What does the Bible say on women becoming pastors?

[Deidre32]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but just wanted to ask a quick question that's been on my mind. Is it unethical or sinful (might not be the correct word) to attend church servies where women are pastors?

I read an article recently authored by a Baptist pastor who said that women shouldn't be ''leading men'' which is why women leading churches, is something Christians should avoid.

I'm not sure if there is any Scripture to back this up, could you help me out? Thanks.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but just wanted to ask a quick question that's been on my mind. Is it unethical or sinful (might not be the correct word) to attend church servies where women are pastors?

I read an article recently authored by a Baptist pastor who said that women shouldn't be ''leading men'' which is why women leading churches, is something Christians should avoid.

I'm not sure if there is any Scripture to back this up, could you help me out? Thanks.

Please note that Paul's "Muzzling Women" verses are all found in letters to the gentile areas which were oppressed by Diana/Artimis worship (Ephesus was the epicenter). Since WOMEN in that culture were the "ones in charge", and the SPIRITUALLY SUPERIOR ONES, then it makes perfect sense for them NOT to be teaching, or leading UNTIL they're mature enough in the Christian FAITH to AVOID the influence of their religious culture BEFORE they were saved, and became Christians. No such restrictions are seen in the Jerusalem Church which didn't have that cultural issue. The Paul point out to Timothy that ADAM was created first (since the culture in Ephesus taught that EVE was first) is an indication of the problem. The existence of the "Blessed virgin" in Catholic systematics indicates that Paul wasn't entirely successful in keeping it OUT of the Visible Churches.

The Assemblies of God point out that: Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." WE have therefore ALWAYS ordained female Pastors and Missionaries.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well, in your recounting, which appears as it appears, right or wrong,
today,
would not the same or similar problem result not because of immature in the Christian FAITH , per se, (or maybe?) , but because of , comparing with the d/a worship (Ephesus ws the epicenter) , because of today (for the last 150 years or so) women's lib movement?

i.e. as long as that divergence , like the d/a divergence, remains, those not mature in the faith would have to remain not teaching... ?

 

[topher694]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but just wanted to ask a quick question that's been on my mind. Is it unethical or sinful (might not be the correct word) to attend church servies where women are pastors?

I read an article recently authored by a Baptist pastor who said that women shouldn't be ''leading men'' which is why women leading churches, is something Christians should avoid.

I'm not sure if there is any Scripture to back this up, could you help me out? Thanks.

Unfortunately, this is one topic that tends to bring out some pretty nasty behavior at times, so be prepared.

Short answer, directly from a pastor, no it is not wrong for a woman to be a pastor or any other form of minister. Nor is it wrong for women to teach men.

The scriptures used to promote the idea of women not teaching men are few and can be explained another way. There are far more scriptures supporting and demonstrating the idea of women ministers than against it.

 

[Deidre32]

Unfortunately, this is one topic that tends to bring out some pretty nasty behavior at times, so be prepared.

Short answer, directly from a pastor, no it is not wrong for a woman to be a pastor or any other form of minister. Nor is it wrong for women to teach men.

The scriptures used to promote the idea of women to teaching men are few and can be explained another way. There are far more scriptures supporting and demonstrating the idea of women ministers than against it.

Thank you! I'm trying to follow the Bible in everyday life, and wondered if certain churches would be ''wrong'' to attend. In my heart of hearts, I believe if a pastor, regardless of gender, is following Scripture and not leading their congregation astray, then how could it be wrong? I realize that the Bible was written during different times, but sometimes I wonder what should be upheld and what shouldn't be, in terms of not going against what Jesus wants for us.

 

[Chrystal-J]

1 Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

1 Corinthians 14:34
The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

 

[topher694]

Thank you! I'm trying to follow the Bible in everyday life, and wondered if certain churches would be ''wrong'' to attend. In my heart of hearts, I believe if a pastor, regardless of gender, is following Scripture and not leading their congregation astray, then how could it be wrong? I realize that the Bible was written during different times, but sometimes I wonder what should be upheld and what shouldn't be, in terms of not going against what Jesus wants for us.

The very idea that this topic would be a hotly contended issue was predicted by God Himself in the beginning right after the fall in Genesis 3:16

To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”​

This isn't how it was supposed to be, nor how God designed it, nor desires it... it is a result of the fall. It is a perversion of submission and it is exactly what we see played out throughout history and even in some parts of the church today.

 

[Deidre32]

The very idea that this topic would be a hotly contended issue was predicted by God Himself in the beginning right after the fall in Genesis 3:16

To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”​

This isn't how it was supposed to be, how God designed it, or desires it... it is a result of the fall. It is a perversion of submission and it is exactly what we see played out throughout history and even in some parts of the church today.

True, so does this mean that God ''expects'' women to not lead due to the fall, even if it wasn't his intent? Are we to understand that passage to mean that women are forbidden to ever lead men in spiritual things?

 

[topher694]

True, so does this mean that God ''expects'' women to not lead due to the fall, even if it wasn't his intent? Are we to understand that passage to mean that women are forbidden to ever lead men in spiritual things?

No, it means it is a consequence and perversion due to the fall. What is right and what is wrong didn't change due to the fall. God simply knew men would behave badly... No surprise there. It also means that Jesus' sacrifice empowers us to overcome this along with everything else He accomplished on the cross.

 

[Jonaitis]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but just wanted to ask a quick question that's been on my mind. Is it unethical or sinful (might not be the correct word) to attend church servies where women are pastors?

I read an article recently authored by a Baptist pastor who said that women shouldn't be ''leading men'' which is why women leading churches, is something Christians should avoid.

I'm not sure if there is any Scripture to back this up, could you help me out? Thanks.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."​

- 1 Timothy 2:11-14
​

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."​

- 1 Corinthians 14:33-35​

 

[topher694]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but just wanted to ask a quick question that's been on my mind. Is it unethical or sinful (might not be the correct word) to attend church servies where women are pastors?

I read an article recently authored by a Baptist pastor who said that women shouldn't be ''leading men'' which is why women leading churches, is something Christians should avoid.

I'm not sure if there is any Scripture to back this up, could you help me out? Thanks.

So now you've already seen multiple times the 2 scriptures that are constantly used to justify all sorts of bad behavior. 1 Tim 2 & 1 Cor 14. What is always ignored is the 10, 20+ scriptures, old and new testament that endorse women in ministry AND/OR demonstrate it.

Ironically these 2 scriptures are often pointed to by people who don't adhere to what the verses just before or after them say themselves, yet they are eager to use them against women.

Both scriptures have explanations that are consistent with women serving in any form of ministry. Heck, Paul is not endorsing the treatment of women written in 1 Cor 14:34-35, he's rebuking it.

 

[hedrick]

As with many issues, there are different approaches to Scripture. Paul acknowledges female leaders several places. But there is one place clearly opposed, 1 Tim 2:12. (1 Cor 14:35 isn't about being a leader. It's about not making noise.)

So how do you deal with apparent disagreements? My approach is to start with the most common approach and see if there's a reason for the one exception. Perhaps, as someone suggested, there was a specific problem in the congregation 1 Tim addresses. Or perhaps the letter isn't from Paul, but from a more conservative next generation writer. The other approach is to say that 1 Tim is clearest, so we accept it and ignore or explain away the other evidence.

How do you decide? Personally, I prefer to take the usual Scriptural view and treat the exception as an exception. But in practice most people decide by what their church says. Conservative churches, pretty much by definition, normally stick with traditional interpretations, which here follow 1 Tim. Liberal churches are willing to change.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Thank you! I'm trying to follow the Bible in everyday life, and wondered if certain churches would be ''wrong'' to attend. In my heart of hearts, I believe if a pastor, regardless of gender, is following Scripture and not leading their congregation astray, then how could it be wrong? I realize that the Bible was written during different times, but sometimes I wonder what should be upheld and what shouldn't be, in terms of not going against what Jesus wants for us.

I am a woman with a very very strong desire since I was saved to share the Gospel with others..

I looked into, very seriously, these issues where concerns female pastors.. and I decided for myself it's not at all Biblical, and after speaking to women pastors, it's more political than spiritual..

I think women have a role in the church, an integral role - but it's not sheparding a congregation. I also believe if a woman does so and spends her time explaining away scripture instead of looking inward and following scripture obediently, then they are unworthy of leading and teaching me in the faith.

You will want to read books, and hear various pastors explanations from both sides - not just one. And them earnestly pray for guidance from God..

Don't let social customs decide right or wrong, allow God to do so...

 

[GodLovesCats]

People can talk all day about two verses in the entire New Testament discouraging women from teaching, speaking in church, or leading men, but they would have to explain the difference between women in the church and female school teachers.

Also, nothing anybody says about religious freedoms can convince me sexual discrimination for pastors is legal under the Equal Opportunity Employment Act. Wonen are just as qualified as men.

 

[Deidre32]

Yes, it's a bit confusing to me...but, I wonder if women aren't to be ''leaders'' of churches, but it is fine for us to preach, teach, and even be leaders of ministries, just not pastors that lead entire congregations?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

female school teachers

From history classes, apparently it was for purely financial reasons women were hired as teachers. They cost less than men at the time. The results were usually either mixed, or not good... only sometimes did the results (with the students) improve at all.

 

[GodLovesCats]

The Vineyard, which does not hire deacons or elders, has no problem with naming women senior pastors.

 

[Deidre32]

People can talk all day about two verses in the entire New Testament discouraging women from teaching, speaking in church, or leading men, but they would have to explain the difference between women in the church and female school teachers.

I guess it becomes a separate issue because teaching in the school system is more of a secular matter. Just like a woman becoming President of the US...I don't think Scripture speaks of women not being permitted to lead in government, etc.

Also, nothing anybody says about religious freedoms can convince me sexual discrimination for pastors is legal under the Equal Opportunity Employment Act. Wonen are just as qualified as men.

That's a good point. I wonder if that pertains to churches, equal opportunity employment act?

Part of my posting this thread comes from watching a live streaming Sunday church service recently whereby the pastor and associate pastor were both women. And the service was awesome. Jesus treated women equitably, so it seems odd that he would feel women were ill equipped to serve churches as leaders. Idk.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just did a quik search for that church/ what it teaches:
some might be okay, but this appears to be the overall gist >>

John Wimber/Vineyard - Deception in the Church

www.deceptioninthechurch.com › jwimber
(2) Testing The Fruit Of The Vineyard by John Goodwin, Pastor, Solid Rock .... strikingly familiar, and the false teaching above should be easily discernible.
Testing Fruits of the Vineyard - Deception in the Church

www.deceptioninthechurch.com › KJCVINEY
by J Goodwin - ‎Cited by 3 - ‎Related articles
John Wimber is Pastor of the Vineyard Fellowship in Anaheim, CA, and has been ... This is nothing more than Hinduism and its false teaching that everyone and ...
Vineyard Chruches - Cult Education Forum - Cult Education Institute

https://forum.culteducation.com › read
Oct 18, 2007 - 6 posts - ‎6 authors
I recommend not lump-summing all Vineyard churches into your ... The Vineyard's repetative mistake is it's openness to God doing ... The Bible tells us that division of "The Body" is a tool of the Devil just as false teaching is.
The Vineyard – Emergent Connection | m'kayla's korner

https://mkayla.wordpress.com › 2011/08/23 › the-vineyard-emergent-conn...
Aug 23, 2011 - If you attend a Vineyard Church, or if the names John Wimber, Dallas Willard, ... between these names, the Vineyard and the Emergent Church. ..... away, on either side, there is going to be more and more false teaching.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus treated women equitably, so it seems odd that he would feel women were ill equipped to serve churches as leaders. Idk.

He never, ever, went by feelings. He always obeys the Father.