Savior of the World, or Eternal Failure?

[JacksBratt]

And no He will not accept it, otherwise everyone who says to Jesus Lord Lord will enter heaven which is exactly what He said would NOT happen.

Agreed.

 

[BNR32FAN]

We seem to have gone full circle back to the contradiction you pointed out.

And since when is the savior of few, a Savior (capital S) at all?
Sounds like a failure to me. (no disrespect intended) I believe Jesus succeeded in being the Savior of the whole world. (his mission) Damnationists disagree.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Dishonest?
You were attempting to nullify one scripture with another. Bible versus Bible.

Was this to claim that NOT every knee will bow, and NOT every tongue confess?
Or just to claim that it would be to none effect? Or that God will only accept it from a select group? (even though it was genuine)

But you still haven’t explained how that could happen without contradicting Matthew 7:21-27, Luke 12:10, and Mark 14:21

 

[FineLinen]

Today over 15,000 children under age 5 die. That is repeated worldwide every day.

There are over 30,000 diseases our species endures.

Another pandemic has invaded our world.

And the Christian of various persuasions has a clear answer:

Away you go into everlasting torment forever and ever & ever.

Oh please spare me such stupidity !

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No more let sins and sorrows grow,
nor thorns infest the ground;
he comes to make his blessings flow
far as the curse is found,
far as the curse is found,
far as, far as the curse is found. -Isaac Watts-

 

[Neogaia777]

Good answer...

I agree, good answer, since he killed himself (anyway) knowing that, etc, despite what he had done, etc, even knowing who he and what he was, etc...

Couldn't handle it I guess, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Saint Steven]

OK... let's get this straight.. Everyone is deserving of hell.. Everyone is heading there..

God does not "send" people to hell.. He gives them entrance to Heaven if they accept His generous gift of salvation through His Sons massive sacrifice on the cross...

That is the Damnationist view.
Thanks, but I was already painfully aware of it. I was raised Evangelical Protestant.

No one deserves hell. NO ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even a lifetime of the most horrendous sin imaginable should only earn a person a number of lifetimes locked up in a "humane" prison. (I know, I know...)

Eternal conscious torment in the Lake of Fire (bobbing in brimstone) with no hope of escape is unthinkable for even ten minutes.

Let's get this straight... I'm pretty sure God doesn't appreciate being characterized this way. I would rather be a Universal Restorationist and be wrong than a Damnationist and be right.

If I'm wrong, I will be happy to apologize to God for having such high regard for his character.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, we go through the test of fire..

We are already citizens of heaven..

we go through the fire which burns away any unworthy works and actions..

We come out the other side.. some with nothing but their salvation.. others with some crowns and rewards..

others with many crowns and rewards for works done on earth, not for our salvation.. but as Gods feet and hands as being already part of the body of Christ..

Not to earn salvation but actions we did after acquiring salvation.

Apply that to everyone and you just described Universal Restoration.

- His mercy endures forever. Ps.118, Ps.136
- His loving kindness is everlasting. Ps.118, Ps.136
- Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13

 

[Saint Steven]

The idea that people can earn salvation by time spent in hell..

I said no such thing.

 

[Der Alte]

I think it is a fallacy to claim that anyone doesn't want salvation.
The claim of Damnationists is that those in hell wanted to be there.
This simply CANNOT be.

Several years ago I was watching a special on TV. I don't remember if it was Easter or Christmas, tourists were trying to visit the known sites relating to the NT. As they attempted to enter one, a muslim blocked their way. One person said "We are just trying to worship God." The muslim said "G* D* your God to hell." Sounds to me like that guy did not want salvation.

 

[Der Alte]

That is the Damnationist view.
Thanks, but I was already painfully aware of it. I was raised Evangelical Protestant.
No one deserves hell. NO ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even a lifetime of the most horrendous sin imaginable should only earn a person a number of lifetimes locked up in a "humane" prison. (I know, I know...)
Eternal conscious torment in the Lake of Fire (bobbing in brimstone) with no hope of escape is unthinkable for even ten minutes.
Let's get this straight... I'm pretty sure God doesn't appreciate being characterized this way. I would rather be a Universal Restorationist and be wrong than a Damnationist and be right.
If I'm wrong, I will be happy to apologize to God for having such high regard for his character.

Here is what I read.
"God must feel exactly as I feel. Anything I don't like God must not like either. What is offensive to me must be offensive to God also. etc.

 

[Saint Steven]

It is no good if you are told to be friends with anyone..

Right. You at least need to hold a gun to their head. (that works) - lol

Which is exactly how Damnationism works. "God has a wonderful plan for your life. Receive the free gift of eternal life. Or choose to burn forever in hell if you prefer." (no pressure) "You could die at any moment, so don't delay. Because then it will be too late." (then you're toast)

 

[Saint Steven]

Some even stating that "Hell is where all the fun people will be"..

Do you suppose God is big enough to handle that sort of criticism?
Or does he have white hot fury reserved for any who oppose him?

 

[Saint Steven]

But you still haven’t explained how that could happen without contradicting Matthew 7:21-27, Luke 12:10, and Mark 14:21

You go first. - lol

Saint Steven said: ↑
We seem to have gone full circle back to the contradiction you pointed out.

 

[FineLinen]

Do you suppose God is big enough to handle that sort of criticism?
Or does he have white hot fury reserved for any who oppose him?

"The secret of the mystery is: God is always greater.

No matter how great we think Him to be, His love is always greater." -Brennan Manning-

The love of God never fails: EVER!

 

[Der Alte]

Apply that to everyone and you just described Universal Restoration.
- His mercy endures forever. Ps.118, Ps.136
- His loving kindness is everlasting. Ps.118, Ps.136
- Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13

Funny how "forever" and "everlasting" means eternal, unending etc when they suit UR-ites but when it contradicts their UR assumptions/presuppositions then "eternal" becomes the nonsensical term "age-during."

 

[JacksBratt]

Today over 15,000 children under age 5 die. That is repeated worldwide every day.

There are over 30,000 diseases our species endures.

Another pandemic has invaded our world.

And the Christian of various persuasions has a clear answer:

Away you go into everlasting torment forever and ever & ever.

Oh please spare me such stupidity !

Search = "eternal hell"

Your search query has yielded no results. Please modify your query and try again.

Search = "eternal torment"

Your search query has yielded no results. Please modify your query and try again.

No more let sins and sorrows grow,
nor thorns infest the ground;
he comes to make his blessings flow
far as the curse is found,
far as the curse is found,
far as, far as the curse is found. -Isaac Watts-

Nope.... nope.... nope...

Children who are not of an age that they have reached a mental maturity of being able to understand and consciously be responsible for their actions... do not go to hell...

Nor does anyone that never attains a mental ability to be held accountable for their actions and eternal place.


Do you spank or discipline a child for soiling its diaper? Throwing it's food on the floor? Pulling over a lamp....

Nonsense.. Neither would a God who personifies love.

Those who enter eternity outside of the presence of God... are there as beings fully aware and conscious of their just judgement.

 

[JacksBratt]

No one deserves hell. NO ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow...... that is all I can muster.... WOW......

Actually.... No One Deserves Heaven....

 

[JacksBratt]

Apply that to everyone and you just described Universal Restoration.

- His mercy endures forever. Ps.118, Ps.136
- His loving kindness is everlasting. Ps.118, Ps.136
- Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13

Those that don't accept Christ.. and reject Him and His gift of salvation.. will be seen as unrighteous and be totally consumed by the fire....
Hows that for universal justice...

Only the blood of the lamb will save us from that fire.. If you didn't ask for it... You won't have it..

 

[JacksBratt]

I said no such thing.

You stated the Judas could be "corrected or restored"..

Just how is that not earning his way into heaven?

 

[JacksBratt]

Several years ago I was watching a special on TV. I don't remember if it was Easter or Christmas, tourists were trying to visit the known sites relating to the NT. As they attempted to enter one, a muslim blocked their way. One person said "We are just trying to worship God." The muslim said "G* D* your God to hell." Sounds to me like that guy did not want salvation.

Two thumbs way up.. Some here are delusional.

 

[Neogaia777]

That is the Damnationist view.
Thanks, but I was already painfully aware of it. I was raised Evangelical Protestant.

No one deserves hell. NO ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even a lifetime of the most horrendous sin imaginable should only earn a person a number of lifetimes locked up in a "humane" prison. (I know, I know...)

Eternal conscious torment in the Lake of Fire (bobbing in brimstone) with no hope of escape is unthinkable for even ten minutes.

Let's get this straight... I'm pretty sure God doesn't appreciate being characterized this way. I would rather be a Universal Restorationist and be wrong than a Damnationist and be right.

If I'm wrong, I will be happy to apologize to God for having such high regard for his character.

Or is it such a low regard for truth, or maybe thinking you know better, or are more just, etc...?

Just some food for thought...?

Some are eternally consciously tormented, for that is what scripture says, but the big question is, and where everyone gets hung up, is "why", etc, or "what for", etc...

I've explained my point of view on it, that it has to be a 100% free will decision, for one, and that it could be somewhere within the grounds of truly having that kind of choice and/or truly free will choosing decision, etc, and doing or chossing wrongly or badly, etc, in spite of that, etc, in this case the individual themselves would also have to be, from like "within", truly fully conscious and aware of just how truly wrong it was, etc, but/and/or yet doing it or choosing it anyway, etc, like hardening your heart or choosing to be pharisitical in nature, like rejecting love, etc, spiting on it, etc, fully knowing 100% completely and truly just how wrong it was from within, but not only just how wrong it was, but also 100% having a 100% and completely truly true free will decision or ability to choose or do or otherwise, but not doing or choosing it anyway regardless of all of that, etc (not choosing the right choice that they would 100% know is 100% right, etc)...

Not ones who did not do it without "this" though, or ones who maybe did not fully completely have this 100% truly free will choice or decision, and did not have this oh so heavy conviction from within, and didn't listen to it anyway, etc, anyway, not ones who did not fully have an full accurate full on knowing of the truth (from within) that gives one that kind of free will, and then full on rejected and/or spit on the truth anyway, etc...

Not ones who would choose to be so or do such because they were say, hurt by love in the past or something, and not because of something or anything from their past, or anything at all that might have made them predisposed to choose the way they did, or be or become the way they are, or quote/unquote "chose" the way they did, etc, not anything at all like that at all, " at all", etc, and not for whom it was really not a 100% true free will decision, etc, cause I'm talking about a 100% truly true free will decision, etc, and not something (or someone) that is not or is otherwise, etc...

Then rejecting truth and rejecting love anyway or regardless, etc...

Choosing to be pharisitical regardless, etc, or something like that, in spite of having this kind of decision and full ability to truly free will chose, and full well fully knowing the right from the wrong choice and just how wrong the wrong choice was/is, etc, and just how right the right decision is, etc, and free will choosing the wrong anyway, and never changing, etc, without anything affecting that but them, etc, or having ever decided that for them, etc, except them, etc...

God Bless!