The Truth About Abortion

[SPF]

Cool. If you feel that way, I encourage you to make choices for yourself based off of these personal principles.

Biblically based principles apply to all people claiming to be followers of Christ.

For example:

1. All humans are created in God’s Image and possess inherent moral worth and value.

2. a new human being comes into existence at fertilization.

The conclusion that the 98.5% of abortions are immoral ought to be obvious for people who claim to derive their belief system from Scripture.

It’s only when we allow secular culture and cultural politics to drive our beliefs that we end up with atrocities such as abortion in the world.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Biblically based principles apply to all people claiming to be followers of Christ.

For example:

1. All humans are created in God’s Image and possess inherent moral worth and value.

2. a new human being comes into existence at fertilization.

The conclusion that the 98.5% of abortions are immoral ought to be obvious for people who claim to derive their belief system from Scripture.

It’s only when we allow secular culture and cultural politics to drive our beliefs that we end up with atrocities such as abortion in the world.

Then I also encourage you to make your personal choices based off of those principles.

 

[SPF]

Then I also encourage you to make your personal choices based off of those principles.

And I encourage you to do the same.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

And I encourage you to do the same.

I’m very in tune with my core beliefs and principles, thank you.

 

[SPF]

I’m very in tune with my core beliefs and principles, thank you.

Doesn't make them right.

Do you agree that God made all humans in His Image and possess inherent moral worth and value?

Do you agree that the 98.5% of abortions that are performed for convenience sake are wrong?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Doesn't make them right.

Ok.

Do you agree that God made all humans in His Image and possess inherent moral worth and value?

In general, sure.

Do you agree that the 98.5% of abortions that are performed for convenience sake are wrong?

No. I think that statistic is made up for the purpose of this discussion. I don’t think there is such a thing as “abortion for convenience.” I don’t believe I have the authority to judge others spiritually or morally because I am a Christian and, therefore, I believe that only God has that privilege and I have faith in God’s plan and ability to be God without me taking his duties.

 

[RaymondG]

Do you agree that God made all humans in His Image and possess inherent moral worth and value?

This is not true..... Mankind is made in the image of God.......Human beings are from the dust and return to the dust.....leaving the image unaffected. Therefore we fear only the one who can destroy the soul..........

I believe it possible that I was aborted maybe times before a body, and a woman willing to carry it to term, was found for me....and a connection was made the moment I drew breath and realized that, I AM.....

 

[SPF]

This is not true..... Mankind is made in the image of God.......Human beings are from the dust and return to the dust.....leaving the image unaffected. Therefore we fear only the one who can destroy the soul..........

I believe it possible that I was aborted maybe times before a body, and a woman willing to carry it to term, was found for me....and a connection was made the moment I drew breath and realized that, I AM.....

Right, but you also literally believe you aren't ever going to die, so there's that. God created us as both physical and spiritual beings. You did not exist until your conception. And when Christ returns and redeems and restores His creation, you will exist here, on a physical earth, with your perfected physical body.

 

[SPF]

No. I think that statistic is made up for the purpose of this discussion

It's not made up, it's a statistical fact that 98.5% of abortions performed in the United States are for non-medical emergencies. These abortions are considered "convenience" because when health is not a factor, all other reasons are ultimately about the convenience (or inconvenience) of having a child.

I don’t believe I have the authority to judge others spiritually or morally because I am a Christian and, therefore, I believe that only God has that privilege and I have faith in God’s plan and ability to be God without me taking his duties.

Well the problem with this position is that it's not Biblical. Jesus specifically provided with us an outline for accountability and judging the actions of people who claim Christ. Paul, himself, judged a person in the Corinthian church.

We don't judge people, we judge the actions of people. As a Christian, I specifically am called to judge the actions of other Christians who claim Christ as Lord. I would hope you do the same, for the sake of the Gospel. I don't judge the actions of non-believers because sinners are doing what they're supposed to do... sin!

But, morality, right and wrong are objective because they come from the immutable character of a perfect God. Therefore, we can still stand up for Truth and proclaim that the intentional and purposeful killing of the unborn for no medical reason is an immoral action.

 

[RaymondG]

Right, but you also literally believe you aren't ever going to die, so there's that.

Yet I also believe that this is not true for you...so there is that as well.

God created us as both physical and spiritual beings. You did not exist until your conception. And when Christ returns and redeems and restores His creation, you will exist here, on a physical earth, with your perfected physical body.

WE are created Spiritual first.....and are known before we are conceived.

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

I exist before the body and after.. And even though a few mothers cast my bodies aside and thought of themselves before my existence....yet, still, here I stand...and I forgive them.

Christ has returned.....we must become like Him before Seeing Him as He is. Hating a neighbor because of differing thoughts on abortion, is not a good start on becoming Like Him.....

 

[Tropical Wilds]

It's not made up, it's a statistical fact that 98.5% of abortions performed in the United States are for non-medical emergencies. These abortions are considered "convenience" because when health is not a factor, all other reasons are ultimately about the convenience (or inconvenience) of having a child.

Ok.

Well the problem with this position is that it's not Biblical. Jesus specifically provided with us an outline for accountability and judging the actions of people who claim Christ. Paul, himself, judged a person in the Corinthian church.

We don't judge people, we judge the actions of people. As a Christian, I specifically am called to judge the actions of other Christians who claim Christ as Lord. I would hope you do the same, for the sake of the Gospel. I don't judge the actions of non-believers because sinners are doing what they're supposed to do... sin!

But, morality, right and wrong are objective because they come from the immutable character of a perfect God. Therefore, we can still stand up for Truth and proclaim that the intentional and purposeful killing of the unborn for no medical reason is an immoral action.

Ok.

 

[SPF]

WE are created Spiritual first.....and are known before we are conceived.

No, we aren't. The lone passage that you quote from Jeremiah is actually showing us just how awesome God is in His eternal, omniscient capacity in that even before we actually existed, He "knew" us in the sense that He already knew everything we would ever think, say, and do.

Christ has returned.....we must become like Him before Seeing Him as He is. Hating a neighbor because of differing thoughts on abortion, is not a good start on becoming Like Him.....

Christ hasn't returned in the Revelation sense in that He has not physically returned, had heaven come down to reside on a new earth, and provided us with perfected bodies. That has yet to come. But when that does happen, you will physically exist here, on earth, into eternity.

And I certainly agree that hating a neighbor because of a different opinion on abortion is not a good starting point on our journey of sanctification.

 

[Brightmoon]

When you mean “forced” are you speaking of rape or assault?

I’m talking about simply not wanting to undergo the health issues or problems of a pregnancy and not wanting to be pregnant because of that or not being able to afford a child

 

[SPF]

I’m talking about simply not wanting to undergo the health issues or problems of a pregnancy and not wanting to be pregnant because of that or not being able to afford a child

And you think those are perfectly acceptable reasons to intentionally kill an unborn child that possesses the same inherent moral worth and value as you and is equally created in the Image of God as you?

 

[RaymondG]

And you think those are perfectly acceptable reasons to intentionally kill an unborn child that possesses the same inherent moral worth and value as you and is equally created in the Image of God as you?

We do not and cannot kill images of God.....It is not possible. What they are doing is terminating pregnancies.

You try to liken them to killing old men......But they deserve a word of their own, and topic of there own : Abortion.

It does them an injustice to try and say they are the same as those killed in gang wars. They had no chance to live, no chance to breathe and no chance to experience existence.

Why is it hard to just use abortion for these situation. I wouldnt saying one shot in gang wars was aborted....for it would confuse the subject.......So why say an unborn child was murdered?

 

[Brightmoon]

And you think those are perfectly acceptable reasons to intentionally kill an unborn child that possesses the same inherent moral worth and value as you and is equally created in the Image of God as you?

ive got a biology degree. A fetus is basically a temporary parasite . Because fetal development is a just like a temporary parasite infection ,this causes problems and the only one who can determine whether or not the pregnancy should continue is the woman involved . Your feelings don’t count and they shouldn’t count.

 

[RaymondG]

ive got a biology degree.

Your opinions should be respected by all, even if you never finished Highschool. And if people arent willing to respect it, they dont deserve to hear it. Therefore comments like these are unnecessary.....

 

[Brightmoon]

I mentioned that because I stated a biological reality fact that some science illiterates refuse to accept . Just like other biological realities that some religious people refuse to accept . Sometimes facts aren’t what you want to hear . Nature is how God made it and you might not like that.

 

[SPF]

ive got a biology degree. A fetus is basically a temporary parasite . Because fetal development is a just like a temporary parasite infection ,this causes problems and the only one who can determine whether or not the pregnancy should continue is the woman involved . Your feelings don’t count and they shouldn’t count.

Yes, you like to continually mention your undergrad level education in biology. Congratulations. Just makes it all the more shameful that you refer to the unborn as parasites. Also makes it all the more shameful how ignorant on this subject you actually are.

The biological reality is that a new human being comes into existence at fertilization and spends 25 years developing. Yet at no point during our development are we not a human being.

The fact that you have no problem disregarding a human being as not morally valuable because of their level of development, dependency, and place of residence is truly tragic.

“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

“Fertilization – the fusion of gametes to produce a new organism – is the culmination of a multitude of intricately regulated cellular processes.” Marcello et al., Fertilization, ADV. EXP. BIOL. 757:321 (2013)

“Human life begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.” “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).” Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

“It should always be remembered that many organs are still not completely developed by full-term and birth should be regarded only as an incident in the whole developmental process.” F Beck Human Embryology, Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1985 page vi

“Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal and postnatal periods, it is important to realize that birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment.” The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology fifth edition, Moore and Persaud, 1993, Saunders Company, page 1

“The zygote and early embryo are living human organisms.” Keith L. Moore & T.V.N. Persaud Before We Are Born – Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects (W.B. Saunders Company, 1998. Fifth edition.) Page 500

 

[SPF]

We do not and cannot kill images of God.....It is not possible. What they are doing is terminating pregnancies.

Well, Scripture says that God created humans in His Image. Part of being made in the Image of God is that we are all inherently morally valuable. Mankind is a unique creation of God, distinct from the rest of His creation. Unfortunately, when we kill another human we are most certainly killing someone who is inherently morally valuable and created in the Image of God.

You try to liken them to killing old men......But they deserve a word of their own, and topic of there own : Abortion.

I certainly agree. Abortion is a specific type of killing. Abortion refers to the killing of human beings before they are birthed. It has a specific term, and I use it regularly.

It does them an injustice to try and say they are the same as those killed in gang wars. They had no chance to live, no chance to breathe and no chance to experience existence.

Why is it hard to just use abortion for these situation. I wouldnt saying one shot in gang wars was aborted....for it would confuse the subject.......So why say an unborn child was murdered?

I certainly agree. killing the unborn through an abortion is tragic. The are the most innocent and vulnerable of all humans created in the Image of God. I don't recall using the term "murder", you'll have to scroll back in this topic and quote me if you think I did. But abortion is certainly the killing of unborn children.