Yep. That is exactly what I posted in my op reply. Thank you for affirming that truth. The challenge is to do so upon conversion from death to life and to learn how to do so consistently and victoriously in all domains of life. Less of us, more of Christ. In writing about justification via the Law Paul wrote this to the Galatians,
Galatians 2:17-21 ESV
"But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose."
Are we to think Paul had, as we both have posted about, come to the end of himself? The book of was written after his letter to the ekklesia in Galatia so it appears Romans 7 would indicate some growth remained. Gideon confesses he was that text's poster child. Who among us has not wondered if would wrest the title of Chief" away from Paul? If Paul did not attain this selflessness then what hope have we? Yet are we to believe the struggles Paul faced early on did not provide the maturity, unity, faithfulness, and Christ-likeness he wrote about to the Ephesians? Romans 8 would seem to confirm such growth.
What would Paul (or James, John, or Peter) have said to a pastor who struggled 38 years with a sexual sin? Of course, we already know the answer to this question because Paul addressed it early on in his first letter to Corinth
1 Corinthians 6:17-20 ESV
But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."[/i]
And John spoke about chronic ongoing sin in some decidedly harsh and seemingly intolerant terms.
1 John 3:4-10 ESV
"Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother."
And many a legalist has bludgeoned a believer to death with John's words. I think the answer lies in something Peter wrote,
2 Peter 1:3-11 NAS
"...His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you."
I have found that part about remembering very important.
Thinking the crying out precedes the cleansing is the cart before the horse. We are much more likely to cry out to God when remembering the sanctification provided, not the other way around. Oddly enough, if we live a life characterized by repentance (and its accompanying sanctification) then we also reduce the need for crying out.
James 1:2-8
"Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways."
And that sort of reluctance to rejoice, that sort of need for knowledge, that sort of double-mindedness is something we all can testify about. It is, as I previously stated, the normal Christian life. It is intended to lead to... maturity, unity, and Christ-likeness.
That is not entirely correct. We are not bound by two options. And if this op is as far as Gideon has gotten (and I trust from the last statement in the o that it is not as far as he has progressed, then he has not found the truth he needed.
And I am not being nitpicky, unkind, or in any way unchristlike to note the errors of what you just posted.
Good for you. I am glad you can rejoice with those who rejoice and perhaps mourn with those who mourn. I choose to commend him for the accomplishments of God in his life and spur him on toward love and good deeds.
Such as mining the spiritual terrain within what is posted in this op.
If the latter will be received.
Psalm 141:5
"Let the righteous man strike me; let his rebuke be an act of loving devotion. It is oil for my head; let me not refuse it. For my prayer is ever against the deeds of the wicked."
Proverbs 27:6
"Faithful are the wounds of a friend..."
Proverbs 28:23
"He who rebukes a man will later find more favor than one who flatters with his tongue."
Where does 2 Timothy 3:16-17 fit within those two options, Charlie? I can be criticized for my response to this op to heart's desire but until something I actually posted is proven incorrect those in dissent are undermining their own dissent.
I might even venture to say the idea we have only two options - pointing fingers at what should have happened or praising God for what the sinner found - is part of the problem thatgot Gideon into the 38 years of servitude he suffered. If all he was left with was finger-pointing or praise then that left a wide desert for him to walk alone. I suspect he alludes to this when he mentions an accountability partner. No, Charlie those are is not our only options, and thinking there are only two options is a problem to be solved. Using that error to insinuate derision of others makes things worse.