Savior of the World, or Eternal Failure?

[ClementofA]

Once again you err because you do not differentiate Gods anger of the OT. There is no anger of God for His children in teh NT because His anger was appeased by Jesus.

For Gods Children (believers) He chastens them to learn. For the unbeliever there is no such chastening.

That is besides the point that God's wrath can be corrective. You provided no proof that it cannot be corrective in Jn.3:36.

YOu forget that the good deed doers who knew of the Lord were rejected by jesus in Matt. 7;

So? Rejected does not equal eternal rejection. Is Love Omnipotent a sadist who enjoys torturing children, i.e. his creatures.

And as for the account of Lazarus and the rich man- why was no repentance offered them in the place of torments?

Offered them? Repentance is something a person does himself. If he had only been there for 5 minutes, why should he have repented that quickly?

Was that not enough suffering to make them repent and allow them to move to Abrahams bosom?

Obviously not. Does it say he was screaming at the top of his lungs as his toe nails were being pulled out?

Why were they left behind when jesus ascended to heaven and took captivity captive? Couldn't they repent then?

What do you think?

You have created a whole doctrine of repentance in the lake of fire, by a lack of understanding the greek. 1 Cor. 15:22 The phrase "in Christ" with Paul is a technical term and means those who have accepted Christ.

1 Co.15:22 says "in Christ ALL", not "all in Christ". You have it backwards.

You also forget:

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

You have a point to make, or just like quoting scripture?

You cannot find one passage that implies that once in the lake of fire one can repent and thus be pulled out!

Here ya go:

UR verses:

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

75 UR verses + 100 proofs + 150 reasons etc:
Web Online Help

213 Questions Without Answers:
Questions Without Answers

Also as an aside I have a question.

If all are predestined to be saved - why does He make them forced to suffer for ages and ages in the lake of fire (Rev. 14) with no rest day nor night without rest?

Who says that? Why don't you leave the just judgement & how long it will be up to these children's creator, Love Omnipotent.

If the love of God doesn't change them, how do you know that the punishment of God for rejecting Christ will change them?

Do you think Love Omnipotent is incapable of saving them, lol. The Scriptures tell me they'll be saved. What is the testimony of people being saved in this life...does it involve going through sufferings, knowing His love, etc?

Will some last for millions of years that way? If not why not? I guess you also believe that the fallen angels also can have repentance as the others do. Where is that found in SCripture? No implied verses, but a place where God said angels could repent.

See my answers above.

 

[agapelove]

First off, It doesn't take any kind of Christian presence to "know", etc, but/and/or because, in the end, each one will be judged according to their own individual good or bad acts or actions or works or deeds, etc, and this/these will be done by God and not us, etc, and I am 100% confident that He will take any and all "factors" fully and 100% completely into account in each one of those "individual judgements", etc, OK...

And "true justice" will become "fully known", etc, OK...

Just have faith in Him, etc, and know that He is 100% good and the only One truly just, etc, OK...

He will not hold people 100% accountable or 100% truly fully responsible for something, or some things, that they were not 100% truly and fully responsible for, etc, OK...

We'll find out in the judgement, K...?

Until then just have faith, OK, and make sure you for your part are fully following your own heart and conscience and are not going against it, OK...?

God Bless!

Okay, I will “just have faith.”

That is what universalism is all about.

God bless you too.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well here is your post! Yes, it is in the present tense, but you misread what the present tense means here. A common mistake for one who forgets that the csase and mood and modiying words are not considered. Here it is a simple statement of fact. Not that there were just a few at that moment in time that are finding it.

And that still doesn't remove the damnation of John 3:36 when Jesus declared that unbelievers shall not see life- yet you and others here say they will.

Im still waiting to hear how it would’ve been better for Judas if he had never been born if he is destined to receive eternal life in heaven.

 

[Neogaia777]

Okay, I will “just have faith.”

That is what universalism is all about.

God bless you too.

Jave faith that He is good (and just) even though some may be lost, etc.

And you, for your part, follow the commandment to love in the meantime, etc.

And if you have spare time, seek to know the truth and the real truth, etc.

Universalism, or the idea that all will be saved, etc, is heresy, etc, and you don't want to found out to be on the side of heresy, etc.

It is clearly not what the bible says or teaches, etc, cause if so, why all the extreme warnings about hell, etc, if it's not so bad a place and you can be saved from there, etc, if you go there, etc...?

God Bless!

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Hold the bus!
How did you come to that conclusion? What OTHER "creations" have had a "mid point" at which "the messiah comes"?

Too much to explain, etc...

Revelation talks about this entire creation coming to an end and talks about a whole new, new one coming into it's place, etc, and all starting over or beginning again, etc...

Eternity is these creations, etc, ending and/or starting and/or beginning again, then ending and beginning again, etc, and the events in between are still very much the same in and/or throughout all of them, etc...

God Bless!

 

[FineLinen]

Well you fail to look at the conditional (might), it is not WILL but could be or may be! And He has succeeded. For throughout the ages untold millions have been saved!

Sorry Noli: The word sōzō is NOT conditional. It is not a could be be or a may be!

The God of Glory does not deal in possibilities. He IS Saviour, He is NOT a potential Saviour.

"He shall shall save His people from their sins."

Yup, He shall sōzō His people from their sins.

sōzō =

To keep save & sound.

To rescue from danger & destruction.

 

[Saint Steven]

... and when He dies in the flesh, and "at that time", he goes to hades for three days and preaches to those there who were previously under and only knew law before that, etc, and some may get to go with Him when He would ascend into heaven...

"... some may get to go with Him..." ??? Seriously?

I'm trying to imagine those in Hades (the realm of the dead) being skeptical of the proclamation of the gospel to them. "Hmm... not sure about about this. Not really any way for us to prove what you are saying is true, Jesus." - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

Too much to explain, etc...

Revelation talks about this entire creation coming to an end and talks about a whole new, new one coming into it's place, etc, and all starting over or beginning again, etc...

Eternity is these creations, etc, ending and/or starting and/or beginning again, then ending and beginning again, etc, and the events in between are still very much the same in and/or throughout all of them, etc...

God Bless!

That proves nothing. Your unfounded presumption is applied either way.
Any indication that it has happened prior? Or do you ASSUME this is the first time?
If so, why?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Hold the bus!
How did you come to that conclusion? What OTHER "creations" have had a "mid point" at which "the messiah comes"?

 

[Neogaia777]

"... some may get to go with Him..." ??? Seriously?

I'm trying to imagine those in Hades (the realm of the dead) being skeptical of the proclamation of the gospel to them. "Hmm... not sure about about this. Not really any way for us to prove what you are saying is true, Jesus." - lol

Why did Jesus (and the apostles) give such extreme warnings about hell?

And Jesus did not say all would be saved eventually, or that they could all be saved from hell after they went there, etc, that's why you guys are heretics and are spreading lies and false heresies, etc, it goes against all that Jesus said and/or taught or warned of or about, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Saint Steven]

Oh, take me not back through the long ages to a Christ that walked the shores of Galilee, to a Christ that was! He is! He lives! He is here! In my today! I can never again be alone, never grope in the dark for a hand, never be forsaken, never lack in the hour of need, never fail in His ongoing purposes, never need a Saviour, a Redeemer, a Sanctifier, a Guide, a Master, a Friend, a Husband, a Father. I have Him, He who was everything in the yesterday of the past, and who will be everything in the tomorrow of the future, is mine today; and at each conscious moment of my existence - here, and in all ages, praise His wonderful name! Not a far-off, untouchable God, "inhabiting eternity," as the King James version erroneously states, but a God made nigh, INHABITING THE AGES, involved in His creation, working tirelessly and unceasingly and unfailingly until His wonderful plan is brought to a successful conclusion and HE becomes gloriously ALL IN ALL!

"Crown Him the Lord of Years - The Potentate of Time,
Creator of the rolling spheres, Ineffably sublime.
All hail, Redeemer, hail! For You have died for me;
Your praise shall never, never fail As long as Time shall be!

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[Saint Steven]

I explained it, but you obviously don't care to listen, at the mid point during any creation, the messiah comes, and when He dies in the flesh, and "at that time", he goes to hades for three days and preaches to those there who were previously under and only knew law before that, etc, and some may get to go with Him when He would ascend into heaven, etc, and the only other time in time when that ever happens again is at the final judgement right before this creation ends and a whole new one is about to begin when not just they, but all who ever died and those still alive are all "resurrected" or are brought before judgement in the final judgment to all each one to all each be judged according to their works or deeds, each individually, etc, and then, some will go to an eternal Heaven, and some others to an eternal Lake of Fire after that, Hades is not the Lake of Fire, etc, but is part of this world of this creation (and ones following) (again) and this earth, etc...

Not that your going to listen though...

God Bless!

Sounds like a viscous cycle.
I hope Jesus isn't crucified each time. Wasn't once enough?

 

[Saint Steven]

Why did Jesus (and the apostles) give such extreme warnings about hell?

Sounds like a misquote to me.
I'm guessing you read that in a Damnationist biased translation.
What do you make of this scripture below? (it must have slipped past the editors)
Twice it says that the result of Adam 1 was nullified by Adam 2 (Christ)

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[Neogaia777]

Sounds like a viscous cycle.
I hope Jesus isn't crucified each time. Wasn't once enough?

Yes, He does it for eternity.

God Bless!

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, He does it for eternity.

God Bless!

Talk about a bad day at work. That beats all.

 

[Saint Steven]

And Jesus did not say all would be saved eventually, or that they could all be saved from hell after they went there, etc, that's why you guys are heretics and are spreading lies and false heresies, etc, it goes against all that Jesus said and/or taught or warned of or about, etc...

You can have that opinion if you like.
But aren't you guys declaring that Christ was an eternal failure?
He came to save the world, right? Did he succeed or fail?

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

 

[Neogaia777]

Sounds like a misquote to me.
I'm guessing you read that in a Damnationist biased translation.
What do you make of this scripture below? (it must have slipped past the editors)
Twice it says that the result of Adam 1 was nullified by Adam 2 (Christ)

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

If you read it in other translations, and in it's context, it says that the free gift came or was offered to "all", where it says "all" in that passage, etc, cause everywhere else it says some or "many", etc, which could possibly even turn out to be few even maybe, etc...

Anyway, a free gift offered still has to be accepted, etc, and some don't accept it, etc...

And/cause this is actually what the Bible teaches throughout, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

You can have that opinion if you like.
But aren't you guys declaring that Christ was an eternal failure?
He came to save the world, right? Did he succeed or fail?

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Why does it say "especially those who believe", etc...

Again, it is a free gift that comes or is offered to all, but all do not accept it, etc, which is required to be saved, etc...

And some just do not and do not ever, etc...

God Bless!

 

[agapelove]

Universalism, or the idea that all will be saved, etc, is heresy, etc, and you don't want to found out to be on the side of heresy, etc.

Just because it is rejected by mainstream Christianity today does not make it heresy. I prefer to turn to God for the truth not the church.

It is clearly not what the bible says or teaches, etc, cause if so, why all the extreme warnings about hell, etc, if it's not so bad a place and you can be saved from there, etc, if you go there, etc...?

Can you explain then why there is no real word for "hell" in both Hebrew or Greek?

All along it has been the church that places such a heavy emphasis on hell NOT Jesus. Ask any preacher and he will tell you that fear is an extremely effective tactic.

 

[Neogaia777]

Just because it is rejected by mainstream Christianity today does not make heresy. I prefer to turn to God for the truth not the truth.

Only you are not turning to God or the Bible for truth, your doing the exact opposite, your turning to and idea of your own or an idea of man that appeals to yours or his or their sense of justice, etc, but that does not make it true and it is most certainly not grounded or rooted in any kind of Biblical or bible truth, etc...

Can you explain then why there is no real word for "hell" in both Hebrew or Greek?

But there is, the words are "Sheol", "Hades", and "Gehenna", do you research, K...

All along it has been the church that places such a heavy emphasis on hell NOT Jesus. Ask any preacher and he will tell you that fear is an extremely effective tactic.

I agree that way, way to many have not handled it very well at all, especially in the past, etc, but they didn't know either, etc...

But there is a hell, and the idea of some being eternally tormented forever and never ever getting out of there, is 100% entirely Biblical, and is 100% true, and is what Jesus and the apostles taught and/or warned about, etc, and should be taken very, very seriously, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Talk about a bad day at work. That beats all.

He's God, and takes great pleasure in doing it for eternity, etc...

For the Joy that was set before Him, etc, and that is eternally set before Him, etc...

God Bless!

 

[agapelove]

But there is, the words are "Sheol", "Hades", and "Gehenna", do you research, K...

Do you even know the meanings of those words?

I think you are the one that needs to do some research.