Did God commend or approve Rahab's lie?

[ChetSinger]

...Anyways, as for your point with a person trying to save Jews from the Nazi's during WWII: Well, one does not have to lie to save their lives. As I said before in this thread already, if a person was hiding Jews in their home during WWII, they could say to the Nazi's:

"Do you see any Jews around here?"
"I don't see any Jews here."
"But feel free to look around if you like."
​

So a person does not have to lie in order to protect life.

Hopefully not. But I think there's a close parallel in Exodus 1. When the midwives in Egypt lied to Pharaoh to save the lives of Hebrew babies Moses writes "So God dealt well with the midwives".

I think lying to the evil to save the lives of the innocent are difficult decisions for a believer to make. But there is a precedent in Exodus 1.

 

[ChetSinger]

Can I add that God himself uses deception in certain circumstances.

1 Kings 22:

“Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing on His right hand and on His left. 20And the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab to march up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’

And one suggested this, and another that. 21Then a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will entice him.’

‘By what means?’ asked the LORD. 22And he replied, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets.’

‘You will surely entice him and prevail,’ said the LORD. ‘Go and do it.’ 23So you see, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours, and the LORD has pronounced disaster against you.”

Yeah, that one's a classic. It brings to my mind Psalm 18:26:

You prove to be reliable to one who is blameless,
but you prove to be deceptive to one who is perverse.

 

[ChetSinger]

Did God commend or approve Rahab's lie?

I think the answer is definitely 'yes'. She's listed among the heroes of the faith in Hebrews 11 for what she did. And her lying was part of that.

Good question, btw.

 

[RDKirk]

Hopefully not. But I think there's a close parallel in Exodus 1. When the midwives in Egypt lied to Pharaoh to save the lives of Hebrew babies Moses writes "So God dealt well with the midwives".

I think lying to the evil to save the lives of the innocent are difficult decisions for a believer to make. But there is a precedent in Exodus 1.

The fact of the precedent makes it not a difficult decision for a believer to make. Clearly, "lying to the evil to save the lives of the innocent" is approved by God, so that is not a difficult decision. One only need to make sure the current situation properly fits the precedent.

 

[zoidar]

Is this just your own thinking or is this based on the Bible? We cannot let our own thoughts always rule. Yes, I believe our conscience holds part of the answer. We cannot ignore what is purely good, and right. Yet, is our motives good before both man and God? This is why we also need to look to the Bible, and not our own experience alone of what we think; Especially when these ideas may seem like a quick fix, and may be in the our own best interests and not the interests of God. I am actually a bit on the fence on this topic now (holding to two possible positions), and I am asking the Lord for the answer again, and I am doing a topical study on lying to determine the truth on this matter. You know, that whole "Berean" thing?

The two positions I think are a possibility are:

#1. Rahab lied, but it was not done for entirely selfish motives (but to protect others), and God was able to look past this as a minor transgression, and look to her faith.

#2. Rahab did not lie according to the 9th commandment (which is to bear false witness to cover a sin or to be untruthful to one's fellow Israelite), and she was employing an OT saint art of war tactic to protect life.​

I will update this new line of thinking at the beginning of my thread, too.

Anyways, as for your point with a person trying to save Jews from the Nazi's during WWII: Well, one does not have to lie to save their lives. As I said before in this thread already, if a person was hiding Jews in their home during WWII, they could say to the Nazi's:

"Do you see any Jews around here?"
"I don't see any Jews here."
"But feel free to look around if you like."
​

So a person does not have to lie in order to protect life.

​

Side Note:

Oh, and you may be interested in this thread topic I recently created here:

Can Christians Promote False Images of Jesus?

Peace, and blessings be unto you in the Lord.

My answer was from my own mind, what sounds like common sense to me. Of course something else could have been said like your example, but isn't hiding the truth also a lie, at least misleading someone? Wouldn't mislead be as "bad" as lying?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hopefully not. But I think there's a close parallel in Exodus 1. When the midwives in Egypt lied to Pharaoh to save the lives of Hebrew babies Moses writes "So God dealt well with the midwives".

I think lying to the evil to save the lives of the innocent are difficult decisions for a believer to make. But there is a precedent in Exodus 1.

I think people just say that lying took place in Exodus 1 because it sounds good. Nothing in the text suggests that they lied. Now, I will admit that King David faking his insanity is akin to lying. He really was not insane. But nowhere in Scripture does it say that God approved of what he did, though.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My answer was from my own mind, what sounds like common sense to me. Of course something else could have been said like your example, but isn't hiding the truth also a lie, at least misleading someone? Wouldn't mislead be as "bad" as lying?

No. Hiding the truth is not lying. If that was the case, then Jesus would have lied to many people in the fact that He did not openly declare to all people that He was God Almighty in the flesh. Jesus even told people not to tell anyone of His miracles.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God's laws / rules aren't really set in stone...

Even Jesus broke Sabbath to do good works.

The utter silliness of man is they think laws are set in stone, even if the law becomes an obstacle to the greater good.

If Jesus actually broke the Sabbath, we would all be doomed.
He had to be our perfect sinless Lamb in order to die for our sins.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think the answer is definitely 'yes'. She's listed among the heroes of the faith in Hebrews 11 for what she did. And her lying was part of that.

Good question, btw.

You need to quote the actual verse that says, "And Rahab was justified by faith for lying to the guards" or something to that effect.

Problem.

You will not find any such verse that says that.
Only your assumptions imply such a thing, my friend.

 

[zoidar]

No. Hiding the truth is not lying. If that was the case, then Jesus would have lied to many people in the fact that He did not openly declare to all people that He was God Almighty in the flesh. Jesus even told people not to tell anyone of His miracles.

True ... but there may be situations where you just have two options, a yes or a no. If for an example you are filling out a form. Would it in such a situation be wrong or a sin to lie if it's saving lives?

 

[ChetSinger]

You need to quote the actual verse that says, "And Rahab was justified by faith for lying to the guards" or something to that effect.

Problem.

You will not find any such verse that says that.
Only your assumptions imply such a thing, my friend.

Afaik Rahab is one of the few people in the scriptures of whom nothing disparaging is ever said. I don't consider her lie a problem unless the scriptures say so.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

True ... but there may be situations where you just have two options, a yes or a no. If for an example you are filling out a form. Would it in such a situation wrong or a sin to lie if it's saving lives?

"He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me" (Matthew 10:37).

God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac.
So your analogy does not exactly fit according to Scripture.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Afaik Rahab is one of the few people in the scriptures of whom nothing disparaging is ever said. I don't consider her lie a problem unless the scriptures say so.

She was called a prostitute or harlot. That's pretty disparaging, my friend.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Afaik Rahab is one of the few people in the scriptures of whom nothing disparaging is ever said. I don't consider her lie a problem unless the scriptures say so.

But Revelation 21:8 says ALL liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. So... either:

(a) This was not the same kind of lying done in the traditional sense and it was a minor transgression because she was seeking to save life.

(b) She sought forgiveness over this sin with God later on, or:

(c) What she did was not the breaking of the 9th commandment and she was using an "art of war" tactic (of which the OT saint possibly employed, as well).

 

[ChetSinger]

But Revelation 21:8 says ALL liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. So... either she sought forgiveness over this sin with God later on, or what she did was not the breaking of the 9th commandment and she was using the art of war (of which the OT saint employed, as well).

She receives nothing but repeated praise for what she did. And her lie was a part of that. That lie had a context: the saving of lives. And she's praised for that? That's good enough for me.

 

[RDKirk]

I think people just say that lying took place in Exodus 1 because it sounds good. Nothing in the text suggests that they lied.

Scripture says:

The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah,"When you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live."

The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live.

Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, "Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?"

The midwives answered Pharaoh, "Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive." -- Exodus 1

So the midwives did, indeed, flat out lie to the Pharaoh.

Now, I will admit that King David faking his insanity is akin to lying. He really was not insane. But nowhere in Scripture does it say that God approved of what he did, though.

When scripture is critical of an action, it either shows the negative consequences of that action or a later narrator explicitly criticizes the action. That doesn't happen here. David's ruse is shown as completely successful and there is no criticism of it.

People who criticize what God Himself does not criticize are trying to be holier than the Lord.

 

[RDKirk]

No. Hiding the truth is not lying. If that was the case, then Jesus would have lied to many people in the fact that He did not openly declare to all people that He was God Almighty in the flesh. Jesus even told people not to tell anyone of His miracles.

Yes, it is in circumstances where the questioner deserves the truth and God has called for the truth to be told.

For instance, Leviticus 5 makes it clear that when an eyewitness of an incident and fails to come forward in court, that directly a sin.

Where it is not a sin is in combat (physical combat in the OT, spiritual combat in the NT) against the enemies of God's people and God's mission.

 

[RDKirk]

She was called a prostitute or harlot. That's pretty disparaging, my friend.

She was called a "harlot" before she displayed faith; she was not a harlot afterward. In fact, she became an ancestor of Jesus Himself. Scripture actually displays how far a person can be brought by faith, so that:

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. -- 2 Corinthians 5

But in your effort to prove your erroneous point, you now go so far as to declare unclean a woman whom the Lord has made clean.

 

[1213]

People seem to think this way based on a misunderstanding on James 2:25.

"Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?"
(James 2:25).​

They think this verse is saying that God was in agreement with Rahab's lie ....

Ok, thanks, now I found the OT scriptures also (Joshua 2).

…Yes, the men came to me, but I didn't know whence they were: and it happened about the time of the shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out; where the men went I don't know: pursue after them quickly; for you will overtake them….
Joshua 2:4

It is possible that she didn’t really lie. It may be that she didn’t know where did they come and it is possible that they went out when it was dark and she didn’t know where did they go. It is possible that they came back and were in her house, but she didn’t directly say that they are not in her house.

So, in other words, I don’t think she lied, she just told the truth in such way that the people were not harmed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Scripture says:

The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah,"When you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live."

The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live.

Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, "Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?"

The midwives answered Pharaoh, "Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive." -- Exodus 1

So the midwives did, indeed, flat out lie to the Pharaoh.

Both statements are true, and they only revealed one truth to the Pharaoh. So no. It's not a lie. It's not like the midwives said to the Pharaoh, "We are weak women who cannot hurt a monkey, and we did not even have any weapons or means to kill the children."

Now, if they said that, it would be obvious they were lying or something, but such was not the case.

Also, it says the midwives feared God. So this means they feared God and not the Pharaoh. So there would have been no need to lie to the Pharaoh. Again, the text does not say they lied.

When scripture is critical of an action, it either shows the negative consequences of that action or a later narrator explicitly criticizes the action. That doesn't happen here. David's ruse is shown as completely successful and there is no criticism of it.

People who criticize what God Himself does not criticize are trying to be holier than the Lord.

Lot is praised as being a righteous man, but his offering up his daughters to a bunch of Sodomites a righteous act or deed? I don't believe so. Lot was generally a righteous man, but his actions were not always perfect. In fact, Lot later got drunk and this led to his own daughters taking advantage of him so as to get pregnant by him. The seed of these two daughters were later destroyed by God (Showing his disapproval of that kind of offspring or action). So no. Not everything in the Bible has to condemn something so out in the open and obvious for it to be condemned. Just tuning into our moral compass is all it takes.