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The Demise of Evolution

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Subduction Zone

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Give me substantive proof that you actually exist.
Foolish demand. Person to person it would warrant a slap.

The problem is that you have a faulty understanding of logic and evidence. If you are unwilling to learn you will only repeat bad arguments.
 
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Foolish demand. Person to person it would warrant a slap.

The problem is that you have a faulty understanding of logic and evidence. If you are unwilling to learn you will only repeat bad arguments.
You can't say it's foolish because that requires logical thinking from a mind that has been designed and cannot be the product of time and chance. If you believe you are a product of evolution then your brain is just a collection of molecules and incapable of logic. Logic can only come from a brain that has been designed to think logically, and therefore has to be the product of a greater logical mind.

So, no cigar this time.
 
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Subduction Zone

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You can't say it's foolish because that requires logical thinking from a mind that has been designed and cannot be the product of time and chance. If you believe you are a product of evolution then your brain is just a collection of molecules and incapable of logic. Logic can only come from a brain that has been designed to think logically, and therefore has to be the product of a greater logical mind.

So, no cigar this time.
I am sorry, but your logic is faulty. That is why I offered to go over the basics with you. No need to bring up evolution or the other sciences that you do not understand.
 
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I am sorry, but your logic is faulty. That is why I offered to go over the basics with you. No need to bring up evolution or the other sciences that you do not understand.
I have gone over the basics of evolution by reading the book "Evolution" by Ken Ham. He explains it very well and to my satisfaction.

I know enough about science that everything that we can observe in the world around us and the cosmos cannot have be created out of nothing, so it doesn't matter how many billions of years pass by, chance cannot produce anything out of absolutely nothing. The big bang could not have happened out of nothing either, because there needs to be combustible materials and someone to light the fuse.

Science also tells us that an explosion causes destruction and chaos, not construction and order. So, a big bang producing an orderly universe is not scientific. Also science tells us that the extreme heat produced by such a large explosion would render everything totally sterile, so life cannot happen out of sterility. Life has to happen from life, and it cannot happen from a sterile universe.

Actually, because you have a mind capable of logical thought, you contradict evolution, because a bag of molecules produced by time and chance cannot have logical thought.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I have gone over the basics of evolution by reading the book "Evolution" by Ken Ham. He explains it very well and to my satisfaction.

I know enough about science that everything that we can observe in the world around us and the cosmos cannot have be created out of nothing, so it doesn't matter how many billions of years pass by, chance cannot produce anything out of absolutely nothing. The big bang could not have happened out of nothing either, because there needs to be combustible materials and someone to light the fuse.

Science also tells us that an explosion causes destruction and chaos, not construction and order. So, a big bang producing an orderly universe is not scientific. Also science tells us that the extreme heat produced by such a large explosion would render everything totally sterile, so life cannot happen out of sterility. Life has to happen from life, and it cannot happen from a sterile universe.

Actually, because you have a mind capable of logical thought, you contradict evolution, because a bag of molecules produced by time and chance cannot have logical thought.
No, Ken Ham is at best a fool when it comes to the sciences.

I am beginning to think you may be just a poe with a very limited repertoire.
 
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No, Ken Ham is at best a fool when it comes to the sciences.

I am beginning to think you may be just a poe with a very limited repertoire.
When a person cannot answer logical questions, abuse is the only recourse. Better be careful of the flaming rule!
 
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Subduction Zone

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When a person cannot answer logical questions, abuse is the only recourse. Better be careful of the flaming rule!
What abuse? I was being kind. Please, no serious debater would site such a dishonest fool.

Did you watch him debate Bill Nye? If so do you know the moment that he utterly lost?
 
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What abuse? I was being kind. Please, no serious debater would site such a dishonest fool.

Did you watch him debate Bill Nye? If so do you know the moment that he utterly lost?
I must have a look at that one to see for myself!
I have watched a whole lot of videos on AiG, and they make a lot of sense to me, and I have two of Ken Ham's books, which provide much good evidence for creation.

But I will watch the debate and will come back to you with my comment. Oh, just to assure you, I am not some 14 year old wet behind the ears. I am an old warrior having had many debates on this forum over the years, and no evolutionist has yet been able to prove their case with me.

So, I hope your are better than your predecessors.
 
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Jimmy D

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I have watched a whole lot of videos on AiG, and they make a lot of sense to me, and I have two of Ken Ham's books, which provide much good evidence for creation.

I’m curious as to what you feel is the most compelling piece of evidence for creation you’ve found on AIG?
 
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What abuse? I was being kind. Please, no serious debater would site such a dishonest fool.

Did you watch him debate Bill Nye? If so do you know the moment that he utterly lost?
I watched the debate and I didn't see anything of what you are describing. Both put their views plainly and one didn't
"defeat" the other in any question that was asked.
 
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I’m curious as to what you feel is the most compelling piece of evidence for creation you’ve found on AIG?
That the world and everything in it shows intricate design which could never have happened by time and chance.
 
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Jimmy D

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That the world and everything in it shows intricate design which could never have happened by time and chance.

That’s an assertion, not evidence.

I could just as easily state that the world and everything in it appears to me to be the result of natural laws and processes over long periods of time.

How do we ascertain who’s correct?
 
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Kylie

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Give me substantive proof that you actually exist.

Are you actually going with the idea that you're a brain in a jar and just think you're experiencing a non-brain-in-a-jar life?

Is THAT your argument against evolution?
 
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Ophiolite

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If we are a product of evolution, put together by time and chance, then we are just bags of molecules and nothing more.
Two points:
  • We are put together by time, chance, natural selection and environment. Those are two additional, powerful, relevant "forces".
  • You seem quite unaware of emergent properties. I suggest you investigate the concept then you will be less likely to make empty remarks.
So, what evidence do we have that we actually have logical minds?
Based upon the content of your posts the evidence points strongly towards the absence of logic in our minds. Fortunately, a single instance from seven and a half billion is not a convincing demonstration.

Are we even here? How do we know?
We don't know and we probably cannot know. However, if we adopt a pragmatic approach, assuming that we are here and that this is real, we find that things proceed pretty much as we would expect if we were here. That experience, seemingly duplicated by billions of people, strongly suggests our initial assumption was valid. Nevertheless, it remains unproven, and we should remain alert for contrary evidence. I do. Do you?

How do you know if you have the right answers?
I don't. Surely that is obvious? I do know that if we use the scientific method then we can validate the answers multiple times, in various ways, making it increasingly unlikely the answers are wrong - or, thereby invalidating them and acquiring new answers that stand up to repeated testing.

You might not even know the right questions!
Of course we don't know all the right questions. Surely that is obvious? Each new validated answer generates more new questions. That is the beauty and inspiration of science.

If your logical mind is the result of time and chance, how do you know if it is actually logical and not chaotic in its thinking?
The logical mind is a product of time and chance and natural selection and environment. Unfortunately, most humans do not have a logical mind and those who do, do not have it fully engaged all the time. Fortunately, the scientific method overcomes these limitations, imposing structure, logic and order upon our investigations.

So, if your thinking can't be proved to be logical, then how can anything you say make sense?
See above.
 
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Ophiolite

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Has evolution dmised yet? This is taking ages.
That's right. I'm pretty sure I read of its imminent demise in the 1980s, then the 1990s, the turn of the millenium, the first decade of the new century. It's end was just around the corner. And yet here it is, with several tens of thousands of further papers validating and explaining more and more aspects of it and the number of deniers steadily falling, while their withered arguments continue to tumble in the wind. When the last of them is gone I may have to get a proper hobby!
 
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