Number One Flaw in Cessationism

[CharismaticLady]

What ended the Old Covenant making way for the New Covenant? Or are we still under the Law? Did Christ put New Wine into old wineskins? Do you desperately need a lesson in Covenant Theology??? Cessationists certainly do.

Christ's death was the last sacrifice and was the end and fulfillment of the Old Covenant with its laws and sacrifices, all needed because of Adam's sin. It was because of sin that the Old Covenant was needed. Christ dealt with the sin issue once and for all for all who enter His New Covenant. The giving of the Holy Spirit was the beginning of the New Covenant needed to prepare us for eternal life in heaven, where only the righteous and holy, Revelation 22:11, will live and reign with Christ. (No sinners, only children of God. John 8:32-36). Not understanding covenant theology is why there is so much false teaching about 'always being a sinner' in the Church as Cessationists have been taught and teach. It is the Holy Spirit that takes the power away from the old nature and makes us born again with a divine nature, 2 Peter 1. Christ's sacrifice and resurrection was a foreshadow of the death of our sin nature and our new life in Him. Christ ended the Law, and His death and resurrection and ascension to heaven brought us the indwelling Spirit. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death.

Covenant Theology 101. (Matthew 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." In other words, nothing ceases inside a covenant until the covenant, itself, is fulfilled.) The covenant is a will and testament. Christ preached the New Covenant (like writing His will and testament while alive), but it was not put into affect until the death of the Testator, Hebrews 9:6. Out with the old; in with the NEW. Seeing Christ face to face at the second coming is when the gifts of the Spirit will no longer be necessary and will cease. That is the end of the New Covenant.

What Cessationists don't understand among many things is that even with the Bible we only get a dim view of the glory of God, like seeing Him through a dark glass. They think the gifts were only for writing the Bible, yet most of their prayers are not answered, or has prayer ceased too, because it takes gifts of the Spirit to know God's will in particular situations, to pray accurately and receive what you pray for - the sign of our assurance 1 John 3:18-24. But, don't worry, if you are a Cessationist, God won't force the gifts onto a non-believer of the gifts, so you're safe, like an agoraphobic. Not really living to the fullest, but safe.

If you notice, Christ, Himself, brought in the 1st covenant of the Ten Commandments. It was His finger. And only He can end that covenant, which He did on the cross; just as only He can start and end the New Covenant, by returning to heaven and sending His Spirit to start the covenant, and coming again in the second coming to end the covenant with its partial knowledge of God. The New Testament and everything in it, like it or not, is ours, including every gift and office. Christ did not end the New Covenant with the death of the apostles. They fulfilled their ministry to preach the New Covenant just as we are commissioned to do, and Jesus has supplied us with everything we need to sustain us through His Own Spirit, just like He did them. And it did not end with the publishing of the Bible, for the Bible is still only partial knowledge. There is a reason tongues is a "sign to the unbeliever" - to the mockers, even inside the Church, the "uninformed" - Cessationists. It is accurately called a "sign which will be spoken against" (by unbelievers). The Laodecians do not want or need all that God has for us, and the reason they are lukewarm and dull of hearing God's voice.

 

[swordsman1]

Whether you believe certain gifts have ceased or not, one thing is certain - what people call 'gifts' today do not match the biblical descriptions of those gifts. Today's 'tongues' do not match the tongues seen in scripture. Today's 'healings' do not match the gift of healing seen in scripture. Today's 'prophecies' do not match prophecy seen in scripture. They are poor counterfeits.

 

[Acts2:38]

Hello,

I really enjoyed your explanation and scriptural truth up until the "miracles/gifts" part. This section here I put in quoting you:

What Cessationists don't understand among many things is that even with the Bible we only get a dim view of the glory of God, like seeing Him through a dark glass. They think the gifts were only for writing the Bible, yet most of their prayers are not answered, or has prayer ceased too, because it takes gifts of the Spirit to know God's will in particular situations, to pray accurately and receive what you pray for - the sign of our assurance 1 John 3:18-24. But, don't worry, if you are a Cessationist, God won't force the gifts onto a non-believer of the gifts, so you're safe, like an agoraphobic. Not really living to the fullest, but safe.

This is the one part I would say is in scriptural error. The rest seemed spot on.

#1 First error, you compared "prayer" as a miraculous gift on the same level as tongues and what have you. It is not. "Prayer" is a "spiritual blessing" reserved for those who are in Christ. There is a huge difference there. Everyone (unsaved and saved) has the "physical blessing" of "being fruitful and multiplying" which is quite obviously not a miracle (supernatural going against what is natural or normal). However only the saved are granted access to prayer.

Ephesians 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

It continues to list a broad spectrum of the blessings, in the following verses in which prayer would fall under.

It is clear that God would listen to any with that blessing of prayer so long as they are "in Christ" (Galatians 3:26-27;Ephesians 1:3) when looking at 1 Peter 3:12. The reason I mention this is because when it came to miracles, people granted the miracles gifts didnt typically have ALL of the miracles, hence when Paul mentioned:

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. (1 Cor. 13)

Elsewhere we also see Paul said:
1 Cor. 12
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

So it would be obvious prayer is not a miraculous gift, but a spiritual blessing, which is different, because everyone "in Christ" has access to prayer to God through Jesus.


#2 The second error, is you imply miraculous gifts still happen today.

Paul was quite clear that these would vanish away when a certain event happened. John and Mark also support this.

First Paul.
1 Cor. 13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Since Christ is not a "that", but a "he", it would stand to reason that the "that which is perfect" is the bible, which was not fully written out until around 96 AD. We know for a fact as well that scripture from God written by men through the Holy Spirit, makes scripture just that, perfect 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

So I dont leave any loose ends, the "knowledge" talked about in verse 8 is merely the miraculous gift of knowledge mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:8. Not to be confused with just normal simple knowledge we can obtain, but knowledge granted by the Holy Spirit. Some people get hung up on that one so I jotted it in here.

Paul even states this here to the Ephesians in chpt 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

This supports 1 Cor 13 in the fact that miracles (supernatural against what is normal/natural process) will cease "when that which is perfect comes".

Miracles were only used to "confirm the word", show the world that Jesus was the Christ, and to "perfect the saints for ministry and edify the body of Christ (Eph 4:12)"

John says,
20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Mark says,
16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

All 4 gospels witness that Jesus is the Christ.

So, do we need to have the word confirmed now days?

The bible is completed. There wont be any more revelations. There is no need for miracles anymore. It has all been confirmed now. It's our job to be messengers with this completed word.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hello,

I really enjoyed your explanation and scriptural truth up until the "miracles/gifts" part. This section here I put in quoting you:



This is the one part I would say is in scriptural error. The rest seemed spot on.

#1 First error, you compared "prayer" as a miraculous gift on the same level as tongues and what have you. It is not. "Prayer" is a "spiritual blessing" reserved for those who are in Christ. There is a huge difference there. Everyone (unsaved and saved) has the "physical blessing" of "being fruitful and multiplying" which is quite obviously not a miracle (supernatural going against what is natural or normal). However only the saved are granted access to prayer.

Ephesians 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

It continues to list a broad spectrum of the blessings, in the following verses in which prayer would fall under.

It is clear that God would listen to any with that blessing of prayer so long as they are "in Christ" (Galatians 3:26-27;Ephesians 1:3) when looking at 1 Peter 3:12. The reason I mention this is because when it came to miracles, people granted the miracles gifts didnt typically have ALL of the miracles, hence when Paul mentioned:

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. (1 Cor. 13)

Elsewhere we also see Paul said:
1 Cor. 12
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

So it would be obvious prayer is not a miraculous gift, but a spiritual blessing, which is different, because everyone "in Christ" has access to prayer to God through Jesus.


#2 The second error, is you imply miraculous gifts still happen today.

Paul was quite clear that these would vanish away when a certain event happened. John and Mark also support this.

First Paul.
1 Cor. 13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Since Christ is not a "that", but a "he", it would stand to reason that the "that which is perfect" is the bible, which was not fully written out until around 96 AD. We know for a fact as well that scripture from God written by men through the Holy Spirit, makes scripture just that, perfect 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

So I dont leave any loose ends, the "knowledge" talked about in verse 8 is merely the miraculous gift of knowledge mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:8. Not to be confused with just normal simple knowledge we can obtain, but knowledge granted by the Holy Spirit. Some people get hung up on that one so I jotted it in here.

Paul even states this here to the Ephesians in chpt 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

This supports 1 Cor 13 in the fact that miracles (supernatural against what is normal/natural process) will cease "when that which is perfect comes".

Miracles were only used to "confirm the word", show the world that Jesus was the Christ, and to "perfect the saints for ministry and edify the body of Christ (Eph 4:12)"

John says,
20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Mark says,
16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

All 4 gospels witness that Jesus is the Christ.

So, do we need to have the word confirmed now days?

The bible is completed. There wont be any more revelations. There is no need for miracles anymore. It has all been confirmed now. It's our job to be messengers with this completed word.

Everyone prays, but does everyone's prayers get answered? THAT is what I'm talking about - answered prayer. Did you know that answered prayer is the assurance that you are even pleasing to God and on your way to salvation?

Next, I would like to know how you view that tongues today are different than that of the 1st century.

P.S., Congratulations on your "winner" from the number one Cessationist on the forums.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Whether you believe certain gifts have ceased or not, one thing is certain - what people call 'gifts' today do not match the biblical descriptions of those gifts. Today's 'tongues' do not match the tongues seen in scripture. Today's 'healings' do not match the gift of healing seen in scripture. Today's 'prophecies' do not match prophecy seen in scripture. They are poor counterfeits.

Interesting how you left off HOW they differ. Statements without fact.

 

[Albion]

Whether you believe certain gifts have ceased or not, one thing is certain - what people call 'gifts' today do not match the biblical descriptions of those gifts. Today's 'tongues' do not match the tongues seen in scripture. Today's 'healings' do not match the gift of healing seen in scripture. Today's 'prophecies' do not match prophecy seen in scripture. They are poor counterfeits.

Some excellent points there, and we need to keep in mind the most basic point of all when it comes to the terminology used in this discussion entitled "Number One Flaw in Cessationism" --

"Cessationists" are cessationists for the most basic of reasons...because tongues DID cease. If they hadn't, cessationists wouldn't be arguing that they will or should or might or any of that.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Some excellent points there, and we need to keep in mind the most basic point of all when it comes to the terminology used in this discussion entitled "Number One Flaw in Cessationism" --

"Cessationists" are cessationists for the most basic of reasons...because tongues DID cease. If they hadn't, cessationists wouldn't be arguing that they will or should or might or any of that.

They seemed to, yes. But on the Day of Pentecost Peter prophesied from the prophecy in Joel 2. In that prophecy there is the early and latter rain. That is the outpourings of the Holy Spirit in connection with the first and second comings of Christ.

The Day of Pentecost was the early rain. Then as you pointed out, tongues did seem to cease; however, they were found sprinkled throughout that time of church history. But now is the time of the latter rain, and now we see tongues flourishing again before the second coming.

Again, you don't know Covenant Theology which is the number one flaw in Cessationism. If you did, you wouldn't say anything ceased completely.

 

[Der Alte]

Whether you believe certain gifts have ceased or not, one thing is certain - what people call 'gifts' today do not match the biblical descriptions of those gifts. Today's 'tongues' do not match the tongues seen in scripture. Today's 'healings' do not match the gift of healing seen in scripture. Today's 'prophecies' do not match prophecy seen in scripture. They are poor counterfeits.

Nonsense! I have seen miraculous healings.

 

[Albion]

They seemed to, yes. But on the Day of Pentecost Peter prophesied from the prophecy in Joel 2. In that prophecy there is the early and latter rain. That is the outpourings of the Holy Spirit in connection with the first and second comings of Christ.

The Day of Pentecost was the early rain. Then as you pointed out, tongues did seem to cease; however, they were found sprinkled throughout that time of church history. But now is the time of the latter rain, and now we see tongues flourishing again before the second coming.

Again, you don't know Covenant Theology which is the number one flaw in Cessationism. If you did, you wouldn't say anything ceased completely.

Thats only a claim. One that is intended to keep alive the belief that tongues didn't cease.

But no matter how many times that is said, they did actually cease, so that's all that a Cessationist is pointing to--what happened cannot be denied just by saying 'we had reason to think it wouldn't happen!'

In addition, if something ceases but then reappears or starts up again, that still amounts to "ceased." If I read your post correctly, you are saying that although there was a gap between the "early rain" and the "latter rain," the existence of the "latter rain" means that there was no cessation. But there was...in between the two.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Thats only a claim. One that is intended to keep alive the belief that tongues didn't cease.

But no matter how many times that is said, they did actually cease, so that's all that a Cessationist is pointing to--what happened cannot be denied just by saying 'we had reason to think it wouldn't happen!'

In addition, if something ceases but then reappears or starts up again, that still amounts to "ceased." If I read your post correctly, you are saying that although there was a gap between the "early rain" and the "latter rain," the existence of the "latter rain" means that there was no cessation. But there was...in between the two.

Are you in a different Covenant than us?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Thats only a claim. One that is intended to keep alive the belief that tongues didn't cease.

But no matter how many times that is said, they did actually cease, so that's all that a Cessationist is pointing to--what happened cannot be denied just by saying 'we had reason to think it wouldn't happen!'

In addition, if something ceases but then reappears or starts up again, that still amounts to "ceased." If I read your post correctly, you are saying that although there was a gap between the "early rain" and the "latter rain," the existence of the "latter rain" means that there was no cessation. But there was...in between the two.

Don't you know some summers are very dry with a few showers here and there. That is why these outpouring are referred to as the early and latter rain. It never ceased, and neither have our seasons.

 

[Albion]

Don't you know some summers are very dry with a few showers here and there. That is why these outpouring are referred to as the early and latter rain. It never ceased, and neither have our seasons.

If something ceased--as in the case of tongues--then they ceased. It doesn't matter if they started up later, they would nevertheless have ceased at the earlier time. Any interruption, any period without whatever it is, any break in the continuity means that a cessation occurred.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Thats only a claim. One that is intended to keep alive the belief that tongues didn't cease.

But no matter how many times that is said, they did actually cease, so that's all that a Cessationist is pointing to--what happened cannot be denied just by saying 'we had reason to think it wouldn't happen!'

In addition, if something ceases but then reappears or starts up again, that still amounts to "ceased." If I read your post correctly, you are saying that although there was a gap between the "early rain" and the "latter rain," the existence of the "latter rain" means that there was no cessation. But there was...in between the two.

Is it just tongues you don't believe in, or other gifts of the Spirit? What about the gifts that require hearing God's voice literally? Do you believe in them?

 

[CharismaticLady]

If something ceased--as in the case of tongues--then they ceased. It doesn't matter if they started up later, they would nevertheless have ceased at the earlier time.

Do you then agree that the latter rain has come and with tongues and all the other gifts?

 

[Albion]

Is it just tongues you don't believe in, or other gifts of the Spirit? What about the gifts that require hearing God's voice literally? Do you believe in them?

I'm only commenting on the claims regarding tongues and the resulting scorn that it directed at "cessationists" merely because they acknowledge something that we know to have happened.

It's not as though cessationists want a cessation to have occurred or have denied anything in the Bible that continuationists commonly cite as if it supports their contentions.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm only commenting on the claims regarding tongues and the resulting scorn that it directed at "cessationists" merely because they acknowledge something that we know to have happened.

It's not as though cessationists want a cessation to have occurred or have denied anything in the Bible that continuationists commonly cite as if it supports their contentions.

There was a reason why God made tongues to be peculiar sounding. It is easy to mock, so don't tell me cessationists don't want it to have ended. Only they and complete unbelievers dare to call a gift of God, "gibberish" as if they have no fear of the Lord at all!

 

[Saint Steven]

Everyone prays, but does everyone's prayers get answered? THAT is what I'm talking about - answered prayer. Did you know that answered prayer is the assurance that you are even pleasing to God and on your way to salvation?

Could you flesh out what you mean when you say "answered prayer"?

It seems to me that making requests is only one aspect of prayer, and even a "No.", is an answer. Three basic choices for answers to prayer requests: Yes, No, or Wait.

And PERSONALLY, I prefer not to tell God what I NEED from him. I present the problem and let him formulate the solution. How likely would Moses have ASKED God to part the Red Sea so that the Israelites could pass through? God's solutions are beyond our imagination.

Also, I believe God listens to everyone's prayers, whether saved or lost. Anyone that wants to talk to him has an audience. Even the prayers of the lost are oftentimes "answered prayers".

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Here is an example of a missing NT book.
Col 4:16 And when this letter has been read among you, have it also read in the church of the Laodiceans; and see that you also read the letter from Laodicea.
Col 4:17 And say to Archippus, “See that you fulfill the ministry that you have received in the Lord.”
Col 4:18 I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand. Remember my chains. Grace be with you.

And we read in 1 Corinthians that there was a previous letter to the Corinthians, making 3.

The early fathers differed in their views on Corinthian tongues, between Eastern Orthodox and Latin Fathers. The earlier thought it was a confusion of the true gift of tongues. Many among Roman Catholics pray in tongues and some interpret.

 

[Saint Steven]

Some excellent points there, and we need to keep in mind the most basic point of all when it comes to the terminology used in this discussion entitled "Number One Flaw in Cessationism" --

"Cessationists" are cessationists for the most basic of reasons...because tongues DID cease. If they hadn't, cessationists wouldn't be arguing that they will or should or might or any of that.

Tongues and the other gifts didn't cease. They were just less prevalent.

A search on "spiritual gifts through the ages" yields historic info on this.

A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says:
"Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished
for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held
rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet
through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly
embraced the true faith with their whole minds."

A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John.
He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear
many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit
speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden
things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."

A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states:
"Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers
to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.

A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days,
he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any
clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that
they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of
His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman,
another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that
were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle
calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."

A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and
considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid
hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

Source link

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

An error is seen amongst persons with a sense of fate and destiny. The idea Peter and Paul could not have lived on passed Nero's persecution under his reign. Nero was hard to convert. Paul tried. Nero was a psychopath. I believe God the Father and Jesus the Son wanted Rome turned upside down before the death of Paul.

Paul there preaching to the Roman senate and garrison. But some think it was God's plan to strike him down like Obe Wan Kenobe. With the deaths of Peter and Paul, and the exile of John we see a blockade. John demonstrated what an old man apostle could do in his last months of life. Just think if Nero died instead of Peter and Paul!

People romanticise that the blood of the saints in Rome were the seeds of the church, illogical! Surely if they lived on they would have made converts and sent missions abroad that had to wait until after Martin Luther, to the coming of the Moravians and John Wesley for their revival. 1500 years of stagnation. If tongues ceased in the second or third or fourth centuries, it was the adversary who stopped them rather than the Spirit of God. The gifts works are not over.

Timothy gained gifts as mentioned by Paul. So he found his mission and rose into service. And so too would have Polycarp and Timothy's disciples. There are mentions of healing rallies in the third century. And still the laying on of hands on Augustine of Hippo, for his conversion and works. Brethren still need this.

Nero served no valid purpose and even makes me question Romans' words on honouring the head of state. People like Nero, Hitler, Stalin, Amin and Un. Our mission of giving the word of the Gospel to all nations and every person was stagnated and partially frozen by such people. The RCC acted too politically and harshly controlling Europe for centuries. Peter and Paul were not meant to die in 66 AD. Maybe by the time of Antioch's church plant Peter had succeeded in going far enough so to say the faith was once delivered to the saints.

The church's life is in the Spirit and in the gifts and the anointing that still is needed today to teach us scripture and all manner of things. Just as Jesus' blood never ceases so the New Covenant and the gifts do not cease. Only when Christ returns, from Him a person, comes a thing like the gifts or the Bible, in that it is light and revelation, but that is brighter and clearer than the gifts of the Spirit, so only then they cease, in the future.

The Bible isn't perfect. And it did not come by spiritual gifts, but by the Spirit, presence and power, His revelation to the apostles and gentiles of Himself, His love and graces... and the anointing. Prophecy and knowledge gifts may have helped. Isaiah 11:2 is better.

God gave us the Bible and could do it again, He is still the same.