Does Matthew 22:14 prove Calvinism and Predestination?

[BNR32FAN]

Not according to Paul.

“Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:12-15‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[Dave L]

“Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:12-15‬ ‭NASB‬‬

This is why free will cannot save. It, in fact, removes people from the position where salvation happens.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is why free will cannot save. It, in fact, removes people from the position where salvation happens.

You keep implying that somehow our free will negates the necessity of Jesus’ sacrifice. I have never said anything that remotely supports this claim of yours and there is no reason that free will would cancel out the necessity of Jesus’ sacrifice and atonement.

 

[Dave L]

You keep implying that somehow our free will negates the necessity of Jesus’ sacrifice. I have never said anything that remotely supports this claim of yours and there is no reason that free will would cancel out the necessity of Jesus’ sacrifice and atonement.

Free will is not necessary for salvation. You cannot choose to be saved. Salvation happens before the will comes into play.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Free will is not necessary for salvation. You cannot choose to be saved. Salvation happens before the will comes into play.

Ok so how exactly does that work? God decided to grant repentance to some but not to all and as a result, those whom were not granted repentance from God will not be able to repent and those whom God has granted repentance to cannot fail to repent? Is that correct?

 

[bbbbbbb]

The blood of Christ atones for sins. You deny this when you turn faith into a sacrament and place your trust in it.

That is a very fine distinction which synergists such as BNR32FAN either fail to grasp or dogmatically reject.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That is a very fine distinction which synergists such as BNR32FAN either fail to grasp or dogmatically reject.

No it’s actually a false claim and I have repeatedly informed Dave that no one could be saved without Christ’s sacrifice. Furthermore I don’t know of any Christian denomination that relies on the sacraments for atonement if sin and I doubt that you or Dave can provide any actual proof to support this claim.

 

[Dave L]

Ok so how exactly does that work? God decided to grant repentance to some but not to all and as a result, those whom were not granted repentance from God will not be able to repent and those whom God has granted repentance to cannot fail to repent? Is that correct?

You do not distinguish between OT Law and NT grace.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You do not distinguish between OT Law and NT grace.

Never a simple yes or no answer.

 

[bbbbbbb]

No it’s actually a false claim and I have repeatedly informed Dave that no one could be saved without Christ’s sacrifice. Furthermore I don’t know of any Christian denomination that relies on the sacraments for atonement if sin and I doubt that you or Dave can provide any actual proof to support this claim.

Thank you for your reply. You have given a clear indication that you fail to understand his finely drawn distinction.

I will attempt to make it clearer if I can.

As we all know, there are individuals who are wholeheartedly trusting in their works to save them. Many of them include faith in Jesus Church as part and parcel of their soteriology. These are syncretists who require both faith and works to be saved. Faith, in their view, is quite insufficient. Are you a syncretist?

 

[Dave L]

Never a simple yes or no answer.

It's true, you don't understand the differences.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thank you for your reply. You have given a clear indication that you fail to understand his finely drawn distinction.

I will attempt to make it clearer if I can.

As we all know, there are individuals who are wholeheartedly trusting in their works to save them. Many of them include faith in Jesus Church as part and parcel of their soteriology. These are syncretists who require both faith and works to be saved. Faith, in their view, is quite insufficient. Are you a syncretist?

I’m curious about these “syncretist”, do they themselves openly state that they are trusting in their works to save them or is that an accusation made by others?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's true, you don't understand the differences.

no I completely understand the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant I just don’t see what that has to do with the question I asked you. So I will as it again, perhaps you can explain in more detail how your answer is relevant to the question.

Ok so how exactly does that work? God decided to grant repentance to some but not to all and as a result, those whom were not granted repentance from God will not be able to repent and those whom God has granted repentance to cannot fail to repent? Is that correct?

 

[Dave L]

no I completely understand the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant I just don’t see what that has to do with the question I asked you. So I will as it again, perhaps you can explain in more detail how your answer is relevant to the question.

You read the gospel just as you do the law. The gospel is not the law.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You read the gospel just as you do the law. The gospel is not the law.

See your just making accusations and still avoiding the question because you know any answer you give I’ve already destroyed with irrefutable scripture.

 

[Dave L]

See your just making accusations and still avoiding the question because you know any answer you give I’ve already destroyed with irrefutable scripture.

If it was irrefutable, why are you still here?

 

[BNR32FAN]

If it was irrefutable, why are you still here?

to shed light on the truth and to defend my God.

 

[Dave L]

to shed light on the truth and to defend my God.

Why did Jesus say only the elect could come to him? And many stopped following him because of that?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why did Jesus say only the elect could come to him? And many stopped following him because of that?

That’s not what He said. He said no one can come to Me unless it is granted him by The Father.

 

[Dave L]

That’s not what He said. He said no one can come to Me unless it is granted him by The Father.

= the same thing. Plus many no longer followed him because of that.