IS THE WILL OF HUMANS CONTROLLED BY GOD?

[BNR32FAN]

@Francis Drake and @CharismaticLady and @BNR32FAN

Since each of you deny that the "you" in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) applies to you

AND you deny the "you" in "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) applies to you

THEN the "you" in "You are My friends" (John 15:14) which Lord Jesus spoke just prior to John 15:16-19 cannot not apply to you

THEREFORE, by your own admission none of you are friends of Jesus.

Thats a pretty harsh thing to say to a fellow Christian. I’m going to be blunt now you seem like a very mean hearted person. Instead of resorting to attacks and hateful comments why not just keep it civil and polite in your discussion? I don’t think I’ve said anything impolite to you and if I have inadvertently offended you in any of my posts I sincerely apologize. It was surely not my intention.

 

[Inkfingers]

Fish have no say in whether they get caught in the fisherman's net. They swim in the Tehom as their nature drives them, and whether they are drawn up is ENTIRELY down to the Fisherman.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Fish have no say in whether they get caught in the fisherman's net. They swim in the Tehom as their nature drives them, and whether they are drawn up is ENTIRELY down to the Fisherman.

then if a fish isn’t drawn up by the fisherman who’s fault is that? The fish’s fault or the fisherman’s?

 

[timothyu]

then if a fish isn’t drawn up by the fisherman who’s fault is that? The fish’s fault or the fisherman’s?

Sounds like the fish is innocent but will be thrown in hell anyway to remove the spotlight from the fisherman. This is the way the world runs, the way of man, not of God.

 

[Inkfingers]

then if a fish isn’t drawn up by the fisherman who’s fault is that? The fish’s fault or the fisherman’s?

All fish are faulty.

 

[Francis Drake]

@Francis Drake and @CharismaticLady and @BNR32FAN
THEN the "you" in "You are My friends" (John 15:14) which Lord Jesus spoke just prior to John 15:16-19 cannot not apply to you

THEREFORE, by your own admission none of you are friends of Jesus.

You have to understand @Kermos, that I know my God and He knows me, thus your tantrums and false accusations against me are like water off a duck's back.
I know I am precious in his sight, and such confidence is written in my heart, not my intellect.

But do you seriously consider yourself qualified to arbitrate who Jesus counts as friends?
Do you seriously imagine friendship with Jesus is about doctrines, or just perhaps, maybe, it could be more about a man's heart?

The very starting place of my spiritual walk was in discerning the tangible presence of God in my bedroom, alone, as a child.
It was that tangible love that drew me, not theology.
It was tangible love and abiding peace that has kept me close to him for 60 years, not theology.

I am truly grateful that my walk started from a spiritual relationship of knowing God, rather than intellectually knowing about God.

Thus the structural foundation of my walk with God is knowing his love first, then hearing his voice, and long after that came scripture.

Thus I am truly glad I don't have your hefty theological baggage to weigh me down. It must be such a burden.
But there is still time.

Jesus called us to humble ourselves and become as a little child, not a theologian.-

Matt18v2And having summoned a child, He set it in their midst, 3and said, “Truly I say to you, if you are not converted and become as the little children, you shall never enter into the kingdom of the heavens.
The children Jesus was talking about, they were never theologians!

4Therefore whoever will humble himself as this little child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens.
Again, we see the call to humble yourself, making it our job, not God's!

Then,-
5And whoever shall receive one such little child in My name, receives Me.
@Kermos, you have not received me as a child of God, you have aggressively rejected me and told me that I have no place in God.

Think carefully, because that says more about you than me!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sounds like the fish is innocent but will be thrown in hell anyway to remove the spotlight from the fisherman. This is the way the world runs, the way of man, not of God.

No the problem is that, according to some people, the fisherman’s expectations are impossible for the fish to meet and yet the fish is severely punished for not being able to meet said impossible expectations, thus making the punishment for the fish unjust.

 

[BNR32FAN]

All fish are faulty.

Amen to that, but is it just to severely punish the fish for failing to meet impossible expectations? Expectations that the fish is, according to Calvin’s theology, completely incapable of meeting and completely incapable of influencing the fisherman’s decision to help the fish?

 

[timothyu]

No the problem is that, according to some people

Exactly... according to some people , not God. As Jesus told the gang, truth comes from God not man. Man is already tainted with the self serving will of previous man.

 

[witness12]

Please forgive me for speaking in this thread, every one.

at the time of my posts, I was demon possessed and God has delivered me. Please pay no attention to my comments. They were very real things I saw but they were completely false. They were things I saw by an unholy spirit. They are not true

 

[Kermos]

You are being combative and rude.

You are being combative and rude and arrogant against the Word of God because you claim to choose Jesus and you practice denial of the Christian Truth of the exclusive choice by God intrinsic quality of Lord Jesus Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) applies to all believers in all time as the Word of God Himself expresses!

 

[Kermos]

The Word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart (Hebrews 4:12).

A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised (1 Corinthians 2:14).

The Word of God is crucial. I cite the Word of God, but you take offense to the Word of God.

A relevant conclusion founded on the Word of God yet leveraging your assertions is an act of charity (love). You think it is hateful (Romans 8:8). It is loving to proclaim the Truth (John 14:6), the Word of God (John 1:14).

A person must believe in the One True God, and God is the very source of belief/faith (John 6:29), and God declares Who God is in the Word of God.

God declares God's intrinsic quality of choosing people while at the same time declaring the creature's inability to choose God.

Thus, when the creature shakes it's fist back at God by questioning God with "Why did you make me like this" (Romans 9:18-23), or by the creature's denial of God's Word (John 8:43).

When the creature tries to steal the exclusive attribute of choice by God which glory of God is reserved to God by God, then the creature denies God (see Exodus 20).

Lord Jesus declares something very crucial, He says "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), so even His words recorded in Matthew 18:2-4 requires the Grand Creator's presence in the creature.

Critically, the words of Jesus that the Apostle Matthew recorded in Matthew 18:2-4 indicate the importance of being born again (see John 3:3-8), so the Power of God must be present for the creature to be humble.

Lord Jesus tells us that we are to receive the Word of God as children. We are not to intellectualize which includes imposing upon the Word of God, so when the creature declares that the Creator's words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) are invalid to the creature then that same creature declares that the creature chose the Creator - then by extension - that means that the creature did not choose the Creator for the Creator declares such an action of choice by the creature as invalid.

A friend of Jesus HONORS the Word of God for the Word of God is Jesus!

@Kermos

2 Timothy 2:
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.

Thats a pretty harsh thing to say to a fellow Christian. I’m going to be blunt now you seem like a very mean hearted person. Instead of resorting to attacks and hateful comments why not just keep it civil and polite in your discussion? I don’t think I’ve said anything impolite to you and if I have inadvertently offended you in any of my posts I sincerely apologize. It was surely not my intention.

You have to understand @Kermos, that I know my God and He knows me, thus your tantrums and false accusations against me are like water off a duck's back.
I know I am precious in his sight, and such confidence is written in my heart, not my intellect.

But do you seriously consider yourself qualified to arbitrate who Jesus counts as friends?
Do you seriously imagine friendship with Jesus is about doctrines, or just perhaps, maybe, it could be more about a man's heart?

The very starting place of my spiritual walk was in discerning the tangible presence of God in my bedroom, alone, as a child.
It was that tangible love that drew me, not theology.
It was tangible love and abiding peace that has kept me close to him for 60 years, not theology.

I am truly grateful that my walk started from a spiritual relationship of knowing God, rather than intellectually knowing about God.

Thus the structural foundation of my walk with God is knowing his love first, then hearing his voice, and long after that came scripture.

Thus I am truly glad I don't have your hefty theological baggage to weigh me down. It must be such a burden.
But there is still time.

Jesus called us to humble ourselves and become as a little child, not a theologian.-

Matt18v2And having summoned a child, He set it in their midst, 3and said, “Truly I say to you, if you are not converted and become as the little children, you shall never enter into the kingdom of the heavens.
The children Jesus was talking about, they were never theologians!

4Therefore whoever will humble himself as this little child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens.
Again, we see the call to humble yourself, making it our job, not God's!

Then,-
5And whoever shall receive one such little child in My name, receives Me.
@Kermos, you have not received me as a child of God, you have aggressively rejected me and told me that I have no place in God.

Think carefully, because that says more about you than me!

 

[timothyu]

God offers us the Kingdom. We chose whether to remain worldly by nature or take His offer therefore now living in it's ways, no longer supportive of mankind's self serving world..

 

[CharismaticLady]

now living in it's ways

How?

The answer is the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

 

[timothyu]

How?

How? Those who chose to remain self centered, full of self interest and self justification, you know, the traditional nature of man, will find no place in the Kingdom. The Kingdom was called upside down to the world of man for a reason. God commanded us to put others before our own self interest. There is no way around that as that is the way of the Kingdom and of God. The God people claim they emulate or wish to, but really don't.

 

[CharismaticLady]

How? Those who chose to remain self centered, full of self interest and self justification, you know, the traditional nature of man, will find no place in the Kingdom. The Kingdom was called upside down to the world of man for a reason. God commanded us to put others before our own self interest. There is no way around that as that is the way of the Kingdom and of God. The God people claim they emulate or wish to, but really don't.

But couldn't they do that under the Old Covenant? So again, how? What is the major difference.

Hint: It is the difference between Romans 7 (Old) and Romans 8 (New)

 

[timothyu]

Hint: It is the difference between Romans 7 (Old) and Romans 8 (New)

Hint: It's Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hint: It's Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom.

Close. What did Jesus give us?

 

[timothyu]

Close. What did Jesus give us?

The Kingdom and a commandment to put God's will before our own, thus loving all as self.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The Kingdom and a commandment to put God's will before our own, thus loving all as self.

But how do we put God's will before our own, thus loving all as self?