Is walking in the "free indeed" Jesus promised actually possible.... in THIS life?

[Josheb]

You start your post off that way, can you see how that would be off putting? It's going to shadow any truth you may post later on.

I think that is a low opinion of others. Not one I share.

Most often when ppl pray, they pray out of fear, I think.

You "think"? So this critique is based on your personal anecdotal view of what you think others do and not in what can be evidenced?

Yes, some Christians do pray most often out of fear. That is not a practice nor a disposition that should be affirmed. What should be encouraged is daily prayer of diversity (supplication, intercession, etc.). Remember the op is a pastor and ministry leader.

I'm only writing this because you asked how you were nitpicking.

That's not exactly what happened. I was accused of nitpicking without evidence to that effect. Others were asked to evidence their views of derision.

If the op was read with understanding and my op-reply was read with understanding then any digression of purported nitpicking is unnecessary.

Just by the sentence above my thoughts were you never experienced the type of prayer he spoke of and you were bragging. Later I thought you had no idea...

And thus the ad hominems begin.

I just felt so bad for him...

I am glad you have an empathetic heart. Try extending some of that to me.

Then read posts 38, 41, and 47 to find out what this op is really about. Go to Gideon's profile page and look up the ops he's started and see how often this occurs; see how often an op is begun with the appearance of some notable lesson or wisdom only to be the springboerd for passimism and church-hating and apocalypse.

 

[Josheb]

Like what? Where is all this presumption originating from?

Read the posts. Examine posts 38, 41, and 47 in particular. It is stated victory is a lie. Go then and see his op history and see how often this practice occurs. It is not presumption.

I can and have evidenced everything I have posted. Unlike those who disent. I have repeatedly said if any one of you can prove something I posted incorrect then I will change it. I have received ad hominem, straw man, and non sequitur but not a single bit of evidence proving I am anything anyone claimed I am.

I have not been presumptuous. The op is on record stating victory is a lie. This is tied to his op. Notice he has repeatedly leveraged Romans 7 but completely ignored Romans 8.

 

[Nancy Hale]

Yes, I know what he means too.

I also know the effects universals have on the brain. I also understand the effect teaching universals to others has on them. When we use words like, "always,", never," "everything," and completely we bind ourselves. We bind others when we assign those words to them. A husband who says to his wife, "You always do that..." is wrong to say such things. The effect is adverse on both the husband, the wife, and their marriage. Universal statements are rarely correct.

Scripture tells us this matters. Scripture tells us "as a man thinketh so he is." Scripture tells us it is out of the abundance of our hearts that we speak (and post). So when I hear a teacher teach a universal that isn't true I am going to challenge that practice.

It is an easy thing to remedy.

All that needed to occur was a simple statement by the op saying anything to the effect of "I was speaking hyperbolically," or even "You're correct, Josh, I should have said it felt like all my options had been exhausted."

But that is not what happened.

No, I am apply very important spiritual principles and scripture-provided standards to what appears to be this person's personal experience.

If you've read through the posts then you've realized he had another agenda from the start.

Do please now read through and verify what I just said if it is doubted.

I have been published many times in many genres. I understand grammatical rules, when you should hold strictly to them and when you should not.
When someone tells you "be careful" do you give them a one hour lecture on how biblically unsound it is to say such a thing? Or, do you understand the intent behind the words, and give them a socially acceptable response?
If you are not lecturing them, you are a hypocrite.

 

[com7fy8]

I've seen a little bit of inappropriate content, and the people look sick and stressed and used . . . not beautiful. And I need to care about them and not use them just to look at them.

The really beautiful women I have seen are in church and the store and walking on the street. But God has me love them, not just use them to look at them and do inappropriate contentography in my imagination. Or else, I am missing out on how I can be loving.

And, because I have been able to give in to imagination inappropriate content, I have not only needed to stop it, but also get real correction of my character so I am loving, instead, the way God has us loving. And it works a lot better, to see women and love them and pray God's blessing to them.

It is just we choose to walk back into them from time to time.

I might go back, somehow, but also I can have times when the feelings are so convincing . . . but God is the One with the ability to keep me loving, trusting Him.

But if I can choose evil, my character is not like Jesus, I would say. I need real deep correction so I stay God's way.

But it is a lot more fun and challenging and interesting and encouraging to find out how to love each woman, and not just use anyone.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I have been published many times in many genres. I understand grammatical rules, when you should hold strictly to them and when you should not.
When someone tells you "be careful" do you give them a one hour lecture on how biblically unsound it is to say such a thing? Or, do you understand the intent behind the words, and give them a socially acceptable response?
If you are not lecturing them, you are a hypocrite.

I'm losing a bit the theme of this thread (maybe it's just me) but seems anyway that you are an experienced writer.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I've seen a little bit of inappropriate content, and the people look sick and stressed and used . . . not beautiful. And I need to care about them and not use them just to look at them.

The really beautiful women I have seen are in church and the store and walking on the street. But God has me love them, not just use them to look at them and do inappropriate contentography in my imagination. Or else, I am missing out on how I can be loving.

And, because I have been able to give in to imagination inappropriate content, I have not only needed to stop it, but also get real correction of my character so I am loving, instead, the way God has us loving. And it works a lot better, to see women and love them and pray God's blessing to them. I might go back, somehow, but also I can have times when the feelings are so convincing . . . but God is the One with the ability to keep me loving, trusting Him.

But if I can choose evil, my character is not like Jesus, I would say. I need real deep correction so I stay God's way.

But it is a lot more fun and challenging and interesting and encouraging to find out how to love each woman, and not just use anyone.

Philippians 4.8 represents a beauty that endures, unlike with the transient images of glamour.

 

[Josheb]

I have been published many times in many genres. I understand grammatical rules, when you should hold strictly to them and when you should not. When someone tells you "be careful" do you give them a one hour lecture on how biblically unsound it is to say such a thing? Or, do you understand the intent behind the words, and give them a socially acceptable response? If you are not lecturing them, you are a hypocrite.

I'm not talking grammar. I am talking about the psychology and spirituality of words. You may argue grammar all you like but you'll be arguing a false equivalency.

Gideon did not try everything. This is evidenced by his eventually doing something that did effect change. He was speaking hyperbolically and should have indicated that when it was pointed out. He posted this way because he wanted to set up the reader for his beliefs victory is a lie, the church is corrupt, and we're all gonna suffer a wake up call any day now.

Well some of us do walk in real victory, we do love others, and we are about the Father's business in ways that change others' lives and the world.



No hypocrisy required.

 

[com7fy8]

Philippians 4.8 represents a beauty that endures, unlike with the transient images of glamour.

Amen > Philippians 4:8 >

"Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and it there is anything praiseworthy---meditate on these things." (Philippians 4:8)

Thank you

 

[Nancy Hale]

I'm not talking grammar. I am talking about the psychology and spirituality of words. You may argue grammar all you like but you'll be arguing a false equivalency.

Some people do "always" do the same thing. Psychology has a name for it when it becomes extreme. But, the mundane, works too. I tried everything to get the stupid wire clip back in place when changing my car headlight bulb today. Did I shove a banana in the socket? No, I did not. Most ppl wouldn't think I would.
How many times are those words used in the Bible? They have spiritual value.
You asked how you were nitpicking. I responded. You took it beyond that. You have repeatedly framed what exactly the op should have said, you call black white and give no plain response to anyone.
I'm going to say it just one more time, as simple as I can; your first paragraph of your original response lost any understanding of the rest of your idea's.
I'm done.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Some people do "always" do the same thing. Psychology has a name for it when it becomes extreme. But, the mundane, works too. I tried everything to get the stupid wire clip back in place when changing my car headlight bulb today. Did I shove a banana in the socket? No, I did not. Most ppl wouldn't think I would.
How many times are those words used in the Bible? They have spiritual value.
You asked how you were nitpicking. I responded. You took it beyond that. You have repeatedly framed what exactly the op should have said, you call black white and give no plain response to anyone.
I'm going to say it just one more time, as simple as I can; your first paragraph of your original response lost any understanding of the rest of your idea's.
I'm done.

A bit hard to follow the thread...

 

[dqhall]

I'm not talking grammar. I am talking about the psychology and spirituality of words. You may argue grammar all you like but you'll be arguing a false equivalency.

Gideon did not try everything. This is evidenced by his eventually doing something that did effect change. He was speaking hyperbolically and should have indicated that when it was pointed out. He posted this way because he wanted to set up the reader for his beliefs victory is a lie, the church is corrupt, and we're all gonna suffer a wake up call any day now.

Well some of us do walk in real victory, we do love others, and we are about the Father's business in ways that change others' lives and the world.



No hypocrisy required.

Gideons 300 seems to be grateful to be freed from lewd and lascivious desire. One does not have to be perfect in every way shape and form to be able to express gratitude for divine intervention.

A woman who had practiced occult religion gave her testimony. She testified God had forgiven her. God put something in her mind to block the path to that false religion.

Jesus came to call sinners. People who can not admit they ever sinned are lost in delusions of grandeur.

 

[charsan]

For some, it can be easy to overcome sin. The same sin/s. For others, like me, it can be quite a battle.

I truly believe in the Mercy of Jesus. How many times did He say we should forgive? How many times do you think Jesus forgives?

Nobody in this world is 100% perfect.

For some, like me, it has been a long journey of suffering of which, only now, do i truly witness the darkness being lifted from my eyes! God works in mysterious ways. Praise be to Jesus!

Faith in Jesus. Faith in His cross. Faith in His resurrection. Faith in His undying Mercy. These are what matters. We suffer, yes. We offer up our sufferings to Jesus. We put ALL our trust in Him. We lay EVERYTHING at His feet.

Yep, there are no easy answer

 

[Josheb]

Some people do "always" do the same thing. Psychology has a name for it when it becomes extreme. But, the mundane, works too. I tried everything to get the stupid wire clip back in place when changing my car headlight bulb today. Did I shove a banana in the socket? No, I did not. Most ppl wouldn't think I would.
How many times are those words used in the Bible? They have spiritual value.
You asked how you were nitpicking. I responded. You took it beyond that. You have repeatedly framed what exactly the op should have said, you call black white and give no plain response to anyone.
I'm going to say it just one more time, as simple as I can; your first paragraph of your original response lost any understanding of the rest of your idea's.
I'm done.

Do you hold pastors endeavoring to teach others what to believe to the same standard you do a woman colloquially describing replacing a light bulb?

I do not.

 

[Josheb]

Gideons 300 seems to be grateful to be freed from lewd and lascivious desire.

Seems that way, doesn't it. Did you read through the rest of his posts here?

Because it turns out this op isn't really about his victory over being a poster boy for Romans 7. This op turns out to be an argument we're all poster boys for Romans 7 and there is no Romans 8 to be had. He's said victory is a lie. He's argued the church is corrupt and unloving. Even that isn't his real purpose with this op. In the end this is about asserting an eschatology: we're all in for a rude awakening real soon; we're going to be "entering a valley of decision." Search his ops. He asserts this position often. That is the agenda in his ops.

One does not have to be perfect in every way shape and form to be able to express gratitude for divine intervention.

I completely agree and nothing I have posted should be construed to say otherwise.

A woman who had practiced occult religion gave her testimony. She testified God had forgiven her. God put something in her mind to block the path to that false religion.

Great. Praise God. I am overjoyed for her and give God the glory.

Jesus came to call sinners.

Yep.

People who can not admit they ever sinned are lost in delusions of grandeur.

Red herring. No one, especially not me, has argued any such thing. I am on record explicitly stating we are corrupt and corruptible (but redeemed and regenerate) people living in a corrupted world among corrupt (not redeemed) people.

Gideon may llude to being grateful, but how grateful is it if one later denies the victory? How complete is a person who admits to Romans 7 but denies Romans 8?

 

[topher694]

All you or anyone else has to do is show where something I actually posted is incorrect. Guys, I've received a dozen posts of dissent and asked every single one of you to prove your case with something I actually posted only to receive more of the same.

Within your comments on this thread alone I have noted:

At least 5 logical fallacies
At least a dozen clear violations of scripture
3 direct contradictions of your own words
attributing things to others that they didn't say more times that I can count
then, complaining about others attributing things to you that you didn't say
and to top it all off, just an overall tone of rudeness, pride and disrespect

Now, I could take the time to go gather all the relevant quotes and scriptures and organize and type it all out. But why would I waste my time doing that? You won't listen. You'll just nitpick further and do more of all of the things above. It will lead to 30, 60, 100 more back and forth posts that will waste even more time and give you more of a platform to insult others under the guise of "being right". We've been down that road before. It doesn't matter how many people tell you, or how many times your told that your behavior is not acceptable, that doesn't matter. It appears the only person you care to actually listen to is yourself.


The only reason I bothered to write this is for the benefit of others reading. The things I listed above are here, in this thread, and probably many more (and more to come). Now undoubtedly, 'ol josheb here will give a long impassioned response ridiculing me and claiming that I "once again" could not give any evidence. Don't buy it. In fact that argument itself is another logical fallacy. Examine the fruit, trust your discernment and pray for the guy. He needs it.

 

[Josheb]

I could take the time to go gather all the relevant quotes and scriptures and organize and type it all out. But why would I waste my time doing that?

Because I asked.

You won't listen.

You don't know that. You've bailed on your responsibility to me before you've started.

You'll just nitpick further and do more of all of the things above.

I sound argument has nothing to nitpick.

The only reason I bothered to write this is for the benefit of others reading.

Others do not benefit when you make accusation but provide no evidence.


If you find something wrong in my op-reply then show me. If what I have posted is correct then affirm it and discuss it with me op-relevantly.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Josheb]

Like what? Where is all this presumption originating from?

The reading of many ops that on one hand appear to discuss personal spiritual growth but eventually turn into criticisms of the body of Christ as a whole and the asserts of apocalypse. Here's a sample.

The reluctant prophet finally steps out.....l

The Wise Virgins Are About to Awake and DO Something. Any Guesses What That Might Be?

The third act is about to begin. You don't want to miss it.

If there is no battle going on inside you.....

The faith vs. works debate is missing the point. We have a bigger problem.....

What Will It Take To Finally Admit Something Is Wrong With Our Understanding of the Gospel?

Boy, have we got it wrong.... (What One Things You Would Do To Improve Our Christian Experience

Gideon has sinned. And the truth still stands regardless.

Our salvation is indeed conditional....

A Willful Sinner versus a Man Trapped in Romans 7- BIG difference!

Is Romans 7 inescapable?

 

[Josheb]

So guys, I get you don't like my style.I'll work on that. Now howabout we deal with the substance of this op.

Do any of you read this op discussing his testimony?

I raised some concerns about inappropriate contentography addiction I know to be consequent to that addiction, like the impact it has on a spouse, the lost integrity especially occurring when pastors and ministry leaders use. Does anyone see anything in this op addressing these issues? Do any of you think such an addiction is overcome without addressing these matters?

This op appeals to Romans 7. Gideon has written other ops about Romans 7. I completely agree Romans 7 is inherent to each and everyone of us, but I wonder why Romans 8 is not broached and when Romans 8 is broached then it is denied. Here in this op that denial is evidenced in the report victory is a lie. Does anyone here think it good to focus on Romans 7 and neglect or ignore Romans 8?

Most importantly, who here thinks it is good practice to open a discussion with something seemingly about spiritual growth or some principle of wisdom only to find out the discussion is apocalyptic or eschatological in nature? Earlier a poster was explaining hyperbole and used an analogy about replacing a light bulb and in frustration declaring, "I've tried everything," but they hadn't tried sticking a banana peel into the socket. Who among you thinks that frustrated person should then turn to us all and ask, "Will you sign my petition to have the car manufacturer sued?" or "Will you agree with me all owners of this model are just as frustrated as me?"

The op opens up stating, "This is my testimony as to not only the possibility of each of us walking as an overcomer, victorious over the world the flesh and the devil, but its sureness!" but in post 47 this is stated: "The path of thinking we will grow into victory. It is a lie. It is the same path that the israelites took in the wilderness, endless loops, always proceeding forward, never getting closer to the land of promise." The op opens with a claim victory is sure but then states victory is a lie. It is worth noting the Israelites did in fact eventually reach the Promised land, including two of the individuals from the original group that left Egypt. How am I wrong to point out this inconsistency?

Is the op discussing his testimony?
Do you read the testimony of bondage to inappropriate content being discussed?
Should we neglect Romans 8 when discussing Romans 7 if the topic is victory?
What do you think of the practice of not fully disclosing one's purpose from the beginning?
What do you think of the practice of claiming victory is both sure and a lie.
How am I wrong to note these things (when this has become common practice)?​

 

[nolidad]

Ifcwhat you say were true, then abiding in Him is simply a pipe dream, because we are promised that if we abide in Him, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Think for a minute. If walking in victory is impossible then our shields of faith actually cannot quench allcthe fiery arrows of the enemy, amen?

Has God not promised to not allow us to be tempted more than we can bear? Has He not assured us thst in every temptation He will make a way of escape, so that we moght be able to bear it without giving in?

How can we count it all joy when we fall into diverse temptations, if we know we will eventually fall?

Jesus has set us free! We are free indeed. God knew you would sin and if you use 1 John 1:9 you still abide in him! Abiding in HIm is because of Jesus- not your personal experiential holiness. Is that a license to sin? Of course not!

We need to hate sin, but not make it out to be a big boogey man! OUr righteousness is Jesus and not our own level of experiential holiness! God already sees us as perfected, now He is making us into what He sees us as!

In my bible classes for adults, I use a stick man in a box. Th ebox represents a block of marble and the stick man is the stature the sculptor sees in his mind. All the Sculptor sees is the finished statue and what he does is remove the pieces of marble that so not belong!

God is forever done being angry with us because we still sin! He poured ALL His wrath on Jesus at the cross, so now He is free to just love us and train us into maturity.

 

[nolidad]

Why did the early church flourish as it did? Because men exclaimed "Behold how they love one another!". When was the laxt time you heard a lost person say that about the church? Yeah, me either.

Actually , my church does a pretty good job of it!

Victory is being offered us. Do we want it or will we be like the Laodecians saying "We have need of nothing."?

You have forgotten the Word of God:

Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

We may lose battles- but the war is already won!

There are millions in the world wanting to be free from their bad natures. And what have we offered them? Freedom from guilt perhaps. (but sadly, most Christians still feel guilty) But as to the ability to walk as an overcomer? We offer nothing, for we ourselves are still bound. And God weeps.

Well I offer folks what Jesus gained for us! there is no more guilty before God- jesus was declared guilty on my behalf! Even when I fail- I get to glorify God by acknowledging that whsat I did was sin! He forgives me experientially and promises to cleanse me! I know I have a responsibility in this and do what I can, But there is no more guilt!

Just remember what God told us:

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?