Who Changed Genesis?

[HARK!]

At the beginning of the Common Era, a new group arose among the Jews: the Zealots (in Hebrew, Ka-na-im). These anti-Roman rebels were active for more than six decades, and later instigated the Great Revolt. Their most basic belief was that all means were justified to attain political and religious liberty.

The Great Revolt (66 - 70 CE)

 

[solid_core]

(CLV) Ex 3:15
And Elohim said further to Moses: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, Yahweh, the Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac and the Elohim of Jacob, He has sent me to you. This is My Name for the eon, And this the Remembrance of Me for generation after generation.

Yes, the "I am who I am" was given to Israel as the name for God, so they can distinguish Him in the world of paganism and polytheism.

We now, who are monotheists, do not need a specific name for God, who is one and only. Nobody will (except of intentionally misleading atheists) confuse it with Zeus or Perun or Thor.

There was also another tradition of calling God, "El" or "Elohim". And variations to it, like El Shaddai.

But its not of much importance for us today, who have revealed God in flesh, Jesus Christ, as our God and savior.

 

[HARK!]

Yes, the "I am who I am" was given to Israel as the name for God

Please learn to read Hebrew; and please stop derailing my thread.

אהיה =/= יהוה

 

[Minister Monardo]

Please learn to read Hebrew; and please stop derailing my thread.

Since when do your threads have rails?
I always feel like hacking through the jungle with a machete.

 

[HARK!]

The Babylonian Talmud relates the dramatic story of Rabbi Johanan Ben Zakkai‘s escape from the Roman siege of Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. Before the Romans breach the walls of the city, Ben Zakkai abandons the spiritual and governmental capital of the Judean state, even while the Temple is still standing. He foresees the fall of Jerusalem, and so he has himself smuggled out of the city in a coffin. Through flattery, and by humbling himself before the Roman general, he is able to negotiate a deal, allowing him to establish a new center of learning in the city of Yavneh (Gittin 56b).

Judaism after the Temple | My Jewish Learning

 

[HARK!]

Since when do your threads have rails?
I always feel like hacking through the jungle with a machete.

That needs to change, at least for this thread. Although CF rules apply to every thread. If one doesn't pay close attention; he'll miss important details in this thread. This one isn't so easy to follow.

 

[Der Alte]

Please learn to read Hebrew; and please stop derailing my thread.
אהיה =/= יהוה

Jewish Encyclopedia-Names of God
In appearance, Yhwh (יהוה) is the third person singular imperfect "kal" of the verb ( הוה ("to be"), meaning, therefore, "He is," or "He will be," or, perhaps, "He lives," the root idea of the word being, probably, "to blow," "to breathe," and hence, "to live." With this explanation agrees the meaning of the name given in Ex. iii. 14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person—"I am" (אהיה, from ( היה, the later equivalent of the archaic stem ( הוה). The meaning would, therefore, be "He who is self-existing, self-sufficient," or, more concretely, "He who lives," the abstract conception of pure existence being foreign to Hebrew thought. There is no doubt that the idea of life was intimately connected with the name Yhwh from early times. He is the living God, as contrasted with the lifeless gods of the heathen, and He is the source and author of life (comp. I Kings xviii.; Isa. xli. 26-29, xliv. 6-20; Jer. x. 10, 14; Gen. ii. 7; etc.). So familiar is this conception of God to the Hebrew mind that it appears in the common formula of an oath, "hai Yhwh" ( חי־יהוה = "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).
If the explanation of the form above given be the true one, the original pronunciation must have been Yahweh ((יהוה) or Yahaweh (יהוה). From this the contracted form Jah or Yah (יה ) is most readily explained, and also the forms Jeho or Yeho (יהו ), and Jo or Yo (יו contracted from יהו , which the word assumes in combination in the first part of compound proper names, and Yahu or Yah (יהו ) in the second part of such names. The fact may also be mentioned that in Samaritan poetry יהוה rimes with words similar in ending to Yahweh, and Theodoret ("Quæst. 15 in Exodum") states that the Samaritans pronounced the name Iαβέ. Epiphanius ascribes the same pronunciation to an early Christian sect. Clement of Alexandria, still more exactly, pronounces 'Iαουέ or 'Iαουαί, and Origen, 'Iα. Aquila wrote the name in archaic Hebrew letters. In the Jewish-Egyptian magic-papyri it appears as Ιαωουηε. At least as early as the third century B.C. the name seems to have been regarded by the Jews as a "nomen ineffabile," on the basis of a somewhat extreme interpretation of Ex. xx. 7 and Lev. xxiv. 11 (see Philo, "De Vita Mosis," iii. 519, 529). Written only in consonants, the true pronunciation was forgotten by them. The Septuagint, and after it the New Testament, invariably render κύριος ("the Lord").
Jewish Encyclopedia online​

 

[HARK!]

Whatever happened to the Sadducees, the opponents of the Pharisees? I find it interesting that we don't hear of them anymore.

I smell a Hegelian Dialectic; but I'm not going to follow the scent.

 

[Der Alte]

The Babylonian Talmud relates the dramatic story of Rabbi Johanan Ben Zakkai‘s escape from the Roman siege of Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. Before the Romans breach the walls of the city, Ben Zakkai abandons the spiritual and governmental capital of the Judean state, even while the Temple is still standing. He foresees the fall of Jerusalem, and so he has himself smuggled out of the city in a coffin. Through flattery, and by humbling himself before the Roman general, he is able to negotiate a deal, allowing him to establish a new center of learning in the city of Yavneh (Gittin 56b).
Judaism after the Temple | My Jewish Learning

I could not find this in the Babylonian Talmud Gittin 56b.
http://www.come-and-hear.com/gittin/gittin_56.html

 

[HARK!]

Yohanan ben Zakkai[a] (Hebrew: יוחנן בן זכאי‎, 1st century CE), sometimes abbreviated as Ribaz (ריב״ז) for Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai, was one of the Tannaim, an important Jewish sage in the era of the Second Temple, and a primary contributor to the core text of Rabbinical Judaism, the Mishnah. His name is often preceded by the honorific title, "Rabban." He is widely regarded as one of the most important Jewish figures of his time and his escape from the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, that allowed him to continue teaching, may have been instrumental in rabbinic Judaism surviving the destruction.

Upon the destruction of Jerusalem, Yochanan converted his school at Yavne into the Jewish religious centre,

In his role as leader of the Jewish Council,

he helped persuade the council


eventually Rabbinic Judaism emerged from the council's conclusions.




Yohanan ben Zakkai - Wikipedia

 

[HARK!]

I could not find this in the Babylonian Talmud Gittin 56b.
http://www.come-and-hear.com/gittin/gittin_56.html

Abba Sikra15 the head of the biryoni in Jerusalem was the son of the sister of Rabban Johanan b. Zakkai. [The latter] sent to him saying, Come to visit me privately. When he came he said to him, How long are you going to carry on in this way and kill all the people with starvation? He replied: What can I do? If I say a word to them, they will kill me. He said: Devise some plan for me to escape. Perhaps I shall be able to save a little. He said to him: Pretend to be ill, and let everyone come to inquire about you. Bring something evil smelling and put it by you so that they will say you are dead. Let then your disciples get under your bed, but no others, so that they shall not notice that you are still light, since they know that a living being is lighter than a corpse. He did so, and R. Eliezer went under the bier from one side and R. Joshua from the other. When they reached the door, some men wanted to put a lance through the bier. He said to them: Shall [the Romans] say. They have pierced their Master? They wanted to give it a push. He said to them: Shall they say that they pushed their Master? They opened a town gate for him and he got out.

When he reached the Romans16 he said, Peace to you, O king, peace to you, O king. He [Vespasian] said: Your life is forfeit on two counts, one because I am not a king and you call me king, and again, if I am a king, why did you not come to me before now? He replied: As for your saying that you are not a king,

Babylonian Talmud: Gittin 56

 

[Minister Monardo]

That needs to change, at least for this thread. Although CF rules apply to every thread. If one doesn't pay close attention; he'll miss important details in this thread. This one isn't so easy to follow.

Here is the monorail:
2 Co 13. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.”
Since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you. For though He was crucified in weakness, yet He lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall live with Him by the power of God toward you.
For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
Become complete.
Be of good comfort,
be of one mind,
live in peace;
and the God of love and peace will be with you.

 

[HARK!]

The Pharisees
The most important of the three were the Pharisees because they are the spiritual fathers of modern Judaism. Their main distinguishing characteristic was a belief in an Oral Law that God gave to Moses at Sinai along with the Torah. The Torah, or Written Law, was akin to the U.S. Constitution in the sense that it set down a series of laws that were open to interpretation. The Pharisees believed that God also gave Moses the knowledge of what these laws meant and how they should be applied. This oral tradition was codified and written down roughly three centuries later in what is known as the Talmud.


The Sadducees disappeared around 70 A.D., after the destruction of the Second Temple. None of the writings of the Sadducees has survived, so the little we know about them comes from their Pharisaic opponents.

Pharisees, Sadducees & Essenes

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But the text doesn't say "Jots and tittles" it says in Greek "iota" and "keraia" the KJV just translates this to jots and tittles. You could just as easily argue that Jesus was referring to a Greek based text (since the text uses Greek words referring to Greek letters) not a Hebrew one. But Christ was not trying to make a point about referring to a Hebrew base text or a Greek base text, his point is that the smallest mark would not pass away and when we turn it into a language argument we have missed the point completely. The only compelling argument would be if the Greek words were actually transliterated from Hebrew (for jot and tittle), but since they are not, it's arbitrary.

So you think a jot and a tittle is different than an iota and a keraia?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Above was just the teaser.
Here is part 1 of the 5 part series.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I believe the LXX is a counterfeit. The KJV is the pure Word of God for today. Back then: Jesus quoted from Hebrews texts and not Greek. For salvation was of the Jews.

Jots and tittles are from the Hebrew, and not Greek, and Jesus talked about jots and tittles.

The irony in this post is amazing.

 

[Minister Monardo]

The irony in this post is amazing.

Irony? Yeshua quoted from no text. He is the author.

 

[HARK!]

I ended up watching the whole series. He makes some convincing arguments. He was doing great up until the end; when he started hugging the KJV.

 

[DamianWarS]

Yeshua taught the teachers at the age of 12. He is the Dayspring from on high.

Right... The text still doesn't say "jots and tittles"