Spiritual experiences.

[TruthSeek3r]

Well, I think that there are a number of things going on, but one of the things is that a lot of Charismatics have practically hinged their assurance of their salvation on their experiences. But when the experiences disappear or grow cold, or if they have a similar experience with something not necessarily related to Christianity, it's like their foundation is ripped out from them and they question whether God loves them still or whether it was all real in the first place.

That's why I think it's good to say one "can" have an experience, but not that one "should". I've often seen Christians judged by a lack of experience too - if you experience less then your commitment to Jesus is questioned, or your passion is under question, and the most mature Christians are those with the most "experiences".

I think you are too biased to talking about Charismatics. Forget about Charismatics for a while. The book of Acts is not talking about Charismatics, they were not even around at the time. What is your understanding of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the manifestations of someone who is filled with the Holy Spirit from a Biblical point of view (again, forget about Charismatics) ? When someone is filled with the Holy Spirit, is there any clear experience involved, or does it happen subconsciously, without the person being aware of it in the moment?

 

[Francis Drake]

A generous interpretation of this is rather tangential.

Care to explain what that comment means, as I've got no clue.

 

[HatGuy]

I think you are too biased to talk about Charistmatics. Forget about Charismatics for a while. The book of Acts is not talking about Charismatics, they were not even around at the time. What is your understanding of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the manifestations of someone who is filled with the Holy Spirit from a Biblical point of view (again, forget about Charismatics) ? When someone is filled with the Holy Spirit, is there any clear experience involved, or does it happen subconsciously, without the person being aware of it in the moment?

Perhaps, but given that I am charismatic and part of a charismatic church, and a pastor there, my concerns are somewhat pastoral .

These are tough questions with a lot of nuance - I'm not sure this is the right place for them. Perhaps a new thread?

 

[Francis Drake]

On the other hand scripture is true, it's safe so to speak.

Scripture itself is God breathed and thus perfectly true, but what difference does that make when men interpret it by their own intellect, when they could learn from their spirit?

The biggest danger for the body of Christ (as can be witnessed on the Forum) is that the meaning of scripture is invariably interpreted by intellectuals, theologians and academics, or should I say, Pharisees, Lawyers, and Teachers of the Law, all condemned by Jesus.

Like the Jews of that period, Christians let these people interpret events for them because they are taught to fear getting things wrong.
Those attempting to interpret things by the spirit get constantly assailed by fearmongers warning the dangers of not sticking to their rules.

The truth is that whether it's spiritual experiences of life, or scriptures, both can only be interpreted by the spirit.
Using human intellect to interpret either, is no better than using a horoscope, despite it being the common practice of Christians.

 

[HatGuy]

Scripture itself is God breathed and thus perfectly true, but what difference does that make when men interpret it by their own intellect, when they could learn from their spirit?

The biggest danger for the body of Christ (as can be witnessed on the Forum) is that the meaning of scripture is invariably interpreted by intellectuals, theologians and academics, or should I say, Pharisees, Lawyers, and Teachers of the Law, all condemned by Jesus.

Like the Jews of that period, Christians let these people interpret events for them because they are taught to fear getting things wrong.
Those attempting to interpret things by the spirit get constantly assailed by fearmongers warning the dangers of not sticking to their rules.

The truth is that whether it's spiritual experiences of life, or scriptures, both can only be interpreted by the spirit.
Using human intellect to interpret either, is no better than using a horoscope, despite it being the common practice of Christians.

I'm a natural intellect. There's nothing I can do about it. I've tried. But I'm just too curious. I've learned that perhaps it's a gift and just needs to be used appropriately.

I think labelling intellectuals or theologians as some sort of oppressive elitist class is showing something of your own pride more than anything else.

The body is made of diverse gifts - God made it that way, we all better get used to it.

 

[Dave G.]

Scripture itself is God breathed and thus perfectly true, but what difference does that make when men interpret it by their own intellect, when they could learn from their spirit?

The biggest danger for the body of Christ (as can be witnessed on the Forum) is that the meaning of scripture is invariably interpreted by intellectuals, theologians and academics, or should I say, Pharisees, Lawyers, and Teachers of the Law, all condemned by Jesus.

Like the Jews of that period, Christians let these people interpret events for them because they are taught to fear getting things wrong.
Those attempting to interpret things by the spirit get constantly assailed by fearmongers warning the dangers of not sticking to their rules.

The truth is that whether it's spiritual experiences of life, or scriptures, both can only be interpreted by the spirit.
Using human intellect to interpret either, is no better than using a horoscope, despite it being the common practice of Christians.

Ya we call scripture a "living word" for a reason. I've had the HS witness to me by experience and also through the word. We have 740 churches world wide and about every pastor has had experiences inside and outside the confines of the text in the word of God. But they teach through the word. You can take it from there. I'm not here to argue or name call though.

God works in many mysterious ways, we don't even know the tip of the iceberg. He is a mighty and powerful God and the Holy Spirit is the most powerful entity on earth. The good news is He is for us and not against us. Amen to that !

 

[NBB]

Actually, if you don't experience anything from God at all , i would be worried.
The bible that is supposed to be example for us, is full with people that received things from God, i say it shouldn't be any different nowadays.

 

[HatGuy]

Actually, if you don't experience anything from God at all , i would be worried.
The bible that is supposed to be example for us, is full with people that received things from God, i say it shouldn't be any different nowadays.

What should they be worried about?

 

[Tigger45]

Good biblical theology and Godly spiritual experiences have their uses.

I always test spiritual experiences against scripture and true revelations of and encounters with the Lord have illuminated my understanding of scripture.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

These are tough questions with a lot of nuance - I'm not sure this is the right place for them. Perhaps a new thread?

This thread is about spiritual experiences, so technically you are not going to be off topic.

 

[com7fy8]

when they experience nothing,

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

This has to do with not only what we can experience, but what God wants to experience > how we are gentle and quiet in His love, I understand. What I get from this, among other things, is >

God is quiet. But if we do not experience Him, this can be because we are allowing noisy stuff in us to keep our attention away from Him. We can experience sharing with Him, by being quiet in His gentle and quiet love. And in the "gentle and quiet spirit" of God's love, we have His personal ruling in our "hearts" >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

I find that if I be quiet in myself and trust God to personally rule me, I can have peace with creativity for how to love each and every person. He is our Creator; in the ruling of His peace, He shares with us His own creativity, for how to love any person.

Often, I can be busy with imagining how I am going to control someone who is a problem for me; I can be criticizing the person. But then I can be corrected that this is not loving the person and having hope with compassion for the person; so then is when I realize I need to trust God to correct me so I am obeying how He rules me in His peace to love and care for the person, in prayer.

1 Timothy 2:1-4 says > "first of all" > to pray for any and all people, I understand. So, this can come to mind, to have me not first criticize and self-righteously judge people, but instead > "first of all" > care for them in prayer.

 

[Amittai]

"Those who study Scripture want you works to align with their theology."

Maybe I don't study Scripture enough, because I've said that in my own viewpoint, there isn't a dichotomy, unless I consider them wrong on the point.

To witness God at action teaches us regarding situations that may recur (with variations) in the future. The man in the other thread wanted his dinner, and wanted the restaurant and the family not to have an incident. All were encouraged by this, in a calm way. Francis, this was not a roller-coaster. Make His paths straight and may the hillls be laid low.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What should they be worried about?

My sheep hear my voice - this should be normative.

However this comes in a variety of ways.

Sometimes a peace about an action or timing.

Sometimes an inner desire.

Sometimes a dream.

Sometimes a word of scripture that witnesses deep within.

Sometimes an unexplainable chain of events - instead of a co-incidence we call it a God-incidence.

Sometimes a word spoken by another that just makes sense.

And each of these are confirmed by God the Holy Spirit inside and will align with the teachings of Scripture.

Always ask for confirmation and keep asking until you cant ask because you know that you know.

Always ask for wisdom to come with what you hear. The request for wisdom is always answered.

Now it can take time to learn what is not God.

His sheep however do hear His voice.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks all for participating in this thread - no theological violence detected !!!

 

[NBB]

What should they be worried about?

Because God is our father and he likes to do things to us, so if you don't experience anything from God ever...

 

[NBB]

We should be very thirsty of the things of God and what God can do.

 

[HatGuy]

Because God is our father and he likes to do things to us, so if you don't experience anything from God ever...

Then... ?

This is a friendly enquiry

 

[HatGuy]

My sheep hear my voice - this should be normative.

However this comes in a variety of ways.

Sometimes a peace about an action or timing.

Sometimes an inner desire.

Sometimes a dream.

Sometimes a word of scripture that witnesses deep within.

Sometimes an unexplainable chain of events - instead of a co-incidence we call it a God-incidence.

Sometimes a word spoken by another that just makes sense.

And each of these are confirmed by God the Holy Spirit inside and will align with the teachings of Scripture.

Always ask for confirmation and keep asking until you cant ask because you know that you know.

Always ask for wisdom to come with what you hear. The request for wisdom is always answered.

Now it can take time to learn what is not God.

His sheep however do hear His voice.

I agree in principle but what happens when there is no:

inner desire
peace
joy
dreams
unexplainable coincidences

And so on.

I'm not asking these questions to be contrarian or difficult, I am asking in light of some real-life cases.

 

[Scott Husted]

QUOTE="HatGuy, post: 74878732, member: 354015"]I'm a natural intellect. There's nothing I can do about it. I've tried. But I'm just too curious. I've learned that perhaps it's a gift and just needs to be used appropriately.

I think labelling intellectuals or theologians as some sort of oppressive elitist class is showing something of your own pride more than anything else.

The body is made of diverse gifts - God made it that way, we all better get used to it.[/QUOTE]

Intellect is really a process of the soul.

Caiaphas said better for one man to die for the whole nation then the whole nation to die for one man, sounds logical to me. They knew what the Roman's were capable of doing. But he also said this by the spirit being the high priest that year.
So here's a man who was unaware he was even having a spiritual experience.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

I agree in principle but what happens when there is no:

inner desire
peace
joy
dreams
unexplainable coincidences

And so on.

I'm not asking these questions to be contrarian or difficult, I am asking in light of some real-life cases.

Galatians 5:19-22

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.​

Ephesians 5:17-20

17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
​

1 Corinthians 12:7-11

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
​

1 Corinthians 12:27-31

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
​

Acts 4:29-31

29 Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. 30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”
31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.
​

Basically, someone filled with the Holy Spirit should be manifesting the fruit of the Spirit, should be pursuing the greater gifts of the Spirit, and should be empowered to preach the gospel with boldness (the great commission), right? So, if someone is not experiencing anything of this, I would conclude that such a person is not living yet a life fully immersed in the Holy Spirit.