Number One Flaw in Cessationism

[ICONO'CLAST]

What is more important, who wants to mock it?

Give your defense for this garbage,post 124
also post 151...

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Thanks very much. I haven't read it, but I did save it into a document to print and read in bed.

Take your time, read the whole article, I just put up a starter article..

The third way in which Scripture directs us to covenantal thinking is by the specific parallel between Christ and Adam that Paul draws in Rom. 5:12-18; 1 Cor. 15: 21 f., 45-49). The solidarity of one person standing for a group, involving the whole group in the consequences of his action and receiving promises that apply to the whole group as well as to himself, is a familiar facet of biblical covenant thought, usually instanced in the case of family and national groups (Noah, Gen. 6:18, 9:9; Abraham, Gen. 17:7; the Israelites, Ex. 20:4-6, 8-12, 31:12-17 (16); Aaron, Lev. 24:8 f.;Phinehas, Num. 25:13; David, 2 Chr. 13:5, 21:7; Jer. 33:19-22). In Rom. 5:12-1 8 Paul proclaims a solidarity between Christ and his people (believers, Rom 3:22-5:2; the elect, God's chosen ones, 8:33) whereby the law-keeping, sin-bearing obedience of "the one man" brings righteousness with God, justification, and life to "the many," "all;" and he sets this within the frame of a prior solidarity, namely that between Adam and his descendants, whereby our entire race was involved in the penal consequences of Adam's transgression. The 1 Corinthians passages confirm that these are indeed covenantal solidarities; God deals with mankind through two representative men, Adam and Christ; all that are in Adam die; all that are in Christ are made alive. This far-reaching parallel is clearly foundational to Paul's understanding of God's ways with our race, and it is a covenantal way of thinking, showing from a third angle that covenant theology is indeed biblically basic.

The fourth way in which Scripture forces covenant theology upon us is by the explicit declaring of the covenant of redemption, most notably (though by no means exclusively) in the words of Jesus recorded in the gospel of John. All Jesus's references to his purpose in the world as the doing of his Father's will, and to his actual words and works as obedience to his Father's command (Jn. 4:32-34, 5:30, 6:38-40, 7:16-18, 8:28 f., 12:49 f., 14:31, 15:10, 17:4, I9:30); all his further references to his being sent by the Father into the world to perform a specific task (3:17, 34, 5:23, 30, 36, 38, 6:29, 57, 7:28, 29, 33, 8:16, 18, 26, 9:4, 10:36, 11:42, 12:44, 13:20, 14:24, 15:21, 16:5, 17:3, 8,18, 21, 23, 25, 20:21, cf. 18:37); and all his references to the Father "giving" him particular persons to save, and to his acceptance of the task of rescuing them from perishing both by dying for them and by calling and shepherding them to glory (6:37-44, 10:14-16, 27-30, 17:2, 6, 9,19, 22, 24); are so many testimonies to the reality of the covenant of redemption. The emphasis is pervasive, arresting, and inescapable: Jesus' own words force on thoughtful readers recognition of the covenant economy as foundational to all thought about the reality of God's saving grace.

 

[CharismaticLady]

They were manifesting the Spirit. (which comes with gifts) The next step was water baptism.

That's the way I did it too. I was baptized as a baby (sprinkled); baptized into the SDA church when I was 10 (immersion); baptized again after I left the SDA church (immersion, but for the wrong reason). Then when I was almost 30 I was finally born again and filled with the Spirit. It was then the Spirit that told me to be baptized. Period. It was the first baptism that counted!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Give your defense for this garbage,post 124
also post 151...

Not if you are so set on trampling the things of God. I've been told in Scripture not to do that.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Spirit, not the Apostles, distributes the gifts.
We do not need Apostles to distribute gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:4, 11
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. ...
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

 

[Butch5]

His whole household received. Is Peter an octopus?

Do you know how long Peter was speaking? You're assuming things. Peter was sent there for that very purpose. As I said to Steven, even if Peter didn't lay hands on Cornelius, there was still an apostle there. Show me where in the Bible people received the Spirit without the presence of an apostle.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:14-17 KJV)

All these people heard Philip preaching and saw the miracles and believed. The were baptized and yet none received the Holy Spirit. When the apostles heard about it they went down to Samaria and laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. Even though they believed and were baptized they didn't get any gifts until the apostles laid hands on them.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Take your time, read the whole article, I just put up a starter article..

I just copied what you wrote on Covenant Theology.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Do you know how long Peter was speaking? You're assuming things. Peter was sent there for that very purpose. As I said to Steven, even if Peter didn't lay hands on Cornelius, there was still an apostle there. Show me where in the Bible people received the Spirit without the presence of an apostle.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:14-17 KJV)

All these people heard Philip preaching and saw the miracles and believed. The were baptized and yet none received the Holy Spirit. When the apostles heard about it they went down to Samaria and laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. Even though they believed and were baptized they didn't get any gifts until the apostles laid hands on them.

I go by Scripture. You are listening to a religious spirit, instead of the abundant life Jesus would love to give you.

 

[Saint Steven]

That's the way I did it too. I was baptized as a baby (sprinkled); baptized into the SDA church when I was 10 (immersion); baptized again after I left the SDA church (immersion, but for the wrong reason). Then when I was almost 30 I was finally born again and filled with the Spirit. It was then the Spirit that told me to be baptized. Period. It was the first baptism that counted!

Even in the Book of Acts we see that there was no set way for the order of events.

 

[Butch5]

The Spirit, not the Apostles, distributes the gifts.
We do not need Apostles to distribute gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:4, 11
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. ...
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

The Father distributed the gifts. The apostles laid hands on the ones receiving the gifts from the Father.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Even in the Book of Acts we see that there was no set way for the order of events.

Yes, God doesn't want us to live by restrictive formulas and religious spirits. Jesus used all sorts of methods to heal people so we wouldn't get in that trap.

 

[Butch5]

I go by Scripture. You are listening to a religious spirit, instead of the abundant life Jesus would love to give you.

That's the typical bail.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Not if you are so set on trampling the things of God. I've been told in Scripture not to do that.

That is the point CL, heretics like this are warned about in scripture, not believed. This is not defensible.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That's the typical bail.

I was a Cessationist too while I was growing up. I was taught that speaking in tongues today was of the devil. Have you gone that far?

 

[Saint Steven]

It's likely that Paul was there with the elders. That's the only way to reconcile the passages. Ananias was an apostle, he was sent by the Lord. He just wasn't one of the twelve.

That blows your whole theory.
Anyway, it is the Spirit that distributes gifts, not humankind.

1 Corinthians 12:4, 11
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. ...
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

 

[Butch5]

For those interested in Cessation argument I've written a short paper on this subject of Spiritual Gifts.

 

[swordsman1]

Even extinct languages were human languages, and the point is only that GOD UNDERSTANDS THEM ALL. But angels have a language also, and Paul wouldn't confuse us like Clement did by taking about a mythical bird. 1 Corinthians 14:2 is either true or it is not.

Human languages, yes. But nowhere in scripture does it say believers speak in angelic languages. Before you quote 1 Cor 13:1 read the next 2 verses.

And there is only one way that supernatural tongues can be understood. How?

By people knowing the language spoken of course, as per Acts 2. Or by someone translating it as per 1 Cor 14:5.

 

[Saint Steven]

Luke clearly said that the Holy Spirit was given by the laying of the apostles hands.

That is not correct.

 

[Butch5]

I was a Cessationist too while I was growing up. I was taught that speaking in tongues today was of the devil. Have you gone that far?

I see people believing all kinds of stuff that isn't in the Bible.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Father distributed the gifts. The apostles laid hands on the ones receiving the gifts from the Father.

Is that what this says?

1 Corinthians 12:4, 11
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. ...
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.