Can you refute this argument for the permissibility of public nudity?

[blackhole]

The argument goes:

During the exodus, 600,000 'men on foot' left Egypt and spent years wandering through a desert. There are 20 or more commands related to bathing; bathing wasn't an option. Given the multitude and insufficient water sources (cf. Num 20:11), bathing could not have been private. Bathing underwear had not yet been invented. Therefore, it follows that public nudity was not sinful.

Responses?

 

[SkyWriting]

The argument goes:
During the exodus, 600,000 'men on foot' left Egypt and spent years wandering through a desert. There are 20 or more commands related to bathing; bathing wasn't an option. Given the multitude and insufficient water sources (cf. Num 20:11), bathing could not have been private. Bathing underwear had not yet been invented. Therefore, it follows that public nudity was not sinful.Responses?

Sin can only be determined for oneself, and not other people.

 

[Lady Donna Marie]

They bathed with the same sex.

 

[blackhole]

They bathed with the same sex.

1) That's still public nudity.
2) Can you substantiate your claim?

 

[A_Thinker]

The argument goes:

During the exodus, 600,000 'men on foot' left Egypt and spent years wandering through a desert. There are 20 or more commands related to bathing; bathing wasn't an option. Given the multitude and insufficient water sources (cf. Num 20:11), bathing could not have been private. Bathing underwear had not yet been invented. Therefore, it follows that public nudity was not sinful.

Responses?

There are plenty of commandments regarding uncovering oneself. I'm sure that the Israelites figured out some way to obey God's command ...

Leviticus 18

6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD. 7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. 10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son’s daughter or of your daughter’s daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness. 11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, brought up in your father’s family, since she is your sister. 12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. 15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. 17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are relatives; it is depravity. 18 And you shall not take a woman as a rival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is still alive.

 

[timothyu]

The earliest Olympics were nude. It is a matter of society. Some people feared the world cam to an end with mini-skirts while others paid little heed. It's a matter of perception and the more taboo something is the easier ones instincts are turned on. Tv and movies are full of nudity or suggestion but there are no orgies in the theatre. Women parade in public in their camel toe tights yet complain if anyone looks. But looking is not attacking and there isn't rioting in the streets.

The bottom line is that when Adam and Eve were unaware of their nudity it was no more a big deal than the household pet running nude around the kids. But once man became self aware it was a different story.

So... unless someone nude in public is blissfully unaware be it personally or as a matter of societal unawareness, then the permissibility is not there.

 

[JackRT]

The argument goes:

During the exodus, 600,000 'men on foot' left Egypt and spent years wandering through a desert. There are 20 or more commands related to bathing; bathing wasn't an option. Given the multitude and insufficient water sources (cf. Num 20:11), bathing could not have been private. Bathing underwear had not yet been invented. Therefore, it follows that public nudity was not sinful.

Responses?

The logistics problems in the Exodus narrative goes far beyond any issue of public nudity. Three million people wandering around the Sinai desert for 40 years would require support that even modern technology would be hard pressed to provide. How about just drinking water for three million people? A pipeline maybe?

 

[Lady Donna Marie]

[QUOTE="blackhole,

Exodus 2:5
The daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the Nile, with her maidens walking alongside the Nile; and she saw the basket among the reeds and sent her maid, and she brought it to her.

1 Kings 22:38
And the war-carriage was washed by the pool of Samaria, which was the bathing-place of the loose women, and the dogs were drinking his blood there, as the Lord had said.

Exo 29:4
'And Aaron and his sons thou dost bring near unto the opening of the tent of meeting, and hast bathed them with water;

 

[HARK!]

There were about a million people wandering from one watering hole to the next, in the DESERT!

What would make you think that when they got done drinking, and filling up their canteens; say two million gallons later; that there would be any water left to dive into? With such a precious, life sustaining, resource, I suspect that a sponge bath in one's tent would be a lavish luxury.

 

[timothyu]

They could always blame the livestock they slept near for the smell.

 

[blackhole]

There are plenty of commandments regarding uncovering oneself. I'm sure that the Israelites figured out some way to obey God's command ...

Leviticus 18

6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD. 7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. 10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son’s daughter or of your daughter’s daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness. 11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, brought up in your father’s family, since she is your sister. 12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. 15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. 17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are relatives; it is depravity. 18 And you shall not take a woman as a rival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is still alive.

That's a list of who you're not allowed to have sex with.

 

[JackRT]

There are plenty of commandments regarding uncovering oneself. I'm sure that the Israelites figured out some way to obey God's command ...

Leviticus 18

6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD. 7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. 10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son’s daughter or of your daughter’s daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness. 11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, brought up in your father’s family, since she is your sister. 12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. 15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. 17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are relatives; it is depravity. 18 And you shall not take a woman as a rival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is still alive.

The Hebrew language reflects the societal norms of the time. They were extremely prudish and the language even lacked terms for body parts and functions. They resorted to euphemisms and "uncover the nakedness of ...." is one of them. It refers to "having sex with ....".

 

[blackhole]

The earliest Olympics were nude. It is a matter of society. Some people feared the world cam to an end with mini-skirts while others paid little heed. It's a matter of perception and the more taboo something is the easier ones instincts are turned on. Tv and movies are full of nudity or suggestion but there are no orgies in the theatre. Women parade in public in their camel toe tights yet complain if anyone looks. But looking is not attacking and there isn't rioting in the streets.

The bottom line is that when Adam and Eve were unaware of their nudity it was no more a big deal than the household pet running nude around the kids. But once man became self aware it was a different story.

So... unless someone nude in public is blissfully unaware be it personally or as a matter of societal unawareness, then the permissibility is not there.

How would society's awareness determine permissibility? Rather, society as a whole would then be in sin.

 

[timothyu]

Rather, society as a whole would then be in sin.

Would it be a sin if like Adam and Eve some were unaware of the sexual nature of the nudity? That is was a normal behaviour? Were all those tribal people in National Geographic 60 years ago sinners or just blissfully ignorant of insecure people's idea of sin? What if when God asked Adam and Eve who told you you were naked.. they said Christian missionaries.

 

[HARK!]

Sin can only be determined for oneself, and not other people.

If sin could only be determined by me; I might be doing what was right in my own eyes.

Sin most certainly can be determined by others. That's why, back in the good ole days, we had stonings.

 

[blackhole]

[QUOTE="blackhole,

Exodus 2:5
The daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the Nile, with her maidens walking alongside the Nile; and she saw the basket among the reeds and sent her maid, and she brought it to her.

They didn't leave Egypt until chapter 12.

 

[blackhole]

The logistics problems in the Exodus narrative goes far beyond any issue of public nudity. Three million people wandering around the Sinai desert for 40 years would require support that even modern technology would be hard pressed to provide. How about just drinking water for three million people? A pipeline maybe?

To be clear, you're suggesting that they didn't bathe for most or even all of this time. Correct?

 

[timothyu]

Sin most certainly can be determined by others. That's why, back in the good ole days, we had stonings.

The 60's?

 

[HARK!]

The 60's?

LOL!

 

[HARK!]

To be clear, you're suggesting that they didn't bathe for most or even all of this time. Correct?

That will stand as my supposition; until I'm provided with a cogent rebuttal.