You did not chose Me, I chose you.

[Oldmantook]

I've looked at the subject of in hell forever, as opposed to instant annihilation.

There are more scriptures to instant annihilation, but then you find that one stand alone scripture that implies forever. When that happens, it goes on the shelf of "what will be will be."

Annihilation and ECT (eternal conscious torment) cannot be reconciled with Col 1:19-20 where God's stated purpose is to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself because those annihilated or eternally tormented can never be said to be reconciled to God and remain forever separated from Him. Thus these two views of hell squarely contradict with God's purpose.
Hint from G. Campbell Morgan, known as the prince of expositors, though not a Universalist himself:
In passing, and in connection with the great theme which we are only touching upon, let me say to Bible students that we must be very careful how we use the word “eternity." We have fallen into great error in our constant use of that word. There is no word in the whole Book of God corresponding with our "eternal," which, as commonly used among us, means absolutely without end. The strongest Scripture word used with reference to the existence of God, is-" unto the ages of the ages," which does not literally mean eternally. (God's Methods With Man; p 185-86)

 

[DamianWarS]

How He chose the Apostles? He is God.

Then it's a mystery and the text still does not inform of the criteria that Christ chooses us.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Annihilation and ECT (eternal conscious torment) cannot be reconciled with Col 1:19-20 where God's stated purpose is to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself because those annihilated or eternally tormented can never be said to be reconciled to God and remain forever separated from Him. Thus these two views of hell squarely contradict with God's purpose.
Hint from G. Campbell Morgan, known as the prince of expositors, though not a Universalist himself:
In passing, and in connection with the great theme which we are only touching upon, let me say to Bible students that we must be very careful how we use the word “eternity." We have fallen into great error in our constant use of that word. There is no word in the whole Book of God corresponding with our "eternal," which, as commonly used among us, means absolutely without end. The strongest Scripture word used with reference to the existence of God, is-" unto the ages of the ages," which does not literally mean eternally. (God's Methods With Man; p 185-86)

So there is no such thing as 'eternal' life?

I'll have to look into Col. 1:19-20 later.

 

[Hammster]

I have been, one at a time.

If you say so.

 

[Hammster]

So in other words Jesus didn't change a thing about you. He has put an invisibility cloak of Himself over you so the Father cannot see the sins you have no power not to commit.

Do you remember that part about being in Him?


Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
— 2 Corinthians 5:17

So no, not “in other words.”

If that isn’t enough


For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
— Romans 8:29

and


For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
— Romans 8:29

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
— Romans 12:2

There’s more if you need more.

 

[Hammster]

I have been, one at a time.

Here’s a thread, if you’re interested.

The New “No Straw Man” challenge

 

[CharismaticLady]

Do you remember that part about being in Him?

Do you also know that He is in us? It is not just one sided.

And the rest of your post leaves me wondering if you believe it if you say we still sin?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Here’s a thread, if you’re interested.

The New “No Straw Man” challenge

I get frustrated when people quote scriptures then make comments that contradict and nullify the scriptures they quote.

 

[Hammster]

Do you also know that He is in us? It is not just one sided.

And the rest of your post leaves me wondering if you believe it if you say we still sin?

Of course we still sin. Which doesn’t mean we have license to sin. Anyone who says that we don’t sin is lying to themselves.

 

[Hammster]

I get frustrated when people quote scriptures then make comments that contradict and nullify the scriptures they quote.

I have no idea what that has to do with my invitation to another thread.

 

[Oldmantook]

So there is no such thing as 'eternal' life?

I'll have to look into Col. 1:19-20 later.

The Greek noun translated in English as eternity is aion from which we get the word eon or age. It does not mean eternity. Its adjectival forms include aionion, ainios which the great majority of Bibles translate as eternal or forever. Thus instead of "eternal life" or "eternal punishment" it should read "age-during life" or "age-during punishment." In other words eternal life is life according to an age of time and eternal punishment likewise is punishment is according to an age of time - limited; not forever. So in keeping with Col 1:19-20, God eventually reconciles all to himself through the ages/periods of time.

 

[aiki]

What you don't understand is that salvation is awarded at the end of your life, not assured at the beginning of accepting Christ.

It's always...surprising to me what a stranger assumes I do or don't know.

In any event, it hasn't escaped my attention that you didn't actually deal with my point about being both a genuine believer and carnal. Paul very plainly acknowledges that both things can be true at the same time, in direct contradiction to your claim that a believer has no carnal nature.

Scripture also repeatedly speaks of salvation as a past accomplished fact for the believer:

Ephesians 2:5
5 even when we were in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved),

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Timothy 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Titus 3:5
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

1 John 5:11-13
11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 Peter 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23
23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

And so on.

There is no question whatever that salvation is an accomplished fact for the genuine child of God. That you either don't know this or refuse to acknowledge this suggests a profound ignorance or misunderstanding of the Gospel and the Christian faith on your part.

That puts you on the path, but you must grow from there, and Christ had given them all the gifts to help them grow. But the Corinthians weren't growing, they were even backtracking and allowing sins going on that were even repulsive to the heathens. He gave them a scathing talking to.

All of this talks past the point I made about the Christian having a carnal nature which Paul clearly acknowledges - in direct contradiction to your claim.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Of course we still sin. Which doesn’t mean we have license to sin. Anyone who says that we don’t sin is lying to themselves.

If you are quoting 1 John 1:8, that is about mankind BEFORE 1 John 1:9

 

[CharismaticLady]

I have no idea what that has to do with my invitation to another thread.

I've debated Calvinism so many times and it is as fruitless as trying to educate an SDA out of the law.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The Greek noun translated in English as eternity is aion from which we get the word eon or age. It does not mean eternity. Its adjectival forms include aionion, ainios which the great majority of Bibles translate as eternal or forever. Thus instead of "eternal life" or "eternal punishment" it should read "age-during life" or "age-during punishment." In other words eternal life is life according to an age of time and eternal punishment likewise is punishment is according to an age of time - limited; not forever. So in keeping with Col 1:19-20, God eventually reconciles all to himself through the ages/periods of time.

I haven't looked at Col. yet, but will. So far, I'm not buying that our eternal life will someday come to an end as if God is going to die.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Then it's a mystery and the text still does not inform of the criteria that Christ chooses us.

The "mystery category" is often used when one is against the wall, not willing to accept what is right in front of them. With all due respect brother.
Blessings

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's always...surprising to me what a stranger assumes I do or don't know.

In any event, it hasn't escaped my attention that you didn't actually deal with my point about being both a genuine believer and carnal. Paul very plainly acknowledges that both things can be true at the same time, in direct contradiction to your claim that a believer has no carnal nature.

Scripture also repeatedly speaks of salvation as a past accomplished fact for the believer:

Ephesians 2:5
5 even when we were in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved),

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Timothy 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Titus 3:5
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

1 John 5:11-13
11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 Peter 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23
23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

And so on.

There is no question whatever that salvation is an accomplished fact for the genuine child of God. That you either don't know this or refuse to acknowledge this suggests a profound ignorance or misunderstanding of the Gospel and the Christian faith on your part.



All of this talks past the point I made about the Christian having a carnal nature which Paul clearly acknowledges - in direct contradiction to your claim.

I've read some translations that read 'being' saved. I've also read scripture that denotes after being sanctified, returning to perdition.

You said: "All of this talks past the point I made about the Christian having a carnal nature which Paul clearly acknowledges - in direct contradiction to your claim."

Though didn't show scriptural evidence.

 

[Hammster]

If you are quoting 1 John 1:8, that is about mankind BEFORE 1 John 1:9

No, I didn’t quote that.

 

[Hammster]

I've debated Calvinism so many times and it is as fruitless as trying to educate an SDA out of the law.

It’s an invitation to a challenge. Decline if you like. I was just making you aware.

 

[aiki]

I don't know if you're trying to be slippery or are just willfully obtuse, but I most certainly did provide Scripture. I quoted a number of verses from 1 Corinthians 3. Please re-read my earlier post.