In Exodus 32:25-26, (1) the people are OUT OF CONTROL and (2) actions are described - there is no indication of choice - just actions are indicated for Moses said "Whoever is for the LORD, come to me" - the Levites acted as people "for the LORD" - the other people acted by abstaining from going to Moses thus showing to not be "for the LORD" - the word "choose" is not in the passage explicitly nor implicitly. You have added to scripture again by writing "Everybody could have come if they so wished" which is not in the scripture.
Your words "If without their consent, some men are pre-programmed to get "saved", then their lives were never in the slightest danger of God's wrath!" are antithetical to God for the Apostle Paul writes "you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)" (Ephesians 2:1-5).
In your self will (2 Peter 2:9-10) you wrote that Christian doctrine "makes God into an evil tyrant" such as the Word of God saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); consequently, you daringly blaspheme Glory and God knows how to keep the daring self willed over for punishment (2 Peter 2:9-10).
In your self will (2 Peter 2:9-10), you defiantly claim to "debunk" the Word of God Who says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) which indicates salvation for there is no limitation on the choosing in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
All of your "debunk"s are from your additions to and deletions from scripture, so your "debunk"s only mean that you persist in doctrine of delusion of imposing human choice toward God into the Word of God.
There you go again, twisting scripture when you wrote "Choose you this day" which is a clear reference to
Joshua 24:14-15 which only presents choices of false gods while no choice of the One True God is presented (post in this thread).
You wrote "So, according to
@Kermos, I don't have "salvation". Thankfully, that's not what God told me. I still recall as a child when Jesus knocked on my door. I chose to open and he has been dining with me since that day.", but your false god that you chose lies to you, Francis Drake because you claim that you "chose" Jesus, yet Lord Jesus says "I chose you out of the world (John 15:19) and "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
The indwelling Holy Spirit is peace, Francis Drake. The Holy Spirit comes upon people, not people coming upon the Holy Spirit as you describe with your words of "Its an incredibly amazing sense of God's presence. That's what caused me to open my heart to him, his love" of which "open my heart to him" is entirely unscriptural for it is written "the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul" (Acts 16:14); moreover, "those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (Romans 8:8), so you being apart from God could not "choose" God in a way pleasing to God.
You wrote "Your 'Love' stinks like a drain." God has given me love for you, so you blaspheme Glory again (2 Peter 2:9-10). You do not know what love is because you as "a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14).
I'm not the one to change you. That is up to God alone, not you, not me, but God alone.
You wrote "I guess the reason there were two trees just goes straight over your head. Don't worry, some day you'll get it". No, I cite that God never used the word "choose" nor it's conjugates whether to eat or not in relation to the tree of life nor the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and this is according to scripture, but you persist in trying to add to the Word of God by inserting "choice" where it does not exist.
Again, hold up 1 Timothy 2:3-4 as some kind indicator of choice or free will where it does not exist. It appears that you think all men are saved by those words which shows that you do not understand what is written in 1 Timothy there.
You call the One True God "an evil monster", so the Word of God says "by your words you will be condemned" (Matthew 12:37). I am not talking about your "Calvin's god".
You wrote "Throughout this thread you have heaped curses and vitriol on anyone who disagrees with your doctrines", yet I've not cursed you once rather I've warned you of the truth revealed in Scripture, but in your self will (2 Peter 2:9-10) you invert love and hate.
You wrote "But, if as you say, my name is not written in the Lamb's Book of Life" - I NEVER WROTE THAT! You add to scripture, so it is no surprise that you would add to my writings which the Holy Spirit leads me to write to you. I CITE THE WORD OF GOD TO YOU.
You wrote "Any normal person would read these two passages and realise that God had left it up to Adam whether to obey or disobey", but you used the wrong words of "normal person" because only a "carnally minded person" would add "choose" or it's variants to Genesis 2:16-17 and Genesis 3:6. Notice "you shall not eat" does not indicated ablility to obey nor disobey; meanwhile , "took of its fruit and ate" and "and he ate" both are ACTIONS with no implicit nor explicit inclusion of choose nor it's variants.
By the way, in the Hebrew the word "for" in "for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die" also means "when"; therefore, it can be translated as "when in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die" which means that GOD KNEW THAT ADAM WOULD EAT FROM THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.
Lord Jesus is talking about salvation and sanctification again and again in John 15, and the Apostle Peter includes all believers in all time when Lord Jesus says "you" as recorded in Scripture (Acts 11:14-17, Acts 1:4-5), se then this results in the "you" in the Word of God, Lord Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) binding all believers in all time (post in this thread)
You deny the above in your claim to choose God against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) with Jesus giving the "choose" no execptions, so you deny being chosen of God for the Word of God says "I chose you" (John 15:16) in what could have been the very same breath. God saves only the chosen of God, and all glory for the saving of any is God's glory and God's glory alone.
May God save you from your vain worship embedded in your precepts of men (Matthew 15:9) which is your self glorifying claimed choice of God (John 15:16, Isaiah 42:8).
Your argument is truly infantile. Words like "choose" or "choice" do not have to be included in a sentence to have the same effect.
Even you claimed "Salvation" was throughout the whole of John 15, when it doesn't even appear once, so apart from being utterly hypocritical, your argument is truly pathetic.
But here's a "choice" passage of scripture.
â¦Ex32v25Moses saw that the people were out of control, for Aaron had let them run wild and become a laughingstock to their enemies. 26So Moses stood at the entrance of the camp and said, âWhoever is for the LORD, come to me.â And all the Levites gathered around him.
Moses gave his call to the whole camp, but only Levi responded. Everybody could have come if they so wished.
In normal life, that's called making a choice, whether the word is their or not.
If without their consent, some men are pre-programmed to get "saved", then their lives were never in the slightest danger of God's wrath!
Never being at risk, these men were "saved" from absolutely nothing. That makes the Calvinist concept of salvation is a completely empty charade.
No, it comes from the pit and has nothing to do with Christ!
Your false doctrine makes God into an evil tyrant.
Debunked"Choose you this day...â¦â¦â¦"
God always expects man to make choices. So, according to
@Kermos, I don't have "salvation". Thankfully, that's not what God told me.
I still recall as a child when Jesus knocked on my door. I chose to open and he has been dining with me since that day.
But just curious Kermos, do you really know what the peace of Jesus feels like?
Its an incredibly amazing sense of God's presence.
That's what caused me to open my heart to him, his love. That's got nothing to do with doctrines.
You should try it some timeI'm sorry
@Kermos, if what you portray is love, then you can stick it.....cos I don't need it or want it.
Your "Love" stinks like a drain.
I guess the reason there were two trees just goes straight over your head. Don't worry, some day you'll get it.
1Tim2v3This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
If this states what God wants, all men saved, and if God is responsible for all choices, then the whole human race must be saved and nobody going to hell in a handbasket! Yippee.
And if not, why not. Why do Calvinists throw out threats of damnation so readily, like you keep threatening me?
Maybe your Calvinist god didn't read this scripture? Or just maybe, there's another factor you've missed completely.That's a truly infantile analysis of what I said. You truly are blind to what I said. Maybe your Calvinism has so addled your brain that you can't follow simple logic
If a head teacher buys concert tickets for the whole school, but only half turn up to the event, the price he paid is still the same, the cost for the whole school.
The kids exercised free choice and didn't give a damn about the cost.
No, that was reserved for Calvin's godI have walked with the Lord now for nearly 60 years my friend, so your insults and constant threats say volumes about you, but mean very little to me.
My walk with Jesus is a relationship of love and security, not academic prowess. There is no fear in love.
So once again
@Kermos, I'm a liar and face the death penalty, being excluded from the Holy City because my name is not in the Book of Life.
Gee thanks, I'm terrified!
Throughout this thread you have heaped curses and vitriol on anyone who disagrees with your doctrines.
Do you seriously imagine such words will persuade me to follow you.
But, if as you say, my name is not written in the Lamb's Book of Life, then my future is already fixed and its not my choice.
Nothing you could ever say will possibly persuade me to repent. According to Calvinism I'm permanently predestined, pre-programmed by God to reject everything you say.
Ditto
God commanded Adam not to eat the Tree of Knowledge of Good or Evil (ie. The Tree of Death)
Gen2v16And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, âOf every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.â
But Adam and Eve make their own decision and eat from the wrong tree anyway.
Gen3v6So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.
Any normal person would read these two passages and realise that God had left it up to Adam whether to obey or disobey.
ie. Adam had freewill choice in the matter!
This is not adding to scripture, its simply reading it as stated.
Obviously Adam could, or should, have eaten from the Tree of Life which represents the Lord himself. But that's probably way above the Calvinist pay grade to think about that.
There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!