You did not chose Me, I chose you.

[CharismaticLady]

No, I didn’t quote that.

Good. Then what were you quoting

 

[Hammster]

Good. Then what were you quoting

I could have quoted it, though. Your misunderstanding of what John is saying doesn’t nullify the truth. However, there’s more than that in scripture where we are told that we still sin and need to put sin to death.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The Greek noun translated in English as eternity is aion from which we get the word eon or age. It does not mean eternity. Its adjectival forms include aionion, ainios which the great majority of Bibles translate as eternal or forever. Thus instead of "eternal life" or "eternal punishment" it should read "age-during life" or "age-during punishment." In other words eternal life is life according to an age of time and eternal punishment likewise is punishment is according to an age of time - limited; not forever. So in keeping with Col 1:19-20, God eventually reconciles all to himself through the ages/periods of time.

What do you think of this paraphrase?

19 for God wanted all of himself to be in his Son.

20 It was through what his Son did that God cleared a path for everything to come to him—all things in heaven and on earth—for Christ’s death on the cross has made peace with God for all by his blood. 21 This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies and hated him and were separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, yet now he has brought you back as his friends.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I could have quoted it, though. Your misunderstanding of what John is saying doesn’t nullify the truth. However, there’s more than that in scripture where we are told that we still sin and need to put sin to death.

Are you sure it says "sin" to death. Christ already took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5 Maybe it said put down the flesh. That goes along with James 1:14-15 about temptation. Just resist the devil and never stay in a place of being tempted.

As for 1 John 1:8, that is not a Christian and neither is 6 or 10.

 

[Hammster]

Are you sure it says "sin" to death. Christ already took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5 Maybe it said put down the flesh. That goes along with James 1:14-15 about temptation. Just resist the devil and never stay in a place of being tempted.

As for 1 John 1:8, that is not a Christian and neither is 6 or 10.

Yes, I’m sure.

 

[Oldmantook]

I haven't looked at Col. yet, but will. So far, I'm not buying that our eternal life will someday come to an end as if God is going to die.

Don't be hasty in forming your conclusion. When aionios is combined with theos/God, it does not take away from God's eternal nature. Instead it demonstrates the manner in which God goes about doing His business - according to ages of time. Thus God is eternal but he goes about relating to his creation "age-during." Thus He is the age-during God.
Having said that, there is a single verse in the NT which refers to God's eternal nature and power. But appropriately that verse does not use the word aionios, aionion, aioniou, etc. Instead it uses the word aidios to refer to God's attributes. Rom 1:20 states:
"Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes, that is, his eternal (aidios | ἀΐδιος | nom sg fem) power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made. So they are without excuse."

 

[Oldmantook]

What do you think of this paraphrase?

19 for God wanted all of himself to be in his Son.

20 It was through what his Son did that God cleared a path for everything to come to him—all things in heaven and on earth—for Christ’s death on the cross has made peace with God for all by his blood. 21 This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies and hated him and were separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, yet now he has brought you back as his friends.

I think you know that using paraphrase translations to form one's doctrine is risky business as it leaves too much to individual interpretation. "Peace with God for all by his blood" is equated with "reconcile" which is okay but does not have quite the impact and clarity which reconcile provides. It also states peace with God for ALL; not some (men) which supports evangelical Universalism.

 

[DamianWarS]

The "mystery category" is often used when one is against the wall, not willing to accept what is right in front of them. With all due respect brother.
Blessings

the same could be said when your answer is because He is God. You have still yet to show the criteria for choosing only that he does choose.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, I’m sure.

You're sure, yet you can't give me a quote and text. I'd like to read it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think you know that using paraphrase translations to form one's doctrine is risky business as it leaves too much to individual interpretation. "Peace with God for all by his blood" is equated with "reconcile" which is okay but does not have quite the impact and clarity which reconcile provides. It also states peace with God for ALL; not some (men) which supports evangelical Universalism.

I like the addition or clarification of 'path' as long as you choose that narrow path rather than the broad highway. That is what I already believe as it is found elsewhere in scripture.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Don't be hasty in forming your conclusion. When aionios is combined with theos/God, it does not take away from God's eternal nature. Instead it demonstrates the manner in which God goes about doing His business - according to ages of time. Thus God is eternal but he goes about relating to his creation "age-during." Thus He is the age-during God.
Having said that, there is a single verse in the NT which refers to God's eternal nature and power. But appropriately that verse does not use the word aionios, aionion, aioniou, etc. Instead it uses the word aidios to refer to God's attributes. Rom 1:20 states:
"Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes, that is, his eternal (aidios | ἀΐδιος | nom sg fem) power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made. So they are without excuse."

You lost me. This is way over my head, and I have no idea what the conclusion is.

 

[Hammster]

You're sure, yet you can't give me a quote and text. I'd like to read it.

You don’t need it. You perfectly follow God’s will without error.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You don’t need it. You perfectly follow God’s will without error.

You have to play games, because there isn't one.

 

[Hammster]

I guess I'm right; there isn't one.

No, you aren’t. But since you think you’re perfect as God is perfect, you’ll just dismiss it as you have other scripture.

 

[Halbhh]

We bear fruit. There’s no reason to be cut off. If we start bearing less fruit, the Vinedresser prunes us so that we start bearing more fruit again.

And, there is more. We hear Him warn us

John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

 

[CharismaticLady]

No, you aren’t. But since you think you’re perfect as God is perfect, you’ll just dismiss it as you have other scripture.

I just had to look at your profile to see if your were just a teenager. 51. Hmmm

 

[Oldmantook]

You lost me. This is way over my head, and I have no idea what the conclusion is.

I may have misunderstood you previously but I thought that your conclusion was that if eternal does not really mean eternal, then God is not eternal. If that's the case then, I pointed out that there is a word that does mean eternal which is aidios -which does refer to God's nature and power in Rom 1:20. He alone is eternal but the other word aionion relates to the manner/process in which he relates to his creation - which is through the ages, age-during, according to the age, etc. Thus two different words with two different meanings - the former being infinite and the latter finite. Hope that makes sense.

 

[aiki]

I've read some translations that read 'being' saved. I've also read scripture that denotes after being sanctified, returning to perdition.

Again, you don't address my points but deflect or talk past them. None of the verses I posted are rendered "being saved" in any English Bible translation. In every translation, these verses communicate salvation as a past accomplished fact.

The Bible does contain verses that speak of the believer being saved, but these refer to the fact that the believer has not yet arrived in glory and that, while they are free from the penalty and power of sin, they must wait to be free from the presence of sin. In these ways the believer has yet to experience the full scope of the salvation that is already theirs in Christ. But they are saved, regardless. About this the Bible is very clear.

What verses in Scripture speak of fully sanctified believers "returning to perdition"?

You said: "All of this talks past the point I made about the Christian having a carnal nature which Paul clearly acknowledges - in direct contradiction to your claim."

Though didn't show scriptural evidence.

I most certainly did show scriptural evidence. See post #141 where I quote from Paul's letter to the Corinthians in which he acknowledges both that they are carnal and also born-again believers in Christ.

 

[Hammster]

And, there is more. We hear Him warn us

John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

There’s a context to this that I think gets missed due to chapter divisions. Judas had just left to betray Jesus. The disciples didn’t know that yet, but would soon. So I think this is Jesus explaining to them about the difference between them and Judas. He was not saved so he never produced fruit.

 

[Hammster]

I just had to look at your profile to see if your were just a teenager. 51. Hmmm

Aren’t you the one who is claiming to be without sin?