The Truth About Abortion

[coffee4u]

But it's not murder. Birth control measures do the same thing.
They keep a fertilized egg from implanting causing it to perish.

And that is murder too.

 

[coffee4u]

As I've scrolled through the discussion, I didn't catch whether anyone else brought forward this thought, so I thought I'd share it with you, for what it's worth.

When God spoke to Jeremiah, He told him, 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you."
When John the Baptist's birth was foretold, the angel of the Lord spoke to Zacharias to tell him that the child "would be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb."
I have no comment as to why the law was written as it was, but that God values the life of the unborn seems apparent from the verses I mentioned from Jeremiah 1 and Luke 1.

But I'm already convinced that your life matters and that each of us is formed, as Adam was, in the image of God. It doesn't appear that we have realized the gift God gave us in this. But we're still breathing, so there is hope that we may yet realize it.

I posted the verse, in blue, back on page 3. It's been ignored.

 

[Greengardener]

I posted the verse, in blue, back on page 3. It's been ignored.

Thanks,Coffee. I did find it after I posted - well written, too.

 

[SPF]

Define human being?

Only when a fetus becomes sentient then it's a human being, until then its just a lot of growing cells.

This of course has been demonstrated numerous times on these forums with numerous cited material to be a demonstrably false claim.

The developmental period of a human being lasts about 25 years with it beginning at fertilization.

You’re wrong to discriminate against a human based upon their level of development, dependency, or place of residence.

Your attempt to state that there is no human being until it has developed to X is entirely subjective in nature. You have no more authority to make such a claim as the myriad of other claims at different subjective lines.

 

[SkyWriting]

And that is murder too.

But that's a legal term and not really available for your emotional use.
You are angry about your lack of control over life and death.
But you being angry does not qualify as murder. Sorry.

 

[coffee4u]

But that's a legal term and not really available for your emotional use.
You are angry about your lack of control over life and death.
But you being angry does not qualify as murder. Sorry.

I am not using legal terms I use Biblical ones. God says he saw us before the body was formed. If something is taken or used that stops the new life from implanting or growing
the way it should if not taken, I see that as murder.

 

[RaymondG]

Because in 98% of all abortions there is a premeditated termination of human life. That is Biblically murder.

Do you have a different word besides abortion that were can user for the other 2%? Should we call the 98% murder, an act for which many agree incarcerated for, and call the 2% abortions?

Why not just use abortion for all of terminated pregnancies? Why add the extra confusion?

 

[RaymondG]

I was testing your statement beyond the limits you imposed. Is it still valid?

Yes, God knows and is in control of all things. He cannot say live and have man say die..... having man win. And He cannot say die and man say live,,, and man win.

Gods will trumps all.

 

[tryphena rose]

That's correct. And it's not against the wishes of the family.
Hospice is completely voluntary.

I can't think of anyone who holds the existence of life
in higher regard than the quality of life.
I have a dog that will need to be put down soon or else
we will have to watch her suffer her last weeks. For her,
we choose quality of life.

The majority of people I know with cancer decided against chemotherapy
as a quality of life decision.

Life in all forms is a blessing, no matter the suffering one may experience. Even "normal, healthy people" will suffer.

Jesus said that those who lose their lives for His sake will gain it. Therefore, aren't we supposed to lose our lives, our comforts, and experience even pain and suffering for Christ's sake? No matter the pain, we as Christians are supposed to endure as we rest in Him, for He is our comfort.

If a person has little quality of life, better the case that he can give it to Christ and gain life.

What you're advocating for is eugenics, which is not of Christ and is instead, of former godless dictatorships, i.e. China. In the mass mistreatment of slaves and mass killing of Jews, and here, abortion, there is one thing they all have in common, which is the devaluation of human life. With the slaves they weren't human, they said, with the Jews they weren't human, they said, and now here we are where unborn babies are no longer human. They are being murdered in the droves.

Do not mix up the process of fertilization with actual conception. They are not the same. You're building on conjecture to form an argument.

And dogs aren't humans. God put us over animals and God is over humans. We have authority over an animal's life since the time of Adam, and even allowed to eat them since the flood of Noah, but when it comes to murder (the malicious killing of humans by humans), this has been completely against God since Cain and Abel. A human baby, in any form, is a human. You cannot compare putting your dog down, to an abortion. It is an absurd argument for any two Christians to have.

 

[tryphena rose]

fetuses aren’t viable without the mothers body so whatever she decides is fine with me. I’ve been pregnant twice and I’m now looking forward to a great granddaughter . I wouldn’t force another woman to undergo a pregnancy if she doesn’t want to. You want to treat a woman as if her life ,safety and health don’t matter and that’s misogyny, exploitation and abuse, not morals

God made the women experience pain during childbirth, due to (specifically) Eve's sin in the garden. So what are you talking about?

God intends the family to be bountiful, the earth to be populated, and that the women goes through a natural, painful childbirth. This is evident because this is the consequence of Eve's sin that we read in the book of Genesis. This is how all of humanity has been born since the time of Eve, therefore we shouldn't tell other Christian women that they shouldn't have kids, if they're to abide by any Biblical basis. We also shouldn't advocate against the pain that God has put with us and should be led to not be ashamed of it either, because it is very beautiful to sacrifice our comfort for our child.

 

[redleghunter]

Define human being?

Only when a fetus becomes sentient then it's a human being, until then its just a lot of growing cells.

What exactly are those “growing cells?”

 

[redleghunter]

If you stab a corpse is it murder? How do you kill something that is not alive or even sentient. At some point it will become sentient, then its a person.

A fetus is not alive? If so how exactly does a human zygote grow?

 

[redleghunter]

I dislike your misuse of the term existence, at fertilization no human being exists, it has yet to be made.

Actually it’s settled science that at fertilization a distinct (from parents) human being is created. It’s why we call it procreation.

 

[redleghunter]

Do you have a different word besides abortion that were can user for the other 2%? Should we call the 98% murder, an act for which many agree incarcerated for, and call the 2% abortions?

Why not just use abortion for all of terminated pregnancies? Why add the extra confusion?

Yes the two other percent does not involve a premeditated action to kill the human in the womb.

2%-pregnant woman rushed to hospital in ambulance

98%-drives to abortion clinic.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes, God knows and is in control of all things. He cannot say live and have man say die..... having man win. And He cannot say die and man say live,,, and man win.

Gods will trumps all.

Yet mankind exercises choice to kill.

 

[coffee4u]

If you stab a corpse is it murder? How do you kill something that is not alive or even sentient. At some point it will become sentient, then its a person.

So you believe the fetus is dead but growing, interesting concept.

Cambridge dictionary
sentient
able to experience feelings

So while you are on the operating table and not sentient it's okay if someone stabs you to death too.

 

[SkyWriting]

You cannot compare putting your dog down, to an abortion. It is an absurd argument for any two Christians to have.

I didn't make such a connection. Doctors make decisions
to end lives of our family members, with family approval,
due to the quality of life issues. Yes, quality of life issues
decide if a person "qualifies" for hospice.

In Hospice, medication is given to relieve pain and sedate
your mom or dad. People don't live long when sedated.

So, quality of life issues are made daily. Nobody calls it murder
or even taking a human life. Even when it's your family.

I'm sorry you think so little of my dog. I should have limited
my comments to my father and my in-laws who all went involuntarily
into Hospice to die.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

How should we then live?

Christians live by the New Testament. We are not of this world.

 

[Brightmoon]

God made the women experience pain during childbirth, due to (specifically) Eve's sin in the garden. So what are you talking about?

God intends the family to be bountiful, the earth to be populated, and that the women goes through a natural, painful childbirth. This is evident because this is the consequence of Eve's sin that we read in the book of Genesis. This is how all of humanity has been born since the time of Eve, therefore we shouldn't tell other Christian women that they shouldn't have kids, if they're to abide by any Biblical basis. We also shouldn't advocate against the pain that God has put with us and should be led to not be ashamed of it either, because it is very beautiful to sacrifice our comfort for our child.

all mammals suffer during the birth process . Other species do as well. Humans are mammals. why do you have the mistaken idea that this painful birth process is something special or unique to humans?

 

[Brightmoon]

Actually it’s settled science that at fertilization a distinct (from parents) human being is created. It’s why we call it procreation.

and that’s just wrong what you have is a fertilized egg that if it doesn’t implant within a few days will just disintegrate or might grow into a small mass and just die. Coffee seems to think that’s murder even though up to 50% of fertilized eggs will die naturally due to developmental issues. I wonder if she thinks she murders every time she had her period and those unfertilized eggs disintegrate.