just cite a chapter and leave out specific verses. Was that on purpose? Let's look at who will come to Him, per John 6.
.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father
which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me;
and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.


It is interesting that, when His disciples realized that Jesus
was teaching salvation by election... many of them
abandoned Him [John 6:65-66]

Now WHY in the world would anyone abandon the Son of God?
And the answer is simple: Like most men today, they did
not want a Sovereign God. They wanted a salvation
program where THEY could decide how and when
they could save themselves.


/

 

[5thKingdom]

So, if you are interested in the biblical requirements for salvation, one needs only to look no further than Paul's answer to the Philippian jailer in Acts 16:31 "They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad,
and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ORDAINED
to eternal life believed.


The Bible teaches those who are "ordained" believe and
those who are "chosen" are saved and those who are "elect"
inherit eternal life.


/

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked:
"Did you mean Rom 10:13 -"

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done
any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election
might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

We see the PURPOSE of God (according to election)
is not of works, BUT OF HIM THAT CALLETH.

Did you research the Greek word for "calls"? It is kletos, and means "to invite".

Of course God invites. But you still haven't shown from Scripture that the PURPOSE of election is to salvation.

Do you have any evidence from Scripture?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"So, if you are interested in the biblical requirements for salvation, one needs only to look no further than Paul's answer to the Philippian jailer in Acts 16:31 "They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”"

Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad,
and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ORDAINED
to eternal life believed.

OK, at least I know that you don't agree with Paul's answer at all.

Now, did you research the Greek word wrongly translated 'ordained'? Probably not.

The word is tasso.

Strong's Concordance
tassó: to draw up in order, arrange
Original Word: τάσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: tassó
Phonetic Spelling: (tas'-so)
Definition: to draw up in order, arrange
Usage: (a) I assign, arrange, (b) I determine; mid: I appoint.
HELPS Word-studies
5021 tássō – properly, arrange (put in order); to place in a particular order, appoint; (figuratively) ordain, set in place; "station" (J. Thayer).

5021 /tássō ("place in position, post") was commonly used in ancient military language for "designating" ("appointing, commissioning") a specific status, i.e. arranging (placing) in a deliberate, fixed order.

According to biblehub.com the verb voice is "middle-passive", which indicates that the form of the verb is the same for either voice.

The only way to determine which voice the author meant was to determine it from the text. So, let's do that.

43 When the congregation was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who talked with them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.
45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.
47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: “ ‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

The red words show that a very large crowd gathered to hear Paul the next Sabbath. Given that scenario, it should be obvious that the Gentiles had to line up or arrange themselves (middle voice) to hear Paul. So v.43 gives us the clue we need to determine which voice was meant.

So, looking at the definition again, the Gentiles arranged themselves to hear Paul.

btw, if you are not familiar with Greek voice, the active voice means the subject performs the action of the verb. The middle voice means the subject acts upon themself the action of the verb. The passive voice means the subject is acted upon by another.

Calvinists want to take the verse to mean passive voice, as in God is the One doing the arranging. That's certainly the why they explain the verse.

Yet, Luke doesn't even mention God in the context.

btw, there is another Greek word very commonly translated "ordained" or "appointed". Both "horizo" and "tasso" are used 8 times in the NT.

In every case where Luke conveys that it is God doing the appointing or ordaining, God is mentioned.

But don't take my word for it. Let Scripture do all the talking.

Does Acts 13:48 teach that certain individuals are ordained or appointed to eternal life?

Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for [tasso] eternal life believed. NIV, NASB, NKJV

“ordained to” KJV, ASV

Strong’s definition of “tasso”: addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set

Now look at how “tasso” is translated in 1 Cor 16:15:

1 Cor 16:15
You know that the household of Stephanas were the first converts in Achaia, and they have devoted [tasso] themselves to the service of the saints. I urge you, brothers, NIV, NASB, NKJV

“addicted” KJV
“set themselves” ASV

The meaning of “tasso” does not carry an intrinsic theological meaning. Ex: A drug addict is “devoted” to his drugs. A politician appointed to office is “addicted” to the position/power.

We now consider another word used frequently by Luke in his writings, which does have an intrinsic theological meaning, “horizo”.

Acts 10:42
He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed [horizo] as judge of the living and the dead. NIV, NASB “ordained” NKJV, ASV, KJV

Luke 22:22
The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him."
NIV “determined” NKJV, KJV, NASB, ASV

Acts 2:23
This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose [horizo] and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. NIV “determined purpose” NKJV “predeterminate plan” NASB, “determinate counsel” KJV, ASV

Acts 11:29
The disciples, each according to his ability, decided [horizo] to provide help for the brothers living in Judea.
NIV “determined” NKJV, KJV, NASB, ASV

Acts 17:26
From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined [horizo] the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
NIV, NKJV, KJV, NASB, ASV

Acts 17:31
For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. [horizo] He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." NIV, NASB “ordained” NKJV, KJV, ASV

Rom 1:4
and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared [horizo] with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. NIV, NKJV, NASB, KJV, ASV

Heb 4:7
Therefore God again set [horizo] a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." NIV “designates” NKJV “fixes” NASB “defines” ASV “limits” KJV

“tasso” is found in the following verses, with the various translations:

Matt 28:16 “appointed” ASV, KJV “told to go” NIV “designated” NASB
Jesus told the disciples where to go

Luke 7:8 “under authority” NIV “placed under authority” NASV, NKJV “set under” ASV, KJV
Centurion explaining to Jesus he was a man under authority

Acts 13:48 “appointed” NASB, NIV, NKJV “ordained” KJV, ASV
Believing Gentiles being compared to unbelieving Jews: Jews unworthy, Gentiles devoted

Acts 15:2 “appointed” NIV, ASV “determined” NKJV, NASB, KJV
Paul and Barnabas appointed to go to Jerusalem

Acts 22:10 “assigned” NIV “appointed” NKJV, KJV, NASB, ASV
Paul relating Jesus telling him on Damascus road to go to Damascus and be told his assignment

Acts 28:23 “arranged” NIV “appointed” ASV, KJV, NKJV “set” NASB
People arranged to meet with Paul on a certain day to hear him explain the gospel

Rom 13:1 “established” NIV, NASB “appointed” NKJV “ordained” KJV, ASV
God has established all authorities

1 Cor 16:15 “devoted” NASB, NKJV, NIV “addicted” KJV “set” ASV
Household of Stephanas, first converts in Achaia, devoted themselves to the service of thesaints

Only Rom 13:1 and Acts 22:10 connote a theological “appointing” by God

“tasso” 8 uses in NT, only 2 have theological meaning

“horizo” 8 uses in NT, 7 have theological meaning

Luke uses “tasso” 5 times, only 1 requires theological meaning [Paul x 2, Matt x 1]

Luke uses “horizo” 6 times, 5 have a theological meaning [Paul x 1, Heb x 1]

Conclusion: Acts 13:48 should be translated:

“When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord, and all who were inclined to, or disposed to eternal life believed.”

because the context (v.42-48) simply contrasts unbelieving Jews who were “unworthy of eternal life” (v.46) with the believing Gentiles who were “inclined to eternal life” (v.48). The use of “tasso” avoids making a theological statement. If one was being made relative to ordaining to eternal life, “horizo” would have been far more appropriate to use.

The Bible teaches those who are "ordained" believe and
those who are "chosen" are saved and those who are "elect"
inherit eternal life.

See above for the truth. There are NO verses that support any of the 3 points here.

Oh, the 3rd point is correct. But don't make the mistake that election is for 'inheriting eternal life'. The truth is that "the elect", or "chosen believers" will inherit eternal life.

 

[5thKingdom]

But you still haven't shown from Scripture that the PURPOSE
of election is to salvation. Do you have any evidence from Scripture?

I agree with you the Bible teaches that God "invites" many.
Here is a picture of the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"


Mat 22:10-14
So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered
together all as many as they found, both bad and good:
[both saved "wheat" and unsaved "tares"] and the wedding
was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to
see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a
wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how
camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment?
And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants,
Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him
into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.


MANY are "called" (invited) by the Gospel
But FEW are "chosen" to be saved.


Now... why are FEW CHOSEN?
Because NO MAN can come to Christ unless the Father
first "draws" them. And ALL MEN the Father draws "shall come"
to Jesus and He will lose NONE of "His Sheep".

Remember, because of Adam's original sin ALL MEN are born
spiritually DEAD. And NO MAN (no, not one) will ever seek
God [Rom 3:10-12] unless the Father "draws" them.


Now you say (and I quote)
But you still haven't shown from Scripture that the PURPOSE
of election is to salvation. Do you have any evidence from Scripture?


First, you moved the goalpost... my task was NOT to show
the PURPOSE of election is to salvation... my task was to
show the PURPOSE of election is to show salvation is NOT
of works ("accepting" God) but of "Him that Calleth"
And I showed that in Romans 9 and John 6... it's
also shown in Romans 8 and MANY other verses.


Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done
any good or evil, that the PURPOSE of God according to
ELECTION might stand, not of works, [not by "acccepting"]
but of HIM THAT CALLETH


Romans 9 shows several examples of how salvation is
the RESULT of God deciding who receives mercy and
who does not.


It shows that men are "elected" before they are born
(while others are not). It shows that God "hardens"
some men (others He draws). It shows that God
CREATES some men to be "vessels of mercy" and
He CREATES others to be "vessels of destruction".


And, IN EACH EXAMPLE given, God emphasizes that
salvation is NOT the choice of men... it's HIS CHOICE.
Why did you not address Romans 9?


I showed you the SAME teaching in John 6...
WHY did you not address those verses? Ignoring
Scripture does NOT negate it and is NOT the "fruit"
of saved "wheat/sheep".


Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father
which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up
at the last day.


Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me;
and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.


I think I already directed you to the fact that, when Christ's
disciples realized He was teaching salvation by ELECTION
then many of them abandoned Him [John 6:65-66]


Now, WHY in the world would anyone abandon the Son of God?
And the answer is obvious: They (like most men today) did not
WANT a Sovereign God that chooses who He will save and who
He will not save. They did not WANT a God that creates some
men to be "vessels of mercy" and others to be "vessels of
destruction"... they wanted a salvation program where MEN
get to decide how/when/where they will be saved. They
(like most men today) wanted a plan where MEN are Sovereign.
Why did you not address John 6?


We see this same teaching in Romans 8:
ALL MEN that are "called" according to His PURPOSE
He did "foreknow" (or "elect")

And ALL MEN that He elected He did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

And ALL MEN that He predestinated He did "call",
or "draw" to Jesus.

And ALL MEN He "called" He did "justify" and "glorify"
This is the Biblical teaching of "election"... to teach the
PURPOSE of God in salvation is on "Him that Calleth".
To teach that God is Sovereign... not man.


Rom 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that
love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed
to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:
and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


You said:
Conclusion: Acts 13:48 should be translated:
“When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the
word of the Lord, and all who were inclined to, or disposed
to eternal life believed.”


Yes... those who are "disposed" or "elected" or "ordained"
to eternal life God will (1) "draw" to Jesus and (2) "predestinate"
to be conformed to the image of Jesus and (3) they all will be
"justified" and (4) they all will be "glorified".


BOTTOM LINE:
We are following different Gospels.

In my Gospel God is Sovereign and chooses to create
some men to be "vessels of mercy" and other men to be
"vessels of destruction"

In your gospel MAN is Sovereign and chooses whether HE
will "accept" God or whether He will "reject" God. In your
gospel Man is more powerful than God.

Moreover, in my Gospel Jesus PAID for the sins of "His Sheep"
it is a done deal... He is our substitute and there is no
condemnation for any of His elect.

In your gospel Jesus PAID for the sins of every man ever
created (even the "vessels of destruction") and those in
the Lake of Fire are either (1) paying for the SAME SINS
that Jesus already paid... making the His Atonement of no
effect or (2) they are paying for the SINGLE SIN of not
"accepting" Jesus.

Since we are following different Gospels there is no reason
to continue this conversation. You reject what I say about
the Bible teaching that GOD is Sovereign (you intentionally
ignore John 6 and Romans 8 and 9).

And I reject the notion that MAN is Sovereign and man
decides to either "accept" or "reject" God.

Thanks for your time.


/

 

[FreeGrace2]

I agree with you the Bible teaches that God "invites" many.
Here is a picture of the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 22:10-14
So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered
together all as many as they found, both bad and good:
[both saved "wheat" and unsaved "tares"] and the wedding
was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to
see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a
wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how
camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment?
And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants,
Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him
into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

No, this is about the wedding supper for the Groom. It's not about getting into heaven.

BOTTOM LINE:
We are following different Gospels.

Well, you sure got that one right. I'm following the biblical gospel.

In my Gospel God is Sovereign and chooses to create
some men to be "vessels of mercy" and other men to be
"vessels of destruction"

I'm not surprised at your view of Rom 9:22,23. But v.22 doesn't say "create vessels of destruction". It says "katartizo", which means to "complete, mend, repair, adjust to fit".

In your gospel MAN is Sovereign and chooses whether HE
will "accept" God or whether He will "reject" God. In your
gospel Man is more powerful than God.

Again, you are showing your compete misunderstanding of the gospel. Salvation and eternal life are described as gifts. Gifts are given. In order to possess an offered gift, one MUST receive the gift. Taking a gift is really passive. It's non-meritorious. But your gospel doesn't understand any of this.

 

[5thKingdom]

No, this is about the wedding supper for the Groom. It's not about getting into heaven.

You think the wedding supper is NOT in heaven??
That is just hilarious. WHERE exactly do you think
it happen... in New York?

.

 

[5thKingdom]

I'm not surprised at your view of Rom 9:22,23. But v.22 doesn't say "create vessels of destruction". It says "katartizo", which means to "complete, mend, repair, adjust to fit".

(1) I do not see the word "create" in Rom 9:22

Rom 9:22
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

(2) And the POINT is that the "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction"
cannot "accept" or "receive" Jesus as you pretend.
They cannot be saved.

The Bible is FULL of examples of people who can NEVER
be saved... so your fantasy that all men can "accept" or "receive"
Jesus contradicts Scripture and, therefore, is already PROVEN
to be false.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Again, you are showing your compete misunderstanding of the gospel. Salvation and eternal life are described as gifts. Gifts are given. In order to possess an offered gift, one MUST receive the gift. Taking a gift is really passive. It's non-meritorious. But your gospel doesn't understand any of this.

Again you miss the POINT.

Question: Is this "GIFT" you speak of given to ALL MEN
or only those elected before the foundation of the earth?

Second Question (and I really want you to answer this)
Did Jesus PAY for the sins of everyone ever born or did He
PAY for the sins of "His Sheep" (the elect)?

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Again, you are showing your compete misunderstanding of the gospel. Salvation and eternal life are described as gifts. Gifts are given. In order to possess an offered gift, one MUST receive the gift. Taking a gift is really passive. It's non-meritorious. But your gospel doesn't understand any of this.

No... that is not true.

You pretend that men must REACH OUT to "receive" this gift.

But the Bible teaches this gift is given without men acting.

In your mind a man is sitting in a chair and God offers a gift
and men "receive" that give by reaching out (which is a "work")

But the Bible teaches otherwise. That man is sitting in the chair
and God PLACES THE GIFT in his lap... with NO ACTION from
the man.

In your gospel MEN decide to become saved.
In the True Gospel GOD decides who He will save.

.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You think the wedding supper is NOT in heaven??

This is what I actually said: "It's not about getting into heaven."

Do you not understand this?

That is just hilarious. WHERE exactly do you think
it happen... in New York?

Of course it occurs in heaven. But the parable isn't about getting into heaven.

 

[FreeGrace2]

(1) I do not see the word "create" in Rom 9:22

No, it doesn't. So, why did you say "create vessels of wrath" then?

(2) And the POINT is that the "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction"
cannot "accept" or "receive" Jesus as you pretend.
They cannot be saved.

Did I say they could?

The Bible is FULL of examples of people who can NEVER
be saved... so your fantasy that all men can "accept" or "receive"
Jesus contradicts Scripture and, therefore, is already PROVEN
to be false.

Since Jesus died for EVERYONE, it is obvious to every reasonable person that everyone is able to believe. But many CHOOSE not to.

The ones who reject "can't" believe because they refuse to do so. It's a self-limited inability.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Again, you are showing your compete misunderstanding of the gospel. Salvation and eternal life are described as gifts. Gifts are given. In order to possess an offered gift, one MUST receive the gift. Taking a gift is really passive. It's non-meritorious. But your gospel doesn't understand any of this."

Again you miss the POINT.

Is this your best response to what I posted??

Question: Is this "GIFT" you speak of given to ALL MEN
or only those elected before the foundation of the earth?

The gift of salvation is given ONLY to those who believe.

Second Question (and I really want you to answer this)
Did Jesus PAY for the sins of everyone ever born or did He
PAY for the sins of "His Sheep" (the elect)?

Easy peasy. He died for everyone. That means He paid for the sins of everyone ever born.

And I expect that you don't believe that at all.

His payment for everyone's sins resulted in the purchase of the gift of eternal life for everyone. But one has to receive the gift in order to possess the gift.

It's received by believing.

John 1:12 - Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

I wonder if you believe this verse.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You pretend that men must REACH OUT to "receive" this gift.

Where do your fantasies come from? Where have I pretended anything? You've got quite the imagination there.

And where did I say that men "must reach out"? However, what do you do with Acts 17:26-27?
26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.
27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

But the Bible teaches this gift is given without men acting.

They receive the gift when they believe the Savior. John 1:12 says so.

In your mind a man is sitting in a chair and God offers a gift
and men "receive" that give by reaching out (which is a "work")

You really do have quite an imagination "in your mind".

But the Bible teaches otherwise. That man is sitting in the chair
and God PLACES THE GIFT in his lap... with NO ACTION from
the man.

OK, tell me to whom God places the gift.

In your gospel MEN decide to become saved.

Why is that a problem for you? When a person hears the gospel (good news) and realizes that Jesus Christ died on the cross for them, paid for their sins and gives the gift of eternal life to those who believe in Him so that they will avoid hell and live with God in heaven for eternity, YOU BET that's the right decision.

When you hear something that is claimed to be true, what is the basis for your believing it to be true?

iow, do you choose to believe what is true or false when you hear something, or is your belief system on "auto pilot"? If so, who's making the choice for you?

In the True Gospel GOD decides who He will save.

Absolutely!! Finally we agree on something.

1 Cor 1:21 supports your claim here (a first!).
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

 

[5thKingdom]

This is what I actually said: "It's not about getting into heaven."
Of course it occurs in heaven. But the parable isn't about getting into heaven.

You have just built a STRAWMAN.
I never said the wedding feast is "about getting into heaven"
So your response above is just a deflection to save face.

I said the wedding feast is IN HEAVEN.

/

 

[5thKingdom]

No, it doesn't. So, why did you say "create vessels of wrath" then?

Simple question for you:

Does Romans 9 teach that God create both
"vessels of mercy" (those who He saves) and
"vessels of destruction" (those who He has not intention of saving)?

Yes or No?

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Since Jesus died for EVERYONE, it is obvious to every reasonable person that everyone is able to believe..

If Jesus died for everyone... then everyone would be saved
because their sins are PAID.

Now...
I understand Jesus died for the world (both Jew and Gentile)
but He did not PAY for the sins of everyone ever born.

(1) If Jesus PAID for the sins of "His Sheep" then ALL of
His sheep will be saved... since their sins were PAID.

(2) If Jesus PAID for the sins of EVERYONE (your false gospel)
then one of two things are true. Either (a) those in the Lake
of Fire must PAY for the SAME SINS that Jesus Paid... making
His Atonement of no effect or (b) those in the Lake are just
paying for the SINGLE SIN of not "accepting Christ... and that
notion contradicts the Bible which teaches men pay for their
sin (every idle word - and even evil thoughts).

So... in MY GOSPEL Jesus PAID for "His Sheep" and it's done.
There is no condemnation for the elect because the debt is paid.

But... in YOUR GOSPEL (a) the Atonement was conditional on
whether man "accepts" Jesus. You are saying that Jesus
PAID for their sins - but then that payment is revoked when
someone does not believe or (b) you are saying that those
in the Lake are paying for the SINGLE SIN of not "accepting"
Jesus.. when the Bible is clear man pay for EVERY sin
(every idle word and even sinful thoughts)

My Gospel is the Gospel of the Bible.
Your gospel was declared heresy by the early church
(when it was called Semi-Pelagianism) and by the
Protestant Reformer when it was called Arminianism.

If you study some church history you will see that
I am telling you the truth.

.