What does the Bible say on women becoming pastors?

[Robin Mauro]

It sounds like you're blinded by feminism (the world). You cannot read the bible with feminist colored half-empty glasses. Women are physically weaker than men. All those movies you've been watching where a 90 pound woman beats up a group of men each weighing 200 plus pounds is not real. It's part of your brainwashing. Turn off your TV, turn off your facebook, turn off your women's lib blog, and come back to earth. Men and women have different roles, we may be equal before God, but we are not equal. We are different. Humble yourself.

Please don't be insulting. I do not have tv, I do not watch violent movies, and I know women are physically weaker than men, for the most part, but not in every case.
And do you deny that women serve in the military, fight fire, climb telephone poles, etc.?Perhaps it is your patriarchal world view which is shaping your views of the Bible, not mine.
I know men and women are different. They are also, in many ways the same. Would you be one of the men who fought women being able to vote, to have leadership positions, etc. ? The Bible is clear. There were always women leaders. And men are not better than women. How very sad that you have a problem with equal rights. That is a reflection on you, not me, and not on God.
Paul's words are debatable, and he was the only one who said them. I imagine he was not the easiest person to deal with.
Tha apostles disagreed a number of times.. The apostles were also not perfect. Remember when two of them (I think 2) offered to Jesus to rain down fire on those who they opposed, and Jesus rebuked them, saying they did not know of what spirit they came? We should be able to have a discusiion without all of the insults. May the Lord forgive you. You do not know me, but He does.

 

[SwordmanJr]

Simply, marriage (which is all the fleshly aspects of Paul’s teachings) is a depiction/shadow/metaphore of Father and Son relationship. The copy that is in heaven. We/Christians/male/female/ etc etc are in the Son. Equal to the first-born as far as flesh goes.
The shadow puts male in the place of the Father, not in the Son. Essentially that is wrong.
To place oneself there is where Lucifer wanted to ascend higher but ended up falling.

Paul places himself in the place of the Father to give the metaphor from God’s perspective, but that was not his place except as a teaching method.

So, let's put this together with what Paul said about women not being allowed to teach in the Church, and women usurping authority over men. How do they relate?

BTW, as an ordained minister over our congregation, with lay pastors who serve with our team, we have both men and women in that rank of people who serve. The women teach the younger women, and the men lead cell groups.

Jr

 

[Robin Mauro]

The Apostles and Disciples Had Major Disagreements and Made Mistakes | OriginalChristianity.Net

 

[SwordmanJr]

...Paul's words are debatable, and he was the only one who said them.

So, when Paul said that ALL scripture is by inspiration from God, you believe he is wrong? Please elaborate how one applies the acid test for truth if not accepting of all that is written by the hands of the men who were inspired by the Most High. Do you believe society and culture define morality and ethics. Please clarify.

Tha apostles disagreed a number of times.. The apostles were also not perfect.

And yet the Lord chose imperfect men to write down what He inspired them to write. Paul had clearly stated when something was from himself rather than the Lord, and stated that all else is from the Lord. Are you now saying that we are all qualified to differentiate, on some unnamed, undefined, subjective basis, what is acceptable and what is not as originating from God?

Jr

 

[Robin Mauro]

So, when Paul said that ALL scripture is by inspiration from God, you believe he is wrong? Please elaborate how one applies the acid test for truth if not accepting of all that is written by the hands of the men who were inspired by the Most High. Do you believe society and culture define morality and ethics. Please clarify.



And yet the Lord chose imperfect men to write down what He inspired them to write. Paul had clearly stated when something was from himself rather than the Lord, and stated that all else is from the Lord. Are you now saying that we are all qualified to differentiate, on some unnamed, undefined, subjective basis, what is acceptable and what is not as originating from God?

Jr

No, I am saying perhaps God is doing a new thing in the earth, as was prophesied.

 

[jahel]

So, let's put this together with what Paul said about women not being allowed to teach in the Church, and women usurping authority over men. How do they relate?

Personally I place it’s spiritual application as not usurping the authority of the Spirit 1 Peter 4:11. Please consider that "as Christ loves the church”s meaning is to Him as our forerunner, one who exemplified obedience. His commendments were toward hearing the voice of the Father and expressing them, His discipline toward that spoken by a wrong spirit.
So technechally a prophet only is in the right. Which may be why Paul said to desire that gift.

BTW, as an ordained minister over our congregation, with lay pastors who serve with our team, we have both men and women in that rank of people who serve. The women teach the younger women, and the men lead cell groups.

Jr

It does simplify no doubt. I just object to feeling defiled when someone with virgin ears needs to receive cleansing for overhearing someone teach that doesn’t fit their standards banner.

 

[jahel]

BTW, as an ordained minister over our congregation, with lay pastors who serve with our team, we have both men and women in that rank of people who serve. The women teach the younger women, and the men lead cell groups.

So simplify that package for us. What is the criteria of what the men teach compared to any restrictions on what women teach?

 

[Romans 8]

Paul's words are debatable, and he was the only one who said them. I imagine he was not the easiest person to deal with.
Tha apostles disagreed a number of times.. The apostles were also not perfect. Remember when two of them (I think 2) offered to Jesus to rain down fire on those who they opposed, and Jesus rebuked them, saying they did not know of what spirit they came? We should be able to have a discusiion without all of the insults. May the Lord forgive you. You do not know me, but He does.

The apostles were men! They had all of the same emotions and feelings as we do. That's the whole point! To show us the Truth through the stories of God and men in the Old Testament and Jesus and men in the New Testament. Only Jesus is perfect, we are all flawed and none without sin.

Paul's words are not debatable, they are the anointed Word of God. You need to be able to discern when a story is being told and when God is speaking through these men. I recommend you find a decent commentary such as Mathew Henry's and seek deliverance from the Liberal brainwashing you've suffered. I will continue to pray for you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Whoever rejects Jesus rejects the Apostle's Words also, and whoever rejects the Apostle's Words, has already rejected Jesus, according to all Scripture.

 

[oldhermit]

Paul's words are debatable, and he was the only one who said them. I imagine he was not the easiest person to deal with.

That is an interesting take. How would you defend this in light of Luke 10:16, "He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” Paul confirms that what he has to say on this matter are the words of the Lord. Was Paul lying?

 

[oldhermit]

Paul's words are debatable, and he was the only one who said them. I imagine he was not the easiest person to deal with.

That is an interesting take. How would you defend this in light of Luke 10:16, "He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” Paul confirms that what he has to say on this matter are the words of the Lord. Was Paul lying?

 

[hedrick]

It sounds like you're blinded by feminism (the world). You cannot read the bible with feminist colored half-empty glasses. Women are physically weaker than men. All those movies you've been watching where a 90 pound woman beats up a group of men each weighing 200 plus pounds is not real. It's part of your brainwashing. Turn off your TV, turn off your facebook, turn off your women's lib blog, and come back to earth. Men and women have different roles, we may be equal before God, but we are not equal. We are different. Humble yourself.

Attacking someone's motives is neither a valid form of argument nor an effective approach in persuading people.

 

[Paidiske]

by doing it someplace other than the church gathering......which is in every way possible and permitted.

But, as we can see from very early church documents such as the Shepherd of Hermas, prophecy outside the church gathering was actually not permitted (at least not everywhere). It was felt that prophecy ought to be done under the oversight of the elders and the other prophets, not something done individually away from accountability to the community.

That's not necessarily definitive but it does suggest that there was and should continue to be a place for prophecy (and the voices of prophets) in the gathered community.

If the issue is women as pastors (which it is), it does not mean that women as prophets or church workers, women speaking in the church, women as competent to conduct the responsibilities of the priesthood if given the opportunity, or women being appreciated by God the same as men...is the same issue. None of those is the issue.

I disagree with you on one point here, Albion; "women being appreciated by God the same as men" is part of the same issue. Because if God does not, will not, gift and call women for ministry the same as men, that is very much a lack of being appreciated by God. A "less-than" state of being.

 

[Romans 8]

Attacking someone's motives is neither a valid form of argument nor an effective approach in persuading people.

I could have worded it to sound less harsh but the message would still be the same.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

But, as we can see from very early church documents such as the Shepherd of Hermas, prophecy outside the church gathering was actually not permitted (at least not everywhere). It was felt that prophecy ought to be done under the oversight of the elders and the other prophets, not something done individually away from accountability to the community.

the "prophesy of Hermas" isn't the rule for believers so its pointless to bring it up. couple that with the fact that all the prophets of the old testament narrative weren't prophesying under elder oversight and i'm not sure why such a point would even be brought to bear.

That's not necessarily definitive but it does suggest that there was and should continue to be a place for prophecy (and the voices of prophets) in the gathered community.

and there is....just not for women.

 

[Paidiske]

the "prophesy of Hermas" isn't the rule for believers so its pointless to bring it up. couple that with the fact that all the prophets of the old testament narrative weren't prophesying under elder oversight and i'm not sure why such a point would even be brought to bear.

Because it shows that New Testament comments about women prophesying weren't necessarily limited to an outside-the-gathered-community context, but in fact probably pertained to prophecy within the gathered community.

and there is....just not for women.

I cannot agree with you.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Because it shows that New Testament comments about women prophesying weren't necessarily limited to an outside-the-gathered-community context, but in fact probably pertained to prophecy within the gathered community.

it shows no such thing..

you're welcomed to substantiate your assertion.

I cannot agree with you.

i'm not concerned with you agreeing with me. i'm interested in you substantiating the contrary from the biblical text.

many have tried, all have failed.

 

[Paidiske]

it shows no such thing..

you're welcomed to substantiate your assertion.

Given that the shepherd dates to a time not much later than the latest NT works, it demonstrates how things were actually done in the communities which produced those works (or, more accurately at least, in the church in Rome). Therefore, when it shows a church in which prophecy was confined to the gathered community, it is reasonable to think that that was not a very recent development but that NT churches would also have had prophecy in the gathered community (including from women). Nothing in the NT contradicts this.

i'm not concerned with you agreeing with me. i'm interested in you substantiating the contrary from the biblical text.

The Biblical text gives me Phoebe the deacon and Junia the apostle. It gives me women who led and presided over the worship of churches which met in their homes. It gives me women who taught, women who prophesied, women who evangelised. Women I can look to as role models and exemplars of faithful Christian women in leadership.

I know people try to explain all of those women away, downgrade their roles to the ancient equivalent of doing the photocopying and pouring the tea, in an effort to keep women quiet and disempowered in the church today, but their explanations are unconvincing. Women who lead, teach, preach, prophecy, plant churches and all the rest today follow in the footsteps of our New Testament sisters.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but just wanted to ask a quick question that's been on my mind. Is it unethical or sinful (might not be the correct word) to attend church servies where women are pastors?

I read an article recently authored by a Baptist pastor who said that women shouldn't be ''leading men'' which is why women leading churches, is something Christians should avoid.

I'm not sure if there is any Scripture to back this up, could you help me out? Thanks.

Yes, Dierdre.

1 Timothy 2

is extremely clear. If we hear and love Christ, we should hear and love His Apostles, and obey Scripture.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As Jesus says, there are a few good true on the road to life,
and many bad false on the road to destruction,
so each one before being accepted must be tested and pass the test as written in Scripture.
Each idea, message, spirit, messenger, and so forth - because there is so much deception all throughout the whole earth/ world/ society.

Better to listen to faithful women , and learn the truth, (proven true),

than to listen to a false gospel man teacher, and be deceived !