The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, has set us free from the law of sin and death?

oikonomia

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Paul is talking about the "LAW" of the Spirit of Life, this is the "LAW" that was in Christ Jesus.
I too can emphasis any word in the verse.
Paul Is talking about the "SPIRIT" of life.
Paul is talking about the Spirit "OF" life.
Paul is talking about the law of the Spirit of "LIFE."

All the words are important.

Opposed to the "LAW" of Sin and Death, which is in our Flesh. You omitted this part of the topic as your post moved along.
No I do not ignore this. That the law of the Spirit of life is stronger than the law of sin and death in the flesh I surely spoke to
somewhere in this discusssion. When I used the law of gravity as an apt illustration I said something like Christ is a stronger Person.

I can not make EVERY point in EVERY post. So be fair.

I can agree that spirits flow like water which influences everything it touches.
Good. But you make spirits plural for some reason. There is One Spirit. I did say the Lord said "rivers of living water".
But "there is one Spirit"

You see the eternal Spirit before Christ's resurrection just contained the divinity of God.
After His resurrection the Spirit contained the human Jesus of Nazareth.

The Spirit as the Third Person of the Trinity was from even Genesis when He brooded upon the face of the deep.

and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters. (Gen. 1:2)

So He is indeed always ways "and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters. (Gen. 1:2b)

The Spirit that was not YET was the Spirit containing not only the divinity of God but the humanity of
the resurrected God-man the Lord Jesus. The word "given" was supplied by KJV editors.

I was taught and am persuaded that it is better rendered "the Spirit was not yet" as the Recovery Version has it.

He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.
But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive;
for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified. (John 7:38,39)

But Paul is speaking about "Walking" in something.
It is about walking in a Person. It is about living a grafted and mingled life with a Person.
This Person is now "a life giving Spirit". (1 Cor. 15:45)

As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him, (Col. 2:6) -
walking in the Lord Jesus.
Aka - Walking by the Spirit.

But I say, Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh. (Gal. 5:16)

He mentions the "LAW" of the Spirit of Life, that was in Christ Jesus. Well who is the Spirit of Life? In your religion, is God not a Spirit, and is HE not the Spirit of Life??
The Spirit of life is Christ Jesus.
Below He used these designations in a seamlessly interchangeable way - The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ is Christ.

But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. (Rom. 8:9,10)

Doesn't the Jesus "of the Bible" say God is in Him?
Yes. And God is now in all those who receive the Lord Jesus. What a salvation!
Doesn't that mean the Spirit of God is in Him?
Yes. And He is in the Spirit of God. And the Triune God has been dispensed into the believers.
As we see the One indwelling the believers in Romans 8:9-11 is -
The Spirit of God,
The Spirit of Christ,
Christ,
The Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead.

And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you. (v.11)

So when Paul says "For the "law" of the Spirit of life "in Christ Jesus" Paul is speaking about God's LAW that was in Christ Jesus. Or does your religion teach that Jesus "Walked" in a different Law.
The BIBLE teaches that the Spirit of life is the life of God. And the law of that Spirit is the law of His divine / human life.

The analogy of gravity is good. For with our turning our mind to the mingled regenerated human spirit where the Spirit of Jesus
Who is the Lord is "one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) with our spirit causes the life to FLOW. And this flow is like a river flowing because of gravity ever downward.

He is spontneous, free, regulating, leading, moving our mind, emotion, and will to walk in the realm of a living God within us.

This law of the Spirit of life liberates us from religion as well as the sin in our flesh law.
We do have a responsibility. That is to TURN our mind off of our self and onto the Spirit indwelling us.
This requires practice, building up the habit, trial and error. It is a life long learning process for the Christian.

Since Jesus walked before us with the same kind of relationship with His Father, He is now in us
to be our everything, anything, our willing, and the working. We just need to take Him in faith that He can be
every item we need, including our consecration.

I know what I am talking about. The Lord is recovering the governing vision as taking Christ as our everything.
Then we can experience grace, and more grace on that grace, and more grace on that grace - grace upon grace.

So there is a juxtaposition in the New Testament between the law of God and the grace of God.

For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
For the law was given through Moses; grace and reality came through Jesus Christ. (John 1:16,17)


That is right. But this freedom is unleashed by our setting our mind on the spirit where the Spirit is one with us within.
The human spirit is the real holy of holies - the innermost chamber of our being. We have to learn to discern it and set our
mind upon that realm.

Many "stumble" occasionally on that realm. But they are not sure what it is that caused them to sense the Lord's presence.
It could be a song they sang. It could be a genuine prayer they uttered or a passage that particularly brought them to God's presence.

The crucial thing is that rather than accidently now and them find ourselves in the Spirit, we need to build up the habit
of turning to the Spirit and lingering in that realm. We need to WALK in that realm step by step.

It is not beyond any Christian. It is not that hard. And it must become almost unconscious after much practice.
Keep reading. This is important.


This freedom of being set free by the law of the Spirit of life gets stronger as we deny ourselves and enjoy the Spirit of
divine life deep within us. Then it becomes so normal that we not too aware of Him directly but we are aware when we have LOST
for a moment His presence.

The signal is internal - "life and peace". It is to feel comfort, calm, stability, warmth, refreshment.
The sense of death when our mind is not on the Spirit in our spirit is a sense of emptiness, vanity, uneasiness, dryness, staleness.

IT IS NOT A SENSE OF RIGHT AND WRONG primarily.
It is the sense of the Lord's face smiling upon your heart. His pleasure means YOUR pleasure.

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. (Rom. 8:6)

So then, there is no condemnation to men who are "walking" in God's Law. Please answer this question? What "LAW" was in Zacharias and Simeon? Did they not walk in the same "LAW" of the Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus?
I don't think Zacharias's experience is like that of the Christian.
John 6:39 says "the Spirit was not yet because Jesus was not yet glorified".

This is not to under appreciate Zacharias or Simeon. But what we have now they did not have, whatever they had.
The all-inclusive Spirit of Christ Jesus with its liberating power from within "was not yet."

I do not envy or look back to the piety of Simeon and Zacharias. They had their portion and we in the new covenant proper have ours
as the indwelling of the Spirit of life - Christ Jesus the incarnated, crucified, risen and indwelling divine Person.

Do not suggest that what Zacharias and Simeon had was identical to what Paul taught in Romans chapter 8.
We can learn from the them. We can benefit from elements of their life before God.
But the Spirit indwelling us is beyond their enjoyment.

Here is another perfect example of taking part of one verse, separating it from the rest of the Holy scriptures, and then creating doctrines of man from it.
This is an very bad criticism unless you can take any one of the verses I referenced above and state why we should not
take them in faith.

I have quoted not the entire New Testament. But like the Lord Himself or His apostles I have referred to a passage.
You do it and it is ok. Why do you complain when I do it?

Unless you can specifically tell me how my combining a verse here and there accumulates to a false teaching, I will continue
to refer to passages which portray the truth.

There are men who call Jesus Lord, who preach that the Holy Spirit on Zacharias, the Wise men, Simeon, Anna is a different Spirit that was on Caleb or the Church of God in Acts?
Now in the book of Acts - this Spirit which John said was not YET was in existence.
Jesus had been resurrected and entered into His glory.

Compare:

But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified. (John 7:39)

Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and enter into His glory? (Luke 24:26)


You may object to this because surely the NT speaks of them seeing Christ's glory or Him being glorified morally
before His death and resurrection. I would not argue with that if the point was made.

However, I would teach that the ultimate glory is Christ becomming in a form in which He could be
imparted Himself into man for His multiplication, duplication, and enlargement. And that is what is happening in the
book of Acts. He has enter into the glory of being expressed in His church and in the members of His Body.


That is correct. They moved by the Spirit prophesied of the grace that was to COME UNTO YOU.
Well, in Romans 8 the apostle teaches about that coming grace in terms of the law of the Spirit of life freeing us in Christ Jesus.

No, that specific experience of new testament grace was not what Simeon and Zacharias had. And the result of
insisting that they had the same thing undermines the uniqueness of Christ and His ministry.

We can appreciate ALL of the obedience of saints of the past before the Lord became a life giving Spirit.
We can appreciate even the Law of Moses.
But we should not exalt the Law of Moses to be equal to Christ.
We should not exalt the Law of God to be above the Son of God (as some do if not you imo)

The words out of mouth of Jesus teach us that the least in the kingdom of the heavens - the prevailing church life of normal victory,
is greater than all the prophets including John the Baptist.

Truly I say to you, Among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John the Baptist, yet he who is least in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he. (Matt. 11;11)

Our relationship to Christ is closer than that of Simeon or Zacharias or even John the Baptist.
We have the Lord Jesus living in us. And that makes the Christian's experience greater than that of any Old Testament saint - period.
He who is least in the kingdom the origin of which is from heaven "kingdom of the heavens" is greater because Christ is WITHIN him.

This verse does say "the Spirit of Christ which was in them". And I would never disbelieve or change it.

But this is not the Spirit of Jesus Christ the man who died and rose.
The FUNCTION of God as the Anointed One or the Christ is eternal.

Why didn't Peter say "the Spirit of JESUS which was in them"?
But the Christ in a sense was there in the Triune God even in Moses's day.

By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter,
Choosing rather to be ill-treated with the people of God than to have the temporary enjoyment of sin,
Considering the reproach of the Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he looked away to the reward. (Heb. 11:24-26)

You see "the Christ" was operating function wise in the Exodus.
But the "the boundiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:19) was not YET (John 7:39) at the time of Moses . . . Simeon, Zacharias or John the Baptist

Now your other points are NOT [edited] ignored. That is all the time I can give right now.
We should not think the new testament church experience is identical to the Old Testament saints.
We can learn from their examples quite much. But we have received something more than what they had.

They may have this Spirit of Jesus for all I know NOW in Paradise for all I know. But Hebrews says all those witnesses are cheering us on as a cloud of former faithful witnesses to what THEY had. They are waiting of their completion to come with our maturity.

And these all, having obtained a good testimony through their faith, did not obtain the promise,
Because God has provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect. (Heb. 11:39,40)


I'll have to continue latter.
 
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oikonomia

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Studyman this was a typo I corrected. I intended to write that your other comments were NOT ignored.

---------------------------------
Now your other points are NOT [edited] ignored. That is all the time I can give right now.
---------------------------------
 
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oikonomia

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The Holy Spirit was upon him as He was opon many of the prophets.
But he did not have within his human spirit the all-inclusive life giving Spirit of the resurrected God-man Jesus.

This righteousness piety of Simeon was before the Spirit was inclusive of the human living, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
Especially in John's Gospel he emphasizes the Jesus breathed into His disciples and told them to receive the Holy Spirit.

Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be to you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.
And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. (John 20:21,22)


It is from this moment that he who is
least in the kingdom of heavens is greater than all the holy men and women who
went before this moment.


Truly I say to you, Among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John the Baptist, yet he who is least in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he (John the Baptist). (Matt. 11:11)

The closer you are to Christ the Great One the greater people are. Since He imparted Himself into man
the closeness is unparalleled. Simeon, John the Baptist, and other pre-resurrection saints were not that close as the
reborn saints of the church.

Was Peter not also inspired by the Spirit of God which was in him, that revealed to him who Jesus was?

Acts 5: 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Has this not always been the truth about God?
Peter wrote under inspiration about the saints AFTER . . . the resurrection of Jesus and His ascension, that they obeyed the Gospel
and therefore the all-inclusive Spirit of Jesus Christ.

The relationship in the new covenant is not the same as before the grace and reality came through Jesus Christ.

Because men select one sentence from the bible and separated it from the rest of the Holy scriptures, they are promoting the religious philosophy that the Spirit of the Rock, the Holy Spirit didn't exist until a bunch of religious men who professed to know God, killed His Son.
The eternal Spirit is from eternity. I selected choice passages to prove this.
The other side of the truth is that at the resurrection of Jesus that God-man became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)

There are two critical steps the Triune God passed through in order to redeem us and dispense His life into us.
1.) The Word became flesh (John 1:14)
2.) The last Adam became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)

With these to BECAMES God went forth out of eternity to impart His life into man.
When the scriptural truth is that God has given His Spirit to "Everyone" who would humble themselves in obedience to Him.
That is everyone who receives the Lord Jesus Christ the crucified and resurrected God-man.

And obedience to the Holy Spirit who now contains the human attributes of the man Jesus will spread, increase, expand and be
magnified in the soul of that one.

Thus Paul had Christ and wanted only to GAIN Christ more.

But moreover I also count all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account of whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith, . . .

Not that I have already obtained or am already perfected, but I pursue, if even I may lay hold of that for which I also have been laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brothers, I do not account of myself to have laid hold; but one thing I do: Forgetting the things which are behind and stretching forward to the things which are before, (Phil. 3:8,9; 12,13)

And the First Church of God, under God's New Priest, receiving God's Spirit for obeying God as Jesus instructed, therefore the Christ was Glorified in them, just as HE was in Zacharias.
He was not indwelling Zacharias. But the Holy Spirit did influence him being upon him.

He prophesied which was a glory to Christ Jesus. But the work of Christ Jesus had not yet been accomplished.
So this was glorifying by way of predicting and foretelling under the power of the Spirit of God.
I speak in my analogy of the common law all rivers obey - to flow downward as gravity's law pulls them down.

Christ the eternal God become a man and become the life giving Spirit surely flows down to man within man.
He is the most High. And He has to flow down to His creatures.

A picture is worth much in the book of Revelation. In chapter four we see the throne of the Creator. And before His throne
are the seven Spirits of God representing the moving and working Spirit of God.


And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God; (Rev. 4:5)

Then in the next chapter when the Lamb, the Redeeming God-man arrives to be inagurated in heaven
the seven Spirits of God have seemed to have PICKED UP something. They are now the very eyes of the Lamb.

And I saw in the midst of the throne . . . a Lamb standing as having just been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. (Rev. 5:6)

You cannot seperate the eyes of a person from that person. His eyes are the window into his soul.
The eternal Spirit has had an added "ingredient" to Him. That added ingredient is the human living death and resurrection
of the Redeemer - the Lamb of God Jesus Christ.

He first brought God into man in His incarnation.
Then He brought man into God in His resurrection.

His resurrection uplifted human nature deifying the flesh and human nature God put on in incarnation.
This Spirit was not yet until Jesus was glorified.
The seven Spirits of God was added to. The seven Spirits of God is God compounded with the humanity of Christ in resurrection.

Such a Spirit was not yet for Zacharias, Simeon, John the Baptist, Mary before the resurrection, or any of the Old Testament saints.

But Paul is advocating the "LAW" of a Specific river. The psalms you posted shows this as well.
You know the Old Testament speaks prophetically time and time again as to the future.
So the water that gladdens the city of God ultimately is the river of God dispensed into man.

Tell me why Moses was not allowed into the Promised Land?
Let's talk about the symbolisim of Moses striking the rock and then speaking to the rock that the water
would flow out.

Please explain to me why God disciplined Moses and Aaron so seriously when they struck the rock the second time.
This will helpful to the discussion.

Yes, that is what is written. My practice is to Amen the word of God WHATEVER He says. I trust my Father.

God did indeed desribe Himself as the water to pre-new testament saints.
Like in Jeremiah God lamented that they had forsaken Him the fountain of living water.

For My people have committed two evils: / They have forsaken Me, / The fountain of living waters, / To hew out for themselves cisterns, / Broken cisterns, / Which hold no water. (Jer. 2;13)

Sure, God portrays Himself to Old Testament saints as a river, as a fountain of living water.
The same God says "For the Spirit was not yet because Jesus was not yet glorified".

I trust God who has uttered both tremendous truths.

Don't worry about me in this regard.
That Rock was Christ in typology.
That Rock was Christ in symbolism, as a sign.
The same chapter says . . .

Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our admonition,
unto whom the ends of the ages have come. (v. 10)


We certainly must learn from their example. But there was and old covenant and a new covenant.
The new covenant is about the indwelling of the Redeemer, the resurrected God-man who is the life imparting Spirit.

It is so profound that many signs, types, symbilisms were used to convey the progressive moving on of
God's eternal purpose- to dispense Himself into man for the mingling of God and man.
 
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Studyman

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I too can emphasis any word in the verse.
Paul Is talking about the "SPIRIT" of life.
Paul is talking about the Spirit "OF" life.
Paul is talking about the law of the Spirit of "LIFE."

All the words are important.


Yes, this is why I reply to posts, because the philosophy adopted and are promoted cannot be supported if "Every" Word of Scripture is considered.

Here are your words again.

"I believe flowing water is used to signify the Spirit of life because God's life within us
is so spontaneous and constantly moving in and though the believer who taps into his spirit. Jesus stood and cried on the last
day of the feast to the inwardly thirsty people "

But Paul is speaking to the ""LAW" of the Spirit of life. There is a spirit in everyone who is alive. In your sentence above, you have moved away from the point of Paul's teaching all together by omitting the word "law".

Paul says;

22 For I delight in the "law" of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the "law" of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank "God" (The Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus) through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the "law" of God; but with the flesh the "law" of sin.

For the "law" of the Spirit of life "in" Christ Jesus (This would be the Law of the Spirit of God who resides in Christ, Yes?) hath made me free from the "law" of sin and death.

As he also says in another place.

Rom. 2: 13 (For not the hearers of the "law" are just before God, but the doers of the "law" shall be justified.

Why is this important? Paul teaches this as well in Rom. 6.

16 Know ye not, that to whom "ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom "ye obey"; whether of sin (Transgression of the "Law" of the Spirit of life,(God) that was IN Christ Jesus) unto death, or of obedience (To the Law of the Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus) unto righteousness?

This is the Gospel of Christ.

John 5: 14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, "who walk" not after the (Law of the) flesh (SIN), but after the (Law of the) Spirit.(of Life that was IN Christ Jesus)

Ez. 18: 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Gen. 3: 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


The scriptures flow like a river of living water. They were written for our admonition, "upon whom the end of the worlds are come". "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

What I advocate for is trusting Scriptures for knowledge, not cherry picking them in order to preserve or promote a popular religious talking point or religious tradition or religious doctrines of men.
 
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Studyman

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Good. But you make spirits plural for some reason. There is One Spirit. I did say the Lord said "rivers of living water".
But "there is one Spirit"

Oh My goodness, who taught you there was only ONE spirit in the garden God placed us in?

Matt. 12: 43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

You don't know this, and yet you are preaching to others?
I don't think Zacharias's experience is like that of the Christian.
John 6:39 says "the Spirit was not yet because Jesus was not yet glorified".

This is not to under appreciate Zacharias or Simeon. But what we have now they did not have, whatever they had.
The all-inclusive Spirit of Christ Jesus with its liberating power from within "was not yet."

I do not envy or look back to the piety of Simeon and Zacharias. They had their portion and we in the new covenant proper have ours
as the indwelling of the Spirit of life - Christ Jesus the incarnated, crucified, risen and indwelling divine Person.

Do not suggest that what Zacharias and Simeon had was identical to what Paul taught in Romans chapter 8.
We can learn from the them. We can benefit from elements of their life before God.
But the Spirit indwelling us is beyond their enjoyment.

This is your religion, and you are here to promote it. But for me to be converted to your religion, I would have to reject the Biblical fact that Israel was given the Gospel of Christ but didn't believe in it, while Caleb did. And what did Caleb do? He "walked" in the "LAW" of the Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus. This is undeniable Biblical Fact.

Num. 14: 22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it: 24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Why was he not condemned along with the rest of Israel?

Because, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them (Caleb) which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made Caleb free from the law of sin and death."

Some religious men might say, "Christ wasn't around in Caleb's time". But Paul teaches the opposite.

1 Cor. 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Why did Zacharias have God's Spirit of Truth regarding who the Messiah was, but the Pharisees didn't?

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

What about the Pharisees?

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Why was Zacharias and Simeon not condemned by God along with the Pharisees?

Because There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, "who walk" not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made Zacharias free from the law of sin and death.

Why did Caleb have a different Spirit on him that dwelled on others around him?

Acts 5: 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

So your religion, "the Spirit indwelling in you is beyond Caleb's or Zacharias's enjoyment".

But when I turn away from this world's religions, and study what is actually written, I find that Abraham Glorified Jesus.

John 8: 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Why did God Bless Abraham? God said it was "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws". So why then, did God spare Abraham, but destroy Sodom?

Because, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, "who walk" not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life "in Christ Jesus" hath made Abraham free from the law of sin and death.

It's all right there in your own bible. It's just that men have listened to the other voice in the garden God placed us in. It is my hope that you will consider ALL that is written, as opposed to the perpetual self-justification that we are trained to continue in.
 
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Studyman

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The Holy Spirit was upon him as He was opon many of the prophets.
But he did not have within his human spirit the all-inclusive life giving Spirit of the resurrected God-man Jesus.

That is a religious philosophy of this world. But as I said, I'm not interested in popular religious traditions, rather, what the scriptures actually say.




This righteousness piety of Simeon was before the Spirit was inclusive of the human living, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
Especially in John's Gospel he emphasizes the Jesus breathed into His disciples and told them to receive the Holy Spirit.

Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be to you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.
And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. (John 20:21,22)

Again, you are selecting one verse, and separating it from the rest of the Bible,

Jesus also said;

John 17: 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had "with thee" before the world was.

Your assertion that this same Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus, couldn't "Breath" the Holy Spirit onto Abraham or Joshua or Caleb, or Zacharias is foolishness. Who sent Jesus? Who was in Jesus? Whose "Works" did Jesus do?

How did Zacharias receive the Holy Spirit, if not by the Spirit of Life that was in Christ?



It is from this moment that he who is least in the kingdom of heavens is greater than all the holy men and women who
went before this moment.


Truly I say to you, Among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John the Baptist, yet he who is least in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he (John the Baptist). (Matt. 11:11)

10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

JTB didn't have a choice, he didn't choose to turn away from the religions of this world and follow God like his father did. He was a messenger of God created for this very purpose. Men that turn away from this world's religions and choose the Way of the Lord, would certainly be considered greater than a man simply doing what he had no choice but to do.

The closer you are to Christ the Great One the greater people are. Since He imparted Himself into man

the closeness is unparalleled. Simeon, John the Baptist, and other pre-resurrection saints were not that close as the
reborn saints of the church.

Again, that is just foolishness. Simeon and JTB are not the same. Please open up your mind to what is actually written. God spoke to Israel in thunder and lightning. He split to red sea in front of their faces. And yet, although they continued to "profess to know Him", they fell in the wilderness. Why do you believe it would be any different for men who say the man Jesus? Especially given all the warnings about "Christians" Jesus and Paul gave us.

Seek the Kingdom o0f God and HIS Righteousness, not self-justification.


Peter wrote under inspiration about the saints AFTER . . . the resurrection of Jesus and His ascension, that they obeyed the Gospel
and therefore the all-inclusive Spirit of Jesus Christ.

The relationship in the new covenant is not the same as before the grace and reality came through Jesus Christ.

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Ex. 15: 13 Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation.

Num. 14: 17 And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my Lord be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,

18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

19 Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.

So in your religion, this is not the Rock of Israel, the Christ? Caleb wasn't forgiven by the same Passover Lamb as I was? Abraham was forgiven by another's Blood?

Open your mind up to what is actually written my friend. Seek God's Truth, not justification of one or more of this world's religious philosophies.
 
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oikonomia

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Yes, this is why I reply to posts, because the philosophy adopted and are promoted cannot be supported if "Every" Word of Scripture is considered.
If you or anyone will read closely it will be seen why this criticism has no ground at all.
Here are your words again.

"I believe flowing water is used to signify the Spirit of life because God's life within us
is so spontaneous and constantly moving in and though the believer who taps into his spirit. Jesus stood and cried on the last
day of the feast to the inwardly thirsty people "
To begin with, my words there correspond greatly to the words of the Lord Jesus in John 7:38.

"I believe the flow"
refers to the flow Jesus spoke of - "out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water."
So I utterly reject that it is my philosophy to speak of "the flow."

That the flow of living water is within us is also not my philosophy but the promise of Christ.
. . . but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into eternal life. (John 4:14)

That our enjoyment of this flowing arises when the mind is set on the spirit (where the Spirit is) is the word of God.
but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. (Rom. 8:6b)

That this life and peace can be said to be constantly moving in and through the believer is just the experience
of many believers. And many classic Christian hymns and spiritual songs testify of this.


For example A beautiful hymn written by Francis Ridley Havergral (1836-1879) says in verse 1 and chorus -

Like a river, glorious
Is God’s perfect peace,
Over all victorious
In its bright increase;
Perfect, yet it floweth
Fuller every day,
Perfect, yet it groweth
Deeper all the way.


Stayed upon Christ Jesus,
Hearts are fully blest;
Finding, as He promised,
Perfect peace and rest


We Christians all need more experience of this. Hear the hymn and sing along all who love the Lord. Music - James Mountain (1844-1933)

But Paul is speaking to the ""LAW" of the Spirit of life. There is a spirit in everyone who is alive. In your sentence above, you have moved away from the point of Paul's teaching all together by omitting the word "law".

Paul says;

22 For I delight in the "law" of God after the inward man:
You are assuming what you are trying to prove. This is circular reasoning.
The law that Paul delights in is the law of God which he is not able to keep.

Your saying in essence that this law in which he delighted in is the same as "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus."
At best your argument is begging the question.

It is true that before he learned to live in the Spirit he delighted in the law of God which he could not keep.
And he latter totally delighted in the living Jesus Christ who came into him as the Spirit of life.

1.) He first delighted in the law of God.
2.) He latter only sought to be found in Christ and to gain Christ.

There he found "perfect peace and rest". There he found in his innermost being, his regenerated spirit life and peace.
And there he and we too can find rivers of living water flowing from the fountain of life imparted into us in salvation.

Don't even think about arguing with this. It is our ever to encrease eternal inheritance.
The Lord promises for eternity to lead us to fountains of waters of eternal life.

For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and guide them to springs of waters of life; and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. (Rev. 7:17)
ROMANS 7:22 KJV For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
The law in his members is the law of sin and death in his flesh.
The law of his mind is not the law of God. It is the law of his created being who, though powerless to keep God's law, delights knowing
in his conscience that it is good and spiritual and holy.

Let's be clear because Paul uses law in a number of different ways in Romans 7,8.

The law sin and death is the law in his fallen body of sin.
The law of his mind is the agreement of his God created conscience that God's law is good, holy, right, and SHOULD be deligted in and kept.

The law of sin and death in his fallen body is TOO POWERFUL for him to follow the law of his desire to keep God's law.
He needs deliverance from a STRONGER Person who is Jesus Christ with the law of HIS nature.

For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death. (Rom. 8:2)

This is the God given answer to his cry and his proclamation of thanksgiving in the last verses of chapter 7.

Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?
Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin. (7:24,25)

Jesus Christ our Lord to whom he gives thanks is "the Spirit of life".
And "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" cannot be the Law of God because it didn't set him free in chapter 7.
So "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" is that nature, that innate charateristic of the stronger overcoming power of His instrisic
eternal life. That life is now available to be dispensed into man.

Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

He flows. He is living and free. He is poweful yet gentle like a dove.
He will not usurp man's will. But if man turns his heart towards Him He will surely be that river glorious of perfect peace.
ROMANS 7:23 KJV But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity...
The One who delivers us from the body of this death is the One who can live WITHIN us.
He is the grace. No law of God's commandments Paul says could give divine life.

Is then the law against the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given which was able to give life, righteousness would have indeed been of law. (Galatians 3;21)

This again proves that the law which was good, spiritual, righteous and holy which Paul delighted in COULD NOT give him
devine life. In the end it could only condemn him and expose the wretched nature of the sin infested fallen body.

But thanks be to God that there is Jesus Christ who became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45). With Him is the spontaneous
ability to be victorious over sin as we learn to set the mind on the spirit where He is one with us.

Time to sing of the river of living water again. This one more recent.

ROMANS 7:24 KJV O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
This summary is looking back over what he has expressed in chapter 7.

I do not accept that this is a preamble to chapter 8 making "the law of the Spirit of life" identical with "the law" of God over him
condemning him in chapter 7.

Your whole thesis is that the law which exposes his wretchedness is the law of the Spirit of life liberating him, freeing him when
he sets his mind on the living Spirit of Christ in his spirit.
ROMANS 7:25 KJV I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with...
Yes -the law of the flowing river of divine life from our innermost being is the law of the Spirit of life freeing us in Christ Jesus -
WHEN . . . we learn to set our mind on the spirit where the Spirit of God aka Spirit of Christ aka Christ Himself is joined to us.

Also when we learn to habitually set our mind on the life and peace of His presence, His flowing forth within us -
the just requirement of the law of God is fufilled in us who walk according to the Spirit.

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one who believes. (Romans 9:10)

The oldness of the letter is not the newness of spirit in which we serve.

But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held, so that we serve in newness of spirit and not in oldness of letter. (Rom. 7:6)

I will return latter to directly respond to the final points you have. That is about 10 more sentences give or take.
 
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Psalm 27

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Why you say that?
It's the struggle of somebody 'under the law'- before being born again, and hence, delivered from indwelling sin.

Culminating in Romans 8:1

"'There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus 'who walk not according the flesh, but according to The Spirit'"
 
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oikonomia

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Oh My goodness, who taught you there was only ONE spirit in the garden God placed us in?
I think you are more confused than I anticipated. Why would I be including an evil spirit in speaking of
the Spirit of life in Christ?
Why would I be including a demonic spirit to speak of "rivers" [plural] of living water ?
You're confused about the matter - one river of water of life which becomes rivers [plural] as Jesus said in John 7:38,39.

And in the typology going all the way back to Genesis 2:10 the one river divided into four heads.
This I believe is God's way of telling us that His salvation will reach the four corners of the earth.

And a river went forth from Eden to water the garden, and from there it divided and became four branches. (Gen. 2:10)

You don't have to receive it that way. But this I take as God's salvation of life will go out to the whole world.
And if you can receive it the fountain of life becomming in the drinking sinner rivers [plural] is the one Spirit
flowing to all the parts of a man's soul supplying everything needed.

So Paul speaks of
"the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:19)

In this case this is not relevant. I am discussion the One Spirit. I am not discussing all the demons.

Throughout this discussion I have had in mind the one Spirit who is the Third Person of the Trinity AND the human spirit to which
He is joined in regeneration.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)

You grasping at verses on evil spirits is all besides the subject of this thread.

This is your religion, and you are here to promote it. But for me to be converted to your religion, I would have to reject the Biblical fact that Israel was given the Gospel of Christ but didn't believe in it, while Caleb did. And what did Caleb do? He "walked" in the "LAW" of the Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus. This is undeniable Biblical Fact.
I promote what Jesus promised about the Spirit as a springing up fountain springing up into eternal life. (John 4:14)

But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall by no means thirst forever; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into eternal life. (John 4:14)

I promote "out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water" (John 7:38)
We love to sing of the free flowing river of God's life in Christ within the church.

 
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oikonomia

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Words by the late Brother Witness Lee. Sung by young trainees in learning to serve the Lord and the churches.

"Not the law of letters but the Christ of life
God desires to give us saving us from strife."

 
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Studyman

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If you or anyone will read closely it will be seen why this criticism has no ground at all.

To begin with, my words there correspond greatly to the words of the Lord Jesus in John 7:38.

"I believe the flow"
refers to the flow Jesus spoke of - "out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water."
So I utterly reject that it is my philosophy to speak of "the flow."

That the flow of living water is within us is also not my philosophy but the promise of Christ.
. . . but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into eternal life. (John 4:14)

Paul doesn't mention "FLOW". He says the "LAW" of the "Spirit of Life" that was in Christ, set him free from the "LAW" of Sin and Death.

I ask you the question, "Who is the Spirit of Life"? and "where is His Law found, that I might "Serve the Law of the Spirit of Life" with my mind so as to "Walk" in the Spirit, and not the flesh?

That our enjoyment of this flowing arises when the mind is set on the spirit (where the Spirit is) is the word of God.
but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. (Rom. 8:6b)

The Spirit is the Word of God, or as Paul teaches, the Holy Scriptures, which are "Inspired by God", who is Spirit.


That this life and peace can be said to be constantly moving in and through the believer is just the experience
of many believers. And many classic Christian hymns and spiritual songs testify of this.

It's not about your adopted religion or some random religious song. Its about understanding what Paul is teaching. Not wresting his words to align with a random religious philosophy.

For example A beautiful hymn written by Francis Ridley Havergral (1836-1879) says in verse 1 and chorus -

Like a river, glorious
Is God’s perfect peace,
Over all victorious
In its bright increase;
Perfect, yet it floweth
Fuller every day,
Perfect, yet it groweth
Deeper all the way.


Stayed upon Christ Jesus,
Hearts are fully blest;
Finding, as He promised,
Perfect peace and rest


We Christians all need more experience of this. Hear the hymn and sing along all who love the Lord. Music - James Mountain (1844-1933)


I advocate seeking the Truth of God, as Jesus, that is, the Jesus "of the Bible", teaches me. Singing songs may sound good, and from the lips, may even Glorify God. But "Serving" the Law of God is the remedy Paul is speaking to in Romans 7.

You are assuming what you are trying to prove. This is circular reasoning.
The law that Paul delights in is the law of God which he is not able to keep.

There you go again. You select a few words of Paul, then twist his teaching to align with another religious philosophy. Namely that God gave PAUL Laws impossible to keep. Although a popular religious philosophy of this world's religions, it is not what Paul is teaching.

"When did Paul "do" that which he hated"? Before he served the Law of God with his mind, ruling over his flesh, or after?

When Paul was a Pharisee, did he not "delight in the Law of God"? And yet he persecuted the Church of God and held the coats of men who murdered Stephen. How is this not Paul "doing what he would not"? Who is Paul speaking to here in Romans 7? I also posted this, but to no avail.

Rom. 7: 1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them "that know the law",) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

What LAW was Paul serving with his mind, when he persecuted the Church of God? Was it not "another law" he found in his members waring against the Law he delighted in? And didn't this Law in his flesh, reign over the Law of his mind?

These are relevant questions and relevant Scriptures. Why was Paul brought into captivity? He tells you, I posted his words, and you refused to acknowledge them as well.

Rom. 6: 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye "yield yourselves" servants to obey, "his servants ye are" to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

The remedy that Paul gave for his dilemma was to humble himself to "Serve the Law of God" with his mind. Like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, Abraham and Caleb did.

This message is not well received today by the "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, as they have been convinced that God gave men Laws impossible to obey, just as you implied above. Paul doesn't teach that at all. He teaches that when men turn away from this world's religions and their philosophies, (for him it was the sect of the Pharisees) and men who "Transform themselves" into apostles of Christ, and turn to God in obedience and Serve the Law of God in their mind as instructed by Him, ruling over their Flesh, they are Walking in the "LAW" of the Spirit of Life". There is no condemnation for men who humble themselves to God in this manner, as the many examples of Faithful men show us. As Jesus Himself points out.

Luke 5: 31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Righteous men have already repented, like Zacharias.


Your saying in essence that this law in which he delighted in is the same as "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus."

There is only ONE Law "of the Spirit of Life", and that is God, the Spirit of Life's "Law". Can you name one person who "Professes to know God", that wouldn't say they delight in the Law of God after the inward man?

There is a difference in "delighting" in God's Law and Serving God's Law obviously.

Is. 58: 2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

Clearly, before Paul served the Law of God with his mind, his flesh ruled over him causing him to do what he would not.


Seek God's Truth, not self-justification.

At best your argument is begging the question.

It is true that before he learned to live in the Spirit he delighted in the law of God which he could not keep.

What Pharisee that ever existed, that knew God's Law, if asked "Do you delight in the Law of God after the inward man", would say No?

Clearly, he wasn't "Serving the Law of God" with his mind, ruling over his sinful flesh, when he was "Doing" that which he would not do.

What is so hard about this understanding?

And he latter totally delighted in the living Jesus Christ who came into him as the Spirit of life.

1.) He first delighted in the law of God.
2.) He latter only sought to be found in Christ and to gain Christ.

There you go again. LOL. The men who murdered Jesus and Stephen and the Prophets, "Delighted in the Law of God", but were not serving the Law of God, and therefore, they walked in the religious traditions and philosophies of this world. Like The "Christians" in Matt. 7:22, they honored Christ with their lips.

But HE didn't know them? Why? Because they didn't humble themselves to "Serve the Law of God", rather, they were more interested in preserving and promoting popular religious doctrines and tradition. I posted the Words of Jesus who confirm this truth, but again, you didn't acknowledge them.

Here is what Paul taught about the Church of God in his time.

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

There he found "perfect peace and rest". There he found in his innermost being, his regenerated spirit life and peace.
And there he and we too can find rivers of living water flowing from the fountain of life imparted into us in salvation.

Matt. 21: 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

No doubt your words are a great marketing strategy to convert contributing members to your religious sect. God knew this would happen and HE warned me.

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto "every one" that walketh "after the imagination of his own heart", No evil shall come upon you.

I advocate seeking the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness. Not to simply hear them, or delight in Him, or call Him Lord. But as the Holy Scriptures teach every man, to serve Him. In this way Paul was freed from the "Law" of His Flesh.

Don't even think about arguing with this. It is our ever to encrease eternal inheritance.
The Lord promises for eternity to lead us to fountains of waters of eternal life.

I'm sure those Christians in Matt. 7:22 also believed they were on the Path that so "many" walk to eternal life. But Jesus Said to Strive for the Path HE walked on. That even though "many" who come in His Name, will promote this broad path, it isn't His Path.

I advocate that men listen to "Every Word" which proceeds from the mouth of God, not just those words which can be used to promote popular religious philosophy of this world God placed us in.
 
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oikonomia

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Paul doesn't mention "FLOW". He says the "LAW" of the "Spirit of Life" that was in Christ, set him free from the "LAW" of Sin and Death.
We who know the New Testament well and have experience know what Paul is saying.
He doesn't have to mention EVERY aspect of the Spirit of life in that one verse.
It is obvious that he is talking about the Spirit which Jesus spoke of as "shall flow rivers of living water" out of the repentant sinner's
innermost being in John 7:38.

And this is the same Person whom the disciples were "about to receive". (v.39)
In Romans 7 Paul testifies what his life was like without the Spirit.
In Romans 8 he testifies living with this Spirit unleashing the riches of Him - the Spirit of life.

I ask you the question, "Who is the Spirit of Life"? and "where is His Law found, that I might "Serve the Law of the Spirit of Life" with my mind so as to "Walk" in the Spirit, and not the flesh?
The Spirit there is Jesus Christ - "Now the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17)
The Spirit of life
is the last Adam Christ in His pneumatic form - the last Adam became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)
The Spirit is the Word of God, or as Paul teaches, the Holy Scriptures, which are "Inspired by God", who is Spirit.
Taking the word of God in spirit with a heart turned to the Lord surely will bring us into contact with Christ.
The religionists searched the Scripture but were not willing to come to Christ to receive divine life.

You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that testify concerning Me.
Yet you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. (John 5:39,40)


We should not be as them. When we come to the Scripture we always should simultaneously turn our hearts to the Lord Jesus.

That is a big subject in its own right for sure. But here the important point is "the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17)
So the Spirit of life which Paul is speaking of in Romans 8 is the Lord Jesus in His pneumatic form.

The indwelling Person setting us free has these names used interchangeably in Romans 8.
"the Spirit of God"- "the Spirit of Christ" - "Christ".

Your hung up on trying to prove that "the law of the Spirit of life" is the same law that Paul could not keep in ch. 7.
If this is true then one should be able to substitute "the law of the Spirit of life" in chapters 6 and 7 in a few key places.
And doing so yields an absurd twisting of the truth.

Rom. 6:14 - For sin will not lord it over you, for you are not under [the law of the Spirit of life] but under grace.
That makes no sense.

v. 15 - What then? Should we sin, because we are not under [the law of the Spirit of life] but under grace? Absolutely not!
That makes no sense.

Rom 7:1 - Or are you ignorant, brothers (for I speak to those who know [the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus], that [the law ofthe Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ] lords it over the man as long as he lives?
That makes no sense.

Rom. 7:6 - But now we have been discharged from [ the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus] , having died to that in which we were held, so that we serve in newness of spirit and not in oldness of letter.
That makes no sense.

Everywhere Paul specifically speaks of the Old Testament Law cannot mean "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus".
Anyone's stubborn effort to make the two equivalent is teaching absurdity.

Rom. 7:9 - And I was alive without [the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus] once; but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
This would be absurd.

So in Romans let no one deceive you arguing that "the law" causing Paul to face his wretchedness is "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus".

Nor could you substitute "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" wherever we read "the commandment" in chapter 7.

Rom 7:9 - And I was alive without [the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus] once; but when [the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ] came, sin revived and I died.

v. 11 - For sin, seizing the opportunity through
[the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus] , deceived me and through it killed me.

So the commandment/s and the law which God gave on Mt. Sinai to Israel is not "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" of Romans 8:2.

It's not about your adopted religion or some random religious song.
Hey, I'm sorry if you don't have a song in your heart celebrating the Spirit of Christ.

Its about understanding what Paul is teaching. Not wresting his words to align with a random religious philosophy.
If you cared about this you would not keep trying to teach that the law that Paul wrestled with in chapter 7 is the same one
that frees him in chapter 8.

Now I am going to skip down to your usage of Matthew 7:20-22.

Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many works of power?

And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.

This portion is used by some to prove the Apostle Paul was wrong in specifically intructing how men man be saved.

That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
For with the heart there is believing unto righteousness, and with the mouth there is confession unto salvation. (Rom. 10:9,10)


" Aha!! "
some reason. "This means that you may call Lord Jesus and go straight to hell."
Whenever it is encouraged that men call "Lord Jesus" some critics will point out Matthew 7:20-22 to discourage people from
calling out to the resurrected Lord Jesus believing in their heart that God has raised Him from the dead.

This does not have the effect of proving Romans 10:9,10 is a lie or incorrrect apostolic teaching.

Romans 10:9,10 is intructions how to be saved under eternal redemption.
Matthew 7:20-21 is about entering into the REWARD of the millennial kingdom.

That some believers will be saved and enter into this reward and other believers will be saved and suffer loss, not receiving this
reward is clearly seen in First Corinthians.

The work of each will become manifest; for the day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one’s work, of what sort it is.

If anyone’s work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward;

If anyone’s work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Without dispute the New Testament therefore teaches:
1.) There are the SAVED who in addition receive a reward.
2.) There are the SAVED who will be saved as through fire losing the reward and suffering some kind of loss.

The ones whom Jesus says "I never knew you" means He never acknowledged, never approved their way of working. The word "knew" in the
Greek is the same that is translated "acknowledge" or "approve" in Romans 7:15 - [edited]

For what I work out, I do not acknowledge; (Rom. 7:15)

This means he did not approve of those things.

Some who will not be allowed to enter into the reward of the millennial kingdom the because
their way of Christian work was not acknowledge by the Lord. They did not do the Father's will
but followed their fleshly methods of serving. They may have cast out demons or spoke for the
Lord. But because they were like runners in a race which cheated running outside the prescribed and proper
lane established for them, their working was never allowed, never acknowledged by the Lord.

If anyone’s work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward;
If anyone’s work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So it is possible to call on the name of the Lord to be saved yet be disciplined in the coming
millennial period of 1,000 years. But Christians who "suffer loss" not being so rewarded will
still be saved.

Why argue with me? That is what the New Testament says -
he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens. (Matt. 7:21)

The footnote in the Recovery Version of the New Testament includes these helpful words on Matthew 7:21.

"Since entering into the kingdom of the heavens requires doing the will of the heavenly Father, it clearly is different
from entering into the kingdom of God through regeneration (John 3:3,5). The latter entrance is gained through
being born of the divine life; the former, through living that life."
 
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Studyman

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I think you are more confused than I anticipated. Why would I be including an evil spirit in speaking of
the Spirit of life in Christ?

"Many" men who come in Christ's Name, "Profess that they know God", like Paul did as a Pharisee. But even though they believed they had the Spirit of God in them, they had another spirit instead. By ignoring, omitting or otherwise rejecting this part of the Gospel of Christ, a man is opens up himself to deception, like those Christians in Matt. 7:22. Had they believed the warnings of the Christ "of the Bible", they wouldn't be deceived about the spirit that was in them.

Why would you include Every Word of the Christ in your religious philosophy? I think the more important question would be, "Why do you omit so much of what is written?


2 Cor. 2: 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Every self-proclaimed "Christian" on the planet believes they are filled with the Spirit of Christ. The reason why I bring this up is because both Jesus and Paul, as well as Jeremiah, all inspired by the Same Spirit of Life that was in the Jesus "of the Bible", whose warnings I posted but you ignored, warn specifically about deceivers "who profess to know God". You are free to disregard these warnings, or always say that they are only for the other guy, and not for you if that is what the spirit in you promotes. But I am advocating that a man seeks God's Truth which isn't complete without His Warnings of men who "Profess to know him, "but by their works they deny Him.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-12-43/
You're confused about the matter - one river of water of life which becomes rivers [plural] as Jesus said in John 7:38,39.

And in the typology going all the way back to Genesis 2:10 the one river divided into four heads.
This I believe is God's way of telling us that His salvation will reach the four corners of the earth.


Again, you have departed away from Paul's Teaching and onto your own. This thread is about the LAW that is man's flesh "Before" he chooses to "serve" the Law of God in his Mind.

And a river went forth from Eden to water the garden, and from there it divided and became four branches. (Gen. 2:10)

You don't have to receive it that way. But this I take as God's salvation of life will go out to the whole world.
And if you can receive it the fountain of life becomming in the drinking sinner rivers [plural] is the one Spirit
flowing to all the parts of a man's soul supplying everything needed.

So Paul speaks of
"the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:19)

In this case this is not relevant. I am discussion the One Spirit. I am not discussing all the demons.

What it looks like to me, is that you are carefully selecting parts of a sentence here and another sentence there, to justify your adopted religious philosophy. In the Holy Scriptures, God placed before men "Life and Good, death and Evil". You can continue as if only Life and Good was placed before you if you want.

I am simply advocating that a man considers every Word of the Christ, both before and after HE became a man in the person of Jesus.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-12-44/
Throughout this discussion I have had in mind the one Spirit who is the Third Person of the Trinity AND the human spirit to which
He is joined in regeneration.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)

You grasping at verses on evil spirits is all besides the subject of this thread.

Again, in order to justify your own religion, you must carefully select only pieces of Scripture, while omitting the weightier matters of the Law, just as those who professed to know God in Jesus' Time did. Here, look what happens to Paul's message when more of Paul's words are considered.

1 cor. 17: 15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God "in your body", and in your spirit, which are God's.

Those Christians in Matt. 7:22 professed to be "Joined to the Lord", but they lived according to their own religious traditions, and did not "Serve the Law of God" as Paul teaches.

It is kind of sad really, that you have been so blinded that you don't know the flesh is evil, and that is why a man cannot let himself be ruled by it.

I promote what Jesus promised about the Spirit as a springing up fountain springing up into eternal life. (John 4:14)

But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall by no means thirst forever; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into eternal life. (John 4:14)

But not everyone who "SAYS" they have drank the water, had drank the water. This is how a man can call Jesus Lord, Lord, but not deny themselves and "Serve the Law of God" in their mind.

I advocate drinking the Water HE promotes, not just "saying" you drank it.


I promote "out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water" (John 7:38)
We love to sing of the free flowing river of God's life in Christ within the church.

This is a very common religious practice. Jesus spoke to it in Matt. 6.

"Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him."

Without the "LAW" of the Spirit of life that was in Christ Jesus, there are still rivers which flow from the heart of man, there are still spirits directing the rivers. But it isn't the River of Life that flowed from the Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus.


Seek Biblical Truth, not the promotion or preservation of this world's popular religious philosophies.
 
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oikonomia

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"Many" men who come in Christ's Name, "Profess that they know God", like Paul did as a Pharisee. But even though they believed they had the Spirit of God in them, they had another spirit instead. By ignoring, omitting or otherwise rejecting this part of the Gospel of Christ, a man is opens up himself to deception, like those Christians in Matt. 7:22. Had they believed the warnings of the Christ "of the Bible", they wouldn't be deceived about the spirit that was in them.
Those who do not have the Spirit of Christ are not of Him.
Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. (Rom. 8:9b)

These we may call "nominal Christians" if they profess they ARE of Christ yet have not His Spirit.
These nominal Christians are described as the
"tares" sown by the enemy among the "wheat" in Matthew 13:24-30 interpreted by
the Lord Himself in
verses 36-43.

That takes care of "pretend Christians" or "phony Christians" who claim to be Christians but only so in name.
Their end is bad according to the parable.

But there is another catagory. That is genuine Christians who have the Spirit of Christ and are His forever.
However they will come before the judgment seat of Christ and be rebuked though they are saved.

But if anyone builds upon the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, stubble,

The work of each will become manifest; for the day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one’s work, of what sort it is.

If anyone’s work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward;

If anyone’s work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. (1 Cor. 3:12-15)

The nominal, fake, pretend Christians are not on the foundation of Christ to begin with.
But the genuine Christian is building with his life on the foundation of Christ. Am I right?


Now if you can receive it, the gold signifies the divine nature of the Father.
The silver signifies the redemptive nature of the Son.
The precious stones signifies the transformation work of the Holy Spirit.

To build the holy temple of God, which is the end aim and result of our salvation, we must
build with the Father's nature, the Son's redeeming work, and the Holy Spirit's transformation.
These are the imperishable operations of the Trinity upon the Christian. These materials
will be able to pass the fiery examination when every Christian stands before the judgment seat of Christ
for a determination what their station will be in the millennial kingdom.

Wood, grass, stubble are the more plenteous worthless works of the flesh, natural man, worldly service, activities by which
the immature Christian attempted to build the church. These plenteous yet fragile perishable methods will be burnt up
at the judgment seat of Christ for CHRISTIANS.

They will suffer loss. But they will be saved. The remedial discipline they must go through causing them to "suffer loss"
is to perfect them during that time when they SHOULD have been enjoying the kingdom reward.

Needless to say NEITHER situation (either false discipileship or worldly / natural filled discipleship) should be encouraged.

I have no more time this morning. But the Matthew 7:22 warning I firmly believe and would teach and continue to teach
is about those not serving the Lord with the precious materials from the Father's will. The Lord does not deny that
they did many things in His name. But they did not do them according to His Father's flavor, way, will, leading.

You are welcomed to another opinion on Matthew 7:22. But it would not be wise to say Matthew 7:22 makes Romans 10:9,10 a mistake.
For the former is a warning to serve the Lord Jesus according to the will of the Father, in the Father's way, according to the Father's heart.
The latter is instruction on how a man may be saved - believing in the heart and confessing "Lord Jesus" with the mouth.

Remember some are saved and rewarded and some saved are not rewarded but will suffer loss
You see, their using worthless methods to build the Lord's church actually defiled it, defaced it, and marred it with blemishes.
The holiness of God's temple was used by the enemy to try to destroy His temple. That is through their employing worthless methods of service foolishly in immaturity. They did not realize they were being used to destroy the temple of God not build it.

The following sentences of Paul demonstrates this.

If anyone’s work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you. (vs. 15-17)
 
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Studyman

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We who know the New Testament well and have experience know what Paul is saying.
He doesn't have to mention EVERY aspect of the Spirit of life in that one verse.
It is obvious that he is talking about the Spirit which Jesus spoke of as "shall flow rivers of living water" out of the repentant sinner's
innermost being in John 7:38.

And this is the same Person whom the disciples were "about to receive". (v.39)
In Romans 7 Paul testifies what his life was like without the Spirit.
In Romans 8 he testifies living with this Spirit unleashing the riches of Him - the Spirit of life.


The Spirit there is Jesus Christ - "Now the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17)
The Spirit of life
is the last Adam Christ in His pneumatic form - the last Adam became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)

Again, there is a river flowing from you, it just isn't the River of Living Water.

You are preaching that the "Spirit of Life" that was in Christ Jesus, "Is Christ Jesus". This is the water flowing from within you, that you want me and others to drink.

But when I go to the Jesus "of the Bible", and I ask Him, "Jesus, Oikonomia is preaching to others that the Spirit of Life that was in you, when you walked the earth, was your Own Spirit? Is this true?

Here is what the Jesus of the Bible says in answer to my question.

John 14: 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, "and the Father in me"? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father "that dwelleth in me", he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

John 6: 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will "of him that sent me".

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, "that they might know thee" the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which "thou gavest me to do". 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had "with thee" before the world was.

So clearly what you are preaching doesn't align with the Words of the Christ Himself. What about the Witnesses in the New Testament? Did they believe the religious philosophy flowing from within you?

Heb. 5: 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears "unto him" that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

So you preach Jesus prayed to Himself?

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

A son of whom? Himself?

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

So you preach that Jesus called Himself a high priest. What does Paul say about your preaching that the Spirit of Life that was in Jesus, "The Spirit there is Jesus Christ".

Phip. 2: 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (Equal with Himself")

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he "humbled himself", and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (Obedient to Himself?)

9 Wherefore "God" also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (Jesus highly exalted Himself, gave Himself a name about others?) 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory "of God" the Father.

So, I asked you, a self-appointed preacher who claims to know the New Testament my question, "Who was the Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus". And you answered "The Spirit there is Jesus Christ".

But clearly this was false, a false teaching. Not according to the Baptist religion, or the Catholic religion, or any of this world's religious sects and businesses, but according to the Words of the Christ "of the Bible" Himself. This is the water that flows from within your heart, and you are giving it to others to drink. In the exact same way Paul, before he "Yielded Himself" a servant to obey God, also promoted rivers of water. And from the hearts of the religious sect of the Pharisees also flowed rivers of water they gave to others to drink. Just not Living Waters.

And how did this happen? Was it not because they "Omitted" much of what God had written for their admonition? Did the Jesus "of the Bible" not tell them "these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone".

So how can you call Jesus Lord, Lord, teach others in His Name, and yet promote outright falsehoods about Him, as you clearly are doing? Well it goes right back to how you also promoted falsehoods about me and what I was saying. You are selecting scriptures for the purpose of self-justification, not seeking the Truth of God. And how shall I Love a man who engages in this popular practice, a tradition I also engaged in, in times past? Shall I not do my best to show him, to help him, not with my words, but from the Holy scriptures themselves?

And this I have done. So you can consider the Scriptures I posted regarding the religious philosophy you are promoting, or not. It's time for me to move on.

Thanks for the discussion.
 
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HIM

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You are preaching that the "Spirit of Life" that was in Christ Jesus, "Is Christ Jesus". This is the water flowing from within you, that you want me and others to drink.
Even Jesus said that the Father that dwelleth in Him doeth the work And greater works shall we do because He goeth unto the Father and that He will not leave us comfortless but will come unto us. And be in us. Us in Him, He in us that the world might believe.

As Paul said it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. The Life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave himself for us. Know you not that you are the Temple of God and God's Spirit, His anointing dwells in you. That we are partakers of His Divine nature. That we be made the righteousness of God in Him fulfilling the righteousness of the law. Walking after, following the Spirit of God that dwells in us and not after the flesh. Now having His Law in our hearts and minds. His Word in our hearts and mouths through His Spirit. A New creation in Christ Jesus begotten by the Word of truth. The Light that lighteth, giveth life everyman that cometh into the world. The Light that is the Life of man.
 
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Studyman

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Even Jesus said that the Father that dwelleth in Him doeth the work And greater works shall we do because He goeth unto the Father and that He will not leave us comfortless but will come unto us. And be in us. Us in Him, He in us that the world might believe.

As Paul said it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. The Life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave himself for us. Know you not that you are the Temple of God and God's Spirit, His anointing dwells in you. That we are partakers of His Divine nature. That we be made the righteousness of God in Him fulfilling the righteousness of the law. Walking after, following the Spirit of God that dwells in us and not after the flesh. Now having His Law in our hearts and minds. His Word in our hearts and mouths through His Spirit. A New creation in Christ Jesus begotten by the Word of truth.

Truly there are men such as this who are learned of the Father.

Ez. 18: 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you "a new heart and a new spirit": for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Eph 4: 22 That "ye put off" concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that "ye put on" the new man, "which after God" is created in righteousness and true holiness.

"For why will you die"?


The Light that lighteth, giveth life everyman that cometh into the world. The Light that is the Life of man.

Only those who "choose Life" as defined by the Father, will be given Life. Remember, the Jesus "of the Bible" said "Men Love Darkness". And they stay away from the Light, in order to preserve their darkness. But there are men who love darkness, who will "Deny themselves", pick up their sinful flesh, and come to the Light for the express purpose of exposing the darkness they know exists. These men are broken, humiliated, cast out of this world's religions. But what remains will withstand all the storms of this life, because these men built their house on the Rock.
 
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oikonomia

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Every self-proclaimed "Christian" on the planet believes they are filled with the Spirit of Christ.
Not really. Some brothers will tell you up front that they seem not to be too "filled" with the Spirit at all.
The reason why I bring this up is because both Jesus and Paul, as well as Jeremiah, all inspired by the Same Spirit of Life that was in the Jesus "of the Bible", whose warnings I posted but you ignored, warn specifically about deceivers "who profess to know God".
I was raised in a liberal branch of Presbyterianism and knew quite a few nominal Christians.
I have met seminarians with degrees in divinity which I ascertained pretty well "I doubt that this person is even a believer."

I am not longer in those circles. But I really don't get much from you warning me of what has been obvious to me
since a youth.

And when saints do not agree with my view of a biblcal subject my answer is not always to immediately warn them - "You know many will say Lord, Lord. But they are false apostles you know."

Sometimes I just say. "Well, here is a dear brother in Christ who doesn't see this teaching as I do. Lead us Lord. "

You are free to disregard these warnings, or always say that they are only for the other guy, and not for you if that is what the spirit in you promotes. But I am advocating that a man seeks God's Truth which isn't complete without His Warnings of men who "Profess to know him, "but by their works they deny Him.
MATTHEW 12:43 KJV When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
I don't disregard these warnings.
I'm looking through your reply for something more substantive.
Again, you have departed away from Paul's Teaching and onto your own. This thread is about the LAW that is man's flesh "Before" he chooses to "serve" the Law of God in his Mind.
Repeating over and over again certain corrections I would apply to this would be too redundant.
But Romans 7:25 is his summarizing what he said in chapter 7.

As I read along your response you have not YET countered that if you substitute "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"
in those several places in chapters 6 and 7 it would make any sense at all.

And rather than warning me that I could be a false apostle or something because I disagree with you,
I would pay more attention to your explanation how to make sense out of your concept.

Two mistakes - the law Paul could not keep was not "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (8:2)
The law of Paul's mind is not the law of God. It is the created part in him that agrees with the law of God, delighting in it.

Threatening me as a false apostle transforming myself into a angel of light doesn't win your case.
If you keep pushing this line of rebuttal you are going to eventually find that I can match you.
Other posters have discovered I can play hardball if you keep pushing the "Me true teacher, you false teacher" line.

What impresses me more is if you point out how I misrepresent your understanding, if that is the case.

Do I understand you rightly that you want to teach me?
"The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:2) is the SAME as the law thoughout the OT as it came down to Israel with Moses on Mt. Sinai". That's not right.

But it is right that Paul had a high regard for the law as it did come from God AND reflected something about God surely.
That is why he wrote:

So then the law is holy, and the commandment holy and righteous and good. (Rom. 7:12)
Did then that which is good become death to me? Absolutely not! (v.13a)
For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am fleshy, sold under sin. (v.14)
I agree with the law that it is good.(v.17b)


So he highly regarded the Torah. And there was blessing (mostly in outward material things) to those of the OT time
who sought to obey the law. It is not possible to argue against that.

But this is the new covenant time now. And it is time for us to grow up and learn from Christ and His apostles.
The law was given to be a child-conductor to lead the people to GRACE - God Himself being everything we need.

Once again! - For the law was given through Moses; grace and reality came through Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

What then is our responsibility? Nothing? Certainly not. It is to deny the self and set the mind on the spirit
where "the Spirit of life" has come to indwell the eternally forgiven and redeemed Christian.

I have used two illustrations - one of power steering in and automobile. And the other of the law of gravity which always
pulls the flow of water, rivers. streams downward. They are not perfect analogies. But I think they are good analogies.


What it looks like to me, is that you are carefully selecting parts of a sentence here and another sentence there, to justify your adopted religious philosophy. In the Holy Scriptures, God placed before men "Life and Good, death and Evil". You can continue as if only Life and Good was placed before you if you want.
Here, getting pass the accusation part, this is an interesting aspect of the discussion.

No doubt many places in the OT speak of God's blessing being like this river.
And do not think I have never read that God put before Israel life and death / good and evil.
And that they were commanded to choose life.

Take for example Jeremiah 17;7,8. - Blessed is the man who trusts in Jehovah / And whose trust Jehovah is.
And he will be like a tree transplanted beside water, / Which sends out its roots by a stream, / And will not be afraid when heat comes; / For its leaves remain flourishing, / And it will not be anxious in the year of drought / And will not cease to bear fruit.


Now someone might say
"Now THAT sounds like fountain of water springing up into eternal life from Jesus in John 4.
Now THAT sounds like out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water from Jesus in John 7.

Now THAT sounds like all given to drink of one Spirit from the Apostle Paul in First Corinthians."

And I would agree that they DO sound similar. But the blessings coming forth to God's obedient saints under
the law were more in the material realm - good crops, good produce, enemies held at bay, good healthy body, blessed nation, less poverty, etc.etc.

The law was a school tutor or child conductor lead man to the deeper reality of God dispensing HIMSELF as life into man.
That Spirit of God dispensing the perfect human life and uncreated divinity of God "was not yet". (John 7:39)

God's eternal purpose to dispense Himself into man is exceedingly profound. And He did not send Paul down the mountain
immediately after Moses. It was not Moses came dowm with the law of God followed immediately by Romans written by Paul.

And the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus freeing man is something deeper than the blessings of obeying (or trying) to
keep the law according to God's many admonistions in the Old Testament.

Above in this discussion I am pretty sure you quoted to me Ecclesiastes. Solomon concludes that gloomy book
by saying to obey God's commandents is the end of the matter period. That is the whole duty of humanity.

The end of the matter, when all has been heard, is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man. (Ecc. 12:13)

Now I love that gloomy book Ecclesiastes. But I wish you would also learn from it what the Preacher said.
For everything there is a SEASON. There is an appropriate TIME for every matter under heaven. (Ecc. 3:1-8)

There was a season to obey the ten commandments and offer the sacrifices for inevitable infractions against it.9
There was a time for that.
Now it is a time to learn to live by "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" as grace empowering us.
What we need to do in THIS time is to stop our striving and set our mind on the Spirit of Christ the more powerful Victor.

It is not the new covenant TIME to learn that we have been led by the law to new testament grace.
We need to learn to take the indwelling Christ as everything we need - faith, consecration, obedience, love, loyalty.

WE JUST AIN'T GOT IT. We have Someone living in us who has it ALL. We need to by faith let Him move into every part
of our heart to bring WITH HIM the overcoming and victory that we need and that God wants.

Excuse my poor Engish. But the cross means this "EVERYTHING you are I can't use. You're fired. You're out of a job. You're
were fired before you were even born. I made provision for your failure even before you were born in Jesus Christ."


So Paul's aspiration as a former best Pharisee you could get, was he counted all of his law keeping dung - dog food that he
instead might GAIN . . . Christ.

But what things were gains to me, these I have counted as loss on account of Christ.

But moreover I also count all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account of whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ

And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith, (Phil 3:7-9)

This pioneering lover of Jesus and the new covenant just wanted to be found in a living Person - in Christ.
His only aspiration was to KNOW this Person- the power of His resurrection life and fellowship with Him whatever betide.

To know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, (v.10)

He knew that all his bad self AND his good religious self had to die with Christ so he could be raised to walk in Christ
unto freedom of every kind.

The New Testament teaches the organic blending of Christ's life into our life. That New Testament teaches we are forgiven
to learn to live another way, by the empowering of grace . . . and grace . . . and grace upon grace. And layers of grace we need.

For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
For the law was given through Moses; grace and reality came through Jesus Christ. (John 1:16,17)


I stop this post here. Pay attention to the LYRICS.
 
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