Which of the following people are saved?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

David had committed adultery, murder, and he did a census of his people (When it was against God's will - which cost people's lives). David also had multiple concubines, and wives, etc.; But I believe in time he put away those things.

As I posted, his sins were enumerated in Scripture - Yahweh did not hide them.

But that wasn't my question.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Jamdoc, post: 74664732, member: 423546"]I think this is pointless. Works salvation people are always going to just think that way. 2 Corinthians 7:1 is not telling you that this is what you do to get saved, you have to understand the context, which in this case, is telling the church at Corinth to separate themselves from non believers, don't fellowship with those who don't believe in Christ.
The last thing I will point out to you, is how do you know you're going to the resurrection of life? How many works is enough? How many times can you sin and still be forgiven? Or is one sin after you've accepted Christ as your savior it? Cause Christ only died once and will only ever die once, so if his blood only justifies you once for your past sins and its your works that justify you after that, you're in trouble.
You're a sinner, just like everyone else.[/QUOTE
=========================================================
Who said that ? > "works justify you after that" ?

Kindly quote the post where anyone said that, thanks.

 

[A_Thinker]

David had committed adultery, murder, and he did a census of his people (When it was against God's will - which cost people's lives). David also had multiple concubines, and wives, etc.; But I believe in time he put away those things.

I think that David kept his harem.

Even to the point where his son Absalom slept with David's concubines in the sight of all Israel (in his attempt to take David's throne), ... David retained his harem.

David's half-dozen wives ... and the associated children ... ultimately were a source of much pain for him. His oldest son Amnon raped a half-sister Tamar, whereupon that sister's full-blood brother Absalom ... killed that eldest son. Absalom rebelled from David, due to David's inaction in regard to the rape of his sister (i.e. David's daughter). Absalom was, ultimately, dispatched by David's men of war, over which David mourned bitterly.

Bathsheba made sure that David held out the throne for their son, Solomon, but when David passed, Solomon's elder brother Adonijah made a play for the throne, whereupon Solomon had him killed.

So ... David was no angel ... and his sins had far-reaching consequences. He is an example to us ... of the dangers fraught in neglecting to follow God's will here on earth, even in our capacity as His servants.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I think that David kept his harem.

... and ? ... so ?

So ... David was no angel ..

What does Yahweh Sovereign Creator say about King David ?

"He is a man after my own heart"

Does Yahweh say the same thing about other people you know , anywhere ?

 

[A_Thinker]

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge (Proverbs 9:10) (Proverbs 1:7). The fear of the Lord, men depart from evil (Proverbs 16:6).

The FEAR of the Lord ... is certainly, the BEGINNING, of wisdom.

How does one perfect love so as to cast out fear?

"But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." (1 John 2:5).

So if we keep His word, we perfect the love of God whereby we will then cast out fear. It is not just automatic by having a belief alone on Jesus.

I agree. We perfect our LOVE towards Him ... in our obedience to Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think this is pointless. Works salvation people are always going to just think that way. 2 Corinthians 7:1 is not telling you that this is what you do to get saved, you have to understand the context, which in this case, is telling the church at Corinth to separate themselves from non believers, don't fellowship with those who don't believe in Christ.

No. While 2 Corinthians 6 does refer to how we are not to have fellowship with unbelievers (otherwise we will receive the grace of God in vain), this is not what 2 Corinthians 7:1 says. It says, "Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God." You simply just don't believe what this verse plainly says.

Lets break the verse down into bite size pieces; It says:

#1. "Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit."
Do you believe this? No. You believe that believers cannot cleanse themselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit because of a wrong interpretation on 1 John 1:8 and Romans 3:23.

#2. "perfecting holiness"
Do you believe this? No. There is no real standard of any kind of holy living if you believe you sin 24/7 as a part of a wrong interpretation on 1 John 1:8 and Romans 3:23. You cannot have holiness, let alone perfect it if you believe you can sin and still be saved as a way of life until the day we die.

#3. "in the fear of God"
Do you believe this? No. You think the fear of God should say, "the respect of God" and not the "fear of God." Jesus says fear not the one who can destroy the body, but fear the One who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28).

The last thing I will point out to you, is how do you know you're going to the resurrection of life?

1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

So a person needs to have Jesus or the Son in order to have eternal life.
For Christ alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16).

How can we have an assurance that we know the Lord?
If we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3).
The person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4) (Note: the truth that is not in them is Jesus because John 14:6 says Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life).

How many works is enough?

"His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord."
(Matthew 25:21).

How many times can you sin and still be forgiven?

God's grace and mercy is always there for anyone who honestly stumbles. But if they seek to justify sin and evil, that really is not seeking forgiveness with the Lord but it is a mere paying of lip service (with no proper remorse over their evil or sin) there is no true grace, forgiveness, and peace.

Or is one sin after you've accepted Christ as your savior it?

There are unforgivable sins. Speaking bad words to the Spirit after being a Spirit filled believer can never be forgiven (Matthew 12:32).

Worshiping the beast means that a person never had their name in the book of life since the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8). These people who commit this sin never were even saved since birth as innocent children. They never had eternal life ever on the account of what they would do. So they never had forgiveness.

Cause Christ only died once and will only ever die once, so if his blood only justifies you once for your past sins and its your works that justify you after that, you're in trouble.

Not at all. God saves both in Justification and in Sanctification.
The blood is applied not only in Romans 3:25, but also in 1 John 1:7.
But just keep ignoring verses like 1 John 1:7 and see how that works out for you in the end.

You're a sinner, just like everyone else.

Is a butterfly still a caterpillar?

For we are to put off the old man, and put on the new man.

"That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." (Ephesians 4:22-24).

Have you put on the new man?

"This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus" (Ephesians 4:17-21).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The FEAR of the Lord ... is certainly, the BEGINNING, of wisdom.

Now your contradicting yourself. Before you said you were motivated by love and not fear. Yet, here we see that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge (Which contradicts your wrong understanding on God).

I agree. We perfect our LOVE towards Him ... in our obedience to Him.

No. I don't believe you can agree with 1 John 2:5. Before you implied that you can sin and still be saved and thus there really is no need to perfect love so as to cast out fear. There is no fear of God in your view or belief (by what you told me before).

 

[A_Thinker]

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes one act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer.

#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).

#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

#6. David needed to confess of his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).

#7. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).



But why not other sins? Surely you believe 1 John 1:8 is a declaration that believers sin every day and they are saved in those sins. Again, a corrupt society would be the result of the president setting free all criminals and pardoning their future crimes. That's not grace, but it is giving folks a license to sin, and leads to corruption and darkness. God is good, and His people are good, too (Because they uphold a standard of Morality).

Points 1-7 of your posting ... are addressed in our discussion of David.

From his grievous sin ... to his repentance and maintaining of his relationship with God, those points are addressed.

I'll address point 8 by presenting a common belief among christians ... as well as a biblical truth.

"The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from ALL of our sins."

So, then, he who stole is no longer a thief, he who murdered is no longer a murderer, etc. Paul taught on this theme.

So, then, it is those whose sins are unforgiven, no matter what they were, who take part in the second death. Therefore David won't ... because his sins were forgiven. Where there is forgiveness ... there is no longer condemnation ...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Points 1-7 of your posting ... are addressed in our discussion of David.

From his grievous sin ... to his repentance and maintaining of his relationship with God, those points are addressed.

I'll address point 8 by presenting a common belief among christians ... as well as a biblical truth.

"The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from ALL of our sins."

So, then, he who stole is no longer a thief, he who murdered is no longer a murderer, etc. Paul taught on this theme.

So, then, it is those whose sins are unforgiven, no matter what they were, who take part in the second death. Therefore David won't ... because his sins were forgiven. Where there is forgiveness ... there is no longer condemnation ...

He that commits adultery destroys his own soul according to Proverbs. You don't believe that.

 

[A_Thinker]

There are unforgivable sins.

There is only ONE unforgivable sin, per Jesus ...

Mark 3:28 "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

 

[A_Thinker]

He that commits adultery destroys his own soul according to Proverbs. You don't believe that.

Did David destroy his own soul ? Because scripture he clear ... that he was the worst type of adulterer (i.e. he killed his lover's loyal husband).

That fact has to be taken into account, as well ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Now your contradicting yourself. Before you said you were motivated by love and not fear. Yet, here we see that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge (Which contradicts your wrong understanding on God).

You are misquoting me. I, certainly, BEGAN in FEAR of the Lord.

No. I don't believe you can agree with 1 John 2:5. Before you implied that you can sin and still be saved and thus there really is no need to perfect love so as to cast out fear. There is no fear of God in your view or belief (by what you told me before).

This is all a false representing of my positions.

Perhaps you should stick to what I have said ... rather than jumping to accuse me of saying what I have not ...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As I posted, his sins were enumerated in Scripture - Yahweh did not hide them.

But that wasn't my question.

So you don't think adultery and murder are evil ways?
Did not David forsake these sins or evil ways?

Also, read Psalms 51 again.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Did David destroy his own soul ? Because scripture he clear ... that he was the worst type of adulterer (i.e. he killed his lover's loyal husband).

That fact has to be taken into account, as well ...

No. Proverbs 6 is talking about spiritual death in relation to one destroying their own soul. Forgiveness can only be had again if one confesses of their sin (1 John 1:9). Proverbs 6 was written by King Solomon and not David.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are misquoting me. I, certainly, BEGAN in FEAR of the Lord.

Again, do you believe that a believer can commit grievous sin (like hate, lying, and lusting) and still be saved while doing so?
Yes, or no?
What did you fear the Lord for when you first accepted Him?
Was it over your sin?
Or was it over having a lack of belief in Him?

This is all a false representing of my positions.

Perhaps you should stick to what I have said ... rather than jumping to accuse me of saying what I have not ...

Do you not believe future sin is forgiven a believer?
If so, then there is no need to live righteously to be saved or to worry about sin.
Do you not believe that sin is merely a loss of fellowship and not a loss of salvation?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is only ONE unforgivable sin, per Jesus ...

Mark 3:28 "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

Nope. Try reading Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8 again.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Did David destroy his own soul ? Because scripture he clear ... that he was the worst type of adulterer (i.e. he killed his lover's loyal husband).

That fact has to be taken into account, as well ...

David needed to confess of his sins in order to be forgiven of his sins. We see this in Psalms 51.

 

[bling]

What you are proposing is sort of like the President pardoning all criminals and setting them free, and if they commit any future crimes again, they are not going to be held accountable, either. I imagine some may be grateful to the president for this kind of sickening action, but chaos would break out here in America if such a thing did happen. Evil would run ramped.

Yes, the president is offering a free unconditional undeserved pardon, but the criminal has to humbly accept the free unconditional undeserved pardon as it was given as pure charity. Humans will do almost anything to avoid “accepting” pure charity to the point the person will say: “I did not accept it but it was thrust upon me, God for some reason wanted me, so no acceptance on my part needed.” We could look at Matt. 18 to understand how forgiveness works.

 

[A_Thinker]

There is only ONE unforgivable sin, per Jesus ...

Mark 3:28 "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

Nope. Try reading Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8 again.

So you're willing to directly dispute Jesus words ?

I think that we're done here ...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So you don't think adultery and murder are evil ways?
Did not David forsake these sins or evil ways?

Also, read Psalms 51 again.

Are you re-defining "ways" ?

The sins of a righteous man are disclosed in Scripture without prejudice by Yahweh,
but that does not make the righteous man's "ways" sinful....